2g bov leaking after 10~ psi or so...should I buy this crushed 1g bov?

[91rtstealth]

I just got a dsm (finally) and it's my first turbo car, so this is all pretty new to me.

I did a boost leak test recently and found that my stock 2g bov (96 talon, pretty much stock) leaks after about 10-12 psi. A lot of people recommended getting a 1g bov. I found one for 20 bucks on craigslist near me. It's already crushed the the guy selling it said it worked fine on his car with 22 psi. I plan on running about 16. Should I buy this or is there something else you guys would recommend. I'm not totally sure what factors to consider when buying a bov or bpv. Do you want one that will handle well beyond what you plan on running, or do you buy one that handles CLOSE to what you plan on running? I don't get it.

also, what are my options for installing it. So far I"ve found that I could buy a flange adaptor or buy Dave Brode's UIP. What do you think?

 

[romeen]

so with that said....I'm basically just looking for a "metal" evo BOV and i'm good to go?

I didn't realize the non MR's had plastic ones. The ones i'm looking at are metal, so any evo 8 and up METAL BOV should good to go?

Yes, that is correct.

 

[NHerron]

Hey Romeen I have a question about bov springs I've been pondering...

It makes sense to me that boost on both sides of the valve would keep it closed on its own with no spring but honestly, I think the spring may play a small role in that. Reason being is, main side of valve sees a big volume of x psi while the signal side sees the same x psi but the rubber line might not be able to supply that side as efficiently.

Or maybe its about surface area -main vs signal side diameters. Like hydraulics I'm referring to

 

[91rtstealth]

cool...thanks...I just wanted to make sure ALL of the metal BOVs would do what I needed. You guys are my heros. haha Thanks for helping me with all of this stuff. I posted another thread when I joined and no one responded. However, you guys keep making me want to do more stuff to my car than I intended. Damn you.. At first it was a cheap kind of beater/daily driver to replace my beater Stealth and now I want to do the bumper swaps, paint it, and all this other crap. haha. It's my first turbo AWD car (my stealths were R/T' non turbos) and it's fun as hell to drive. I was going to put out some money to turbo my Stealth but it just makes more sense to do it to one of these. They are cheaper and lighter. And SMALLER. I love ripping around in little cars. My Stealth feel massive sometimes and it's freaking FWD which sucks.

 

[romeen]

Nathan,
I've never really thought about it in depth. But I'm almost certain that the spring does play a role in keeping the valve closed. If only pressure on opposing sides was used then I would think that the valve might sort of float between fully closed and slightly open.

That's a good question regarding whether the larger volume of air pushing up on the valve will cause it to open even though the pressure on both sides is equal (no spring). I don't know the answer to that. I imagine the answer can be easily found. There's probably an equation that relates to that.

 

[91rtstealth]

hey quick question....I'm going to change my sway bar bushings today and I was wondering where exactly I should put the jack stands. If I put them under the control arms, will that make it hard for me to move the sway bar when I try to remove them? I know you sometimes have to jack up the opposite wheel to move the sway bar to make room to remove the bushing. If the jack stand is on the control arm, will I be able to do this?

 

[91rtstealth]

I just replaced all four sway bar bushings and man what a difference...especially for an easy and cheap install. The front ones were kind of a bi*** because the bolt holes wouldn't line up with the new bushings and I had to jack the opposite wheel up a little bit to move the sway bar around. The back ones literally took about 20-30 mins. I didn't even have to take the wheels off. So easy. No more clunking. I was surprised that it elimating all of the clunking noises. It sounded awful.

My local dealer just did the ball joint recall for me too. They actually replace the lower control arm instead of just pressing in new ball joints. AWESOME!!

 

[NHerron]

Hell yeah man!

I peeked around for a tutorial / tips on replacing some of that stuff but couldn't find much.

Glad you updated since now, I know for when I do my bushings

Yeah I heard it's possible to just press in a new ball joint, its great they just did the whole arm!

 

[romeen]

Glad to hear about your results with the bushings. And yeah, replacing a control arm as opposed to replacing just a ball joint is the way to go. I think it's fair to say that most guys go this route when they have a bad ball joint since the control arms really aren't expensive. You can get both lower control arms and the knuckle as a kit for $108.

EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts


One technical note to add regarding the metal EVO BOV. They are just a bit taller than the 2G valve. Keep an eye out for clearance between the valve and hood the first time you shut it. I haven't seen any hit the hood but it's just something to watch for. But I think you'll be fine.

 

[91rtstealth]

yeah. I did sway bar links on my escort and it was kind of a PITA because it was hard moving the sway bar around, but on the talon the end links move around on what looks like a ball/socket kind of thing so I was able to easily just move the bar out of the way, remove the old bushing, put the new one on, and then push the bar back. Real easy. Like I said, the front sucked a little but it wasn't too bad. Car rides in silence now, and it's tight around turns.

and yeah, I have no idea how to press in a ball joint. I only ever replace them on my escort which was easy. Each side only has one ball joint, and it connects with 2 bolts and a knuckle. I never messed with double wishbone suspension before.

I want to ask this before I get in trouble for doing it, but is there somewhere I can post a request for parts for my car? I didn't want to do it and get in trouble. I'd like to see if I can get my hands on some already red body panels for my car. I need one of the door panel skirts, and I'd like to possibly find a red 2gb eclipse front and rear bumper....among other things.

Glad to hear about your results with the bushings. And yeah, replacing a control arm as opposed to replacing just a ball joint is the way to go. I think it's fair to say that most guys go this route when they have a bad ball joint since the control arms really aren't expensive. You can get both lower control arms and the knuckle as a kit for $108.

EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts


One technical note to add regarding the metal EVO BOV. They are just a bit taller than the 2G valve. Keep an eye out for clearance between the valve and hood the first time you shut it. I haven't seen any hit the hood but it's just something to watch for. But I think you'll be fine.

yeah, I was going to say it does look a bit taller. I guess we shall see when it arrives next week.

 

[NHerron]

I want to ask this before I get in trouble for doing it, but is there somewhere I can post a request for parts for my car? I didn't want to do it and get in trouble. I'd like to see if I can get my hands on some already red body panels for my car. I need one of the door panel skirts, and I'd like to possibly find a red 2gb eclipse front and rear bumper....among other things.

You mean a "Want To Buy" add, correct? I see new WTB adds at least every week, so I don't see a problem there. Just go to the classifieds here and post "WTB ...X..." in the subject. I don't know about probationary members though, but then again you're only 23 more GOOD posts away from being 'proven' member anyway

yeah, I was going to say it does look a bit taller. I guess we shall see when it arrives next week.

Yeah that would be cool to get an update, I've got a 2G Turbo, so I'm interested!

 

[91rtstealth]

yeah, I was wondering how you get out of this probationary stage. I didn't know how that worked so yeah, I'll check into posting over there. Thanks


and yeah, I will def give ya'll an update. I only see that car 1-2 days a week. I live in Philly and keep the car at my parents up in the Poconos. I didn't even think about whether it would clear the hood or not. Has anyone else out there ever used an EVO BOV on their car?

I think I'm going to get an air fuel gauge now. I sold something on ebay, so my a well spend the money on my new money pit, the Talon. haha. Can someone tell me if our cars have wideband or narrowband o2 sensors? I really don't understand what the difference between a wideband and narrow band gauge is. I read some stuff, it sounds greek to me..haha..

 

[romeen]

yeah, I was wondering how you get out of this probationary stage. I didn't know how that worked so yeah, I'll check into posting over there. Thanks

To get promoted from Probationary Member to Proven Member you need to contribute at least 30 useful posts in the Newbie or Maintenance forums and 30 days must have passed since you registered. Once this happens you will automatically be moved up the day after these requirements are met.

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I didn't even think about whether it would clear the hood or not. Has anyone else out there ever used an EVO BOV on their car?

I wouldn't worry about this. The few I've seen (including my own) haven't had any issues. I haven't even read of anyone having an issue. Nonetheless, I thought it should be mentioned since the EVO valve is indeed a bit taller. If there is an issue there are easy ways to solve it but I won't get into them right now because I honestly think you'll be just fine.

 

[NHerron]

Hey Romeen I have a question about bov springs I've been pondering...

It makes sense to me that boost on both sides of the valve would keep it closed on its own with no spring but honestly, I think the spring may play a small role in that. Reason being is, main side of valve sees a big volume of x psi while the signal side sees the same x psi but the rubber line might not be able to supply that side as efficiently.

Or maybe its about surface area -main vs signal side diameters. Like hydraulics I'm referring to

I actually did some digging and found my answer, I wrote in conjunction with one of my first posts on this thread, check it out in the bold
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...hould-i-buy-crushed-1g-bov.html#post152931900

 

[91rtstealth]

I got my EVO BOV this week and installed it. Fit perfect and installed in about 5 minutes. Sounds a little different and I can definitely notice a difference. The power delivery is different and it pulls stronger (no more leaking boost). I also replaced my fuel injector orings and seals and this did actually make a BIG noticeable difference. I questioned earlier in this threat whether it would make a big difference and it certainly did. My car pulls real strong now and the power doesn't feel so spikey. So yeah, boost leak at the fuel seals will make a noticeable difference in power. Now I have just one last boost leak and it's the BISS screw. How do I fix that?


other things I'd like to note:
I did a boost leak test after all of this: no more leaking from the new BOV, no more leaking from the fuel injector seals, the BISS screw leak still remains, but the system did hold 15-20 psi for maybe a good half a minute. What I did notice that there was a bubbling sound coming from inside the the engine. I could really hear it when I opened the oil filler cap. My car does burn oil at idle and at startup, so I'm pretty sure it needs valve seals. This could cause this, right? any ideas?

oh also. I did notice that I'm now getting about 12 psi of boost instead fo 10-11ish. However, at some points the gauge will spike up to 15 quickly and then drop back down to 11-12. Is that normal?

 

[91rtstealth]

ok, I replaced my BISS o-ring with a number 5 o ring from home depot, so my boost leaks should be all good to go. However, if you look above you'll read about my "bubbling sound" that is a mystery to me.


but anyways I'm wondering if this EVO BOV was the right way to go? Seems like ever since I put it on my boost has been spiking. Is that normal? I was driving it last night (and it was cold out, this may make a difference) and at one point it spiked to 16psi but then drops down to 11-12ish psi. It only does it if I hammer the throttle in first or second. Typically the boost just goes to about 11-12 and tapers off, but if I hammer the throttle in first (especially 1st) or second it will spike up to around 15. What causes this....and is boost spike/compressor surge the same thing? I'm not sure what to call this. My concern is that if I get an MBC and up to the boost to 15-16 that it will spike to 20 or something dangerous. Do you think it's the BOV?

Thanks in advance

 

[romeen]

For the "bubbling" under the oil cap sound, it's most likely a leaking PCV valve although other things like a bad turbo seal or piston rings can also cause it. To check, unscrew the PCV valve from the valve cover but leave it hooked up to the vacuum line from the IM. Do a boost leak test and check for air leaking out of the valve (out through the small end of the valve). A lot of guys say to just blow through it but I've seen many valves that held tight when blowing through it but leaked at higher pressures that your lungs simply can't generate. Replacing it with a new oem valve might solve the issue but even this doesn't always work. One option is an inline plastic check valve. Here's a good read regarding this.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/366890-4g63t-pcv-system.html

Search for some info on boost spike. I'm a little pressed for time tonight but let me know if you're not able to find answers to your question. Are you sure that your waste gate actuator is not an aftermarket or modified one?

 

[Sir Joke]

either set up works for quite awhile. Evo one is pretty sweet though and seems more durable.

 

[91rtstealth]

I'm not sure if mine is aftermarket or modified. Here's two pics. Not sure if this will help or not. I have no idea.

I haven't checked my PCV yet. I'll check it out next time I'm home.

 

[romeen]

That looks like a stock WGA. But IIRC, my old Hahn upgraded actuator looked stock but had a stiffer spring inside. I'm not sure if there is something externally that would identify it as a stock appearing modified one.

Test the PCV valve the way I mentioned previously.

I'm not sure what might be causing your boost spike. But if you think that it could be related to the BOV then it's super easy to put the stock one back on to see if that resolves the spike. That's one of the benefits of using the EVO valve. It's as easy as it gets to remove/install and you don't have to mess with a gasket.

 

[91rtstealth]

That looks like a stock WGA. But IIRC, my old Hahn upgraded actuator looked stock but had a stiffer spring inside. I'm not sure if there is something externally that would identify it as a stock appearing modified one.

Test the PCV valve the way I mentioned previously.

I'm not sure what might be causing your boost spike. But if you think that it could be related to the BOV then it's super easy to put the stock one back on to see if that resolves the spike. That's one of the benefits of using the EVO valve. It's as easy as it gets to remove/install and you don't have to mess with a gasket.

I'm assuming it's stock. When my friend bought this car it was stock totally stock. Had the stock air box and all that stuff. I'm going to check the PCV when I get a chance. Hopefully next week. If that's leaking, which it most likely is, that may be the final leak that would generate a boost spike. I think? haha.

I could put the stock BOV back on, but it was faulty to begin with. It leaks after 10-11 psi so I don't know if it would help me gather any useful info.

 

[91rtstealth]

Ok I just checked the PVC valve. Here is the weird thing. I took the stock one off and tried blowing through it for the hell of it. I was able to blow through if I tried real hard so I went down to advance auto and bought another one. I was going to install it and do a boost leak check as you had mentioned but it was able to blow through this new piece of crap with easee. I put the stock one back on and did a boost leak check and oddly enough no air came through the stock one????

Also. There is still bubbling sounds coming from inside the engine. So the boost leak is somewhere within.

I took the Pcv valve off again and I can blow through it if the small end is facing upwards but I can't if it's facing down. Is that normal? I can also shake both of them and hear something moving back and forth. I've never replaced one so I don't know of this is normal.

 

[NHerron]

Sounds like your stock PCV was good is the first place
From what I read, auto parts stores replacement PCV's are horrible and should never be bought. Go OEM on this part
PCV's are basically a one way check valve, that's why you got the results you did
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...-during-boost-leak-test-my-pcv-valve-bad.html

You will always hear air from the oil cap during a boost leak test but the bubbling? Only thing I can come up with is the compressor seal on turbo being bad and air leaking past. Or a HG but I doubt it. Maybe the seals relate to your boost spike as well but can't say for sure

Try taking turbo out of the boost leak test and see if the bubbling is gone
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/305825-boost-leak-test-bubbling-sound.html

 

[91rtstealth]

I'm still confused on why I can blow through it when I tilt it upwards and I can't when I face the threaded end down. Is that normal? I would assume you shouldn't be able to blow through it in that direction at all?

 

[NHerron]

More than likely, the check valve inside weighs enough so your blowing efforts cannot effectivly move the valve to seal. If that makes sense. But who cares, the valve is installed horizontally, not vertically

If it doesn't leak boost during a boost leak test, it's okay