16G + 450cc's + 101octane = what?

[SlowImport]

I was thinking of getting a 16G for my 94 Talon to get a little more power not much but just a little more. I run 101 octane everywhere I go so I was wondering if the 450cc(stock) injectors would be okay. And about how much PSI I would be able to run.

Other mods I have are:
WEB Cams (stage 1)
SSautochrome o2 housing
Buschur Racing 2.5" DP
3" thermal exhuast
K&N filter
MBC
motor mounts
Walbro 255

I want to achieve 110 with a daily driver. Is it possible with out any fuel control?
what do you guys think,
Josh

 

[1993eclipseGS]

You need to log the car. No one can tell you how much boost you can run.

 

[tstkl]

by 110 do you mean 110 traps? those cams are going to allow you to flow more air obviously, but remember that at 15 psi, both the 14b and the evoIII 16g flow 400 cfm, so if you can run 15 psi on your 14b, you can run 15 psi on a 16g. At higher boost the 16g will start to outflow the 14b though. I currently am at a little over 20 psi on my 14b with like 85% idc's on 450cc injectors with a base fuel pressure of 46 psi. I would like to lean it out more, but since all I have to tune with is the maft, Im getting really advanced timing since Im pulling so much aircount out, so I knock either way. I think with a 255 on 101 octane you should be able to run high teens with few problems, but like 1993eclipsegs said, log your knock count and idc and airflow and fuel trims, and you can find out exactly how much boost you can run. Don't just slam it up to 18 psi because I said high teens, Start at like 12-13 psi and work your way up.

I want to achieve 110 with a daily driver. Is it possible with out any fuel control?
what do you guys think,
Josh

if you are talking about traps, is it possible? yes. Is that a smart thing to do? probably not.

 

[Ultimatedsm]

by 110 do you mean 110 traps? those cams are going to allow you to flow more air obviously, but remember that at 15 psi, both the 14b and the evoIII 16g flow 400 cfm, so if you can run 15 psi on your 14b, you can run 15 psi on a 16g. At higher boost the 16g will start to outflow the 14b though. I currently am at a little over 20 psi on my 14b with like 85% idc's on 450cc injectors with a base fuel pressure of 46 psi. I would like to lean it out more, but since all I have to tune with is the maft, Im getting really advanced timing since Im pulling so much aircount out, so I knock either way. I think with a 255 on 101 octane you should be able to run high teens with few problems, but like 1993eclipsegs said, log your knock count and idc and airflow and fuel trims, and you can find out exactly how much boost you can run. Don't just slam it up to 18 psi because I said high teens, Start at like 12-13 psi and work your way up.



if you are talking about traps, is it possible? yes. Is that a smart thing to do? probably not.

I have a correction for you my friend. The BIG 16G flows 550 CFM so the EVOIII 16g is more like 560-570 CFM compared to the 14B's 405CFM. To be honest, 14PSI is the max you should run on those 450cc injectors regardless of what type of gas. On a 14B sure you can boost 18 psi with 94 or higher octane fuel, but the EVOIII 16g flows over 150 CFM more, not worth the risk. You won't blow the motor right away, but you will start seeing your compression dropping due to the really hot conditions with the lean mixture on your rings.

Trapping 110 MPH with stock injectors and a full weight car? I really doubt it, get some 650cc fuel injectors in there, then its possible. That way you can boost 20-22 psi.

 

[tstkl]

I have a correction for you my friend. The BIG 16G flows 550 CFM so the EVOIII 16g is more like 560-570 CFM compared to the 14B's 405CFM. To be honest, 14PSI is the max you should run on those 450cc injectors regardless of what type of gas. On a 14B sure you can boost 18 psi with 94 or higher octane fuel, but the EVOIII 16g flows over 150 CFM more, not worth the risk. You won't blow the motor right away, but you will start seeing your compression dropping due to the really hot conditions with the lean mixture on your rings.

Trapping 110 MPH with stock injectors and a full weight car? I really doubt it, get some 650cc fuel injectors in there, then its possible. That way you can boost 20-22 psi.

and that is why I said flows the same at 15psi. The peak cfm's are different, but the flow at 15 psi is the same.

 

[94Jettameowpsst]

i've ran 21 psi on my evo 3's, 110 and 255 pump. Just log it.....every car is different.

 

[2deep]

and that is why I said flows the same at 15psi. The peak cfm's are different, but the flow at 15 psi is the same.

 

[Mugsy]

get 550cc injectors, i had a big16g and i really couldn't tell that big of a diff. but once i got 550's in there, huge difference, but you will need some kind of a/f control i just use a s-afc

 

[Ultimatedsm]

and that is why I said flows the same at 15psi. The peak cfm's are different, but the flow at 15 psi is the same.

Your kidding me right? Your saying something like the EVOIII 16g with a larger compresser wheel will flow the same as the 14B with a smaller compressor wheel?? The EVOIII 16G will be pushing more CFM at the same boost pressure meaning you will be running leaner at the same boost pressure.

You can run 20 psi on 450CC injectors with some kind of race gas and a walbro 255LPH but your engine won't last long thats for sure. It won't be an instant BOOM, it will be more like "damn it what happend to my nice compression test results a few months earlier, they are 20 PSI less across the board!" Thats just an example. However, if you autocross your car or road race it, it won't last more then 3-4 minutes thats for sure.

So do not listen to the people that say "Yes at 15 psi the EVOIII and the 14B flow the same" That is misinformation and please do not follow by that. I have had my DSM for 6 years now and I know them inside out and electronically as well. You can max out 650cc injectors with the EVOIII 16g at 20 psi on pump, race gas will give you a little more room to play because it burns slower so it won't detonate or pre-ignite, imagine what your 450cc's will be doing, they will be basically stuck open and won't even pulse like how injectors are suppose to. Even with 110 Octane fuel, you will hit over 100% duty cycle with 450cc injectors at 20 psi and I highly recommend getting some sort of injectors. Read my earlier post and you will know what I recommend.

Thank you for your time.

- Ultimatedsm

 

[tstkl]

DUDE, AT 15 PSI. AT 15 PSI. AT 15 PSI.

god damn when will you listen. THE TURBOS FLOW THE SAME AT 15 PSI. WHOO HOOO its a bigger compressor wheel, think about it, when you slap on a huge ass turbo, what do most people say? This turbo should really be used in the x psi + range. The reason why they say that is because if your going to push a lower psi than that with that turbo, it would be more efficent to use a smaller turbo. Not only because spool would be faster, but because a smaller turbo can flow more air at lower psi's than a larger turbo at low psi's. Its not rocket science, the wheel was designed to flow more air at higher pressure ratios, so it does flow more air AT HIGHER PRESSURE RATIOS.

why is this significant?
if he can run 15 psi on his 14b, he can run 15 psi on his evoIII.

 

[GSX_RCR]

god damn when will you listen. THE TURBOS FLOW THE SAME AT 15 PSI. WHOO HOOO its a bigger compressor wheel

You have obviously never looked at a compressor map.

 

[tstkl]

Im not even going to bother replying to that, or any other posts posted in this thread. someone tell the mods we need to have an ignore this thread function put in right under subscriptions. bye

 

[autronicDSM]

Shouldn't you be in school right now?

 

[Ultimatedsm]

Alright I am going to give this guy a Compressor Map. You tell me at 15 psi if the 14B flows the same as the 16g.

http://www.stealth316.com/2-3s-cfm-maps.htm

Yes every turbo has there more efficent boost pressure, but at 15 psi, both turbos are in there efficency. If you have a 60-2 Trim turbo boosting at 15 psi, it won't be very efficent until you boost 25-30 psi. Anyway, check it out.

 

[suicidal2af]

Alright I am going to give this guy a Compressor Map. You tell me at 15 psi if the 14B flows the same as the 16g.

http://www.stealth316.com/2-3s-cfm-maps.htm

Yes every turbo has there more efficent boost pressure, but at 15 psi, both turbos are in there efficency. If you have a 60-2 Trim turbo boosting at 15 psi, it won't be very efficent until you boost 25-30 psi. Anyway, check it out.

Without plotting points on the compressor map, just looking at one is useless. Just linking to those shows us absolutely nothing -- please note that at 15psi, which is a PR of about 1.9, a 16g will flow anywhere from 150 to 520cfm and the 14b will flow anywhere from 120-400cfm. There's quite a bit of intersection there. You can't just look at the farthest right point on a compressor map and say "Yep, that's what it's flowing." That's not how it works.

That said, comparing a 16g and a 14b, the 16g is well into its efficiency range at 15psi whereas the 14b is starting to turn into a blowdrier. The 16G is going to make more power in that range.