Starting issues - No / Doesn't / Won't Start - MERGED

[prodsm]

All "my car won't start" discussion threads are merged HERE. We've basically made it easier for those who insist upon not searching by grouping together all threads from those with similar issues so you can just scroll through and see some possible solutions. To search for info within this thread, use the "Search This Thread" feature in the black bar about 3" above what you're reading right now.

Could be anything from a loose battery terminal to internal engine damage, and literally everything in between which may involve the electrical, fuel, and ignition system...possibly even something that you screwed up while working on the car yourself. While it's unlikely we're going to diagnose and solve your problem over the internet, feel free to discuss any possible solutions.



I live in Canada and right now its not very warm out, about -30c
my car does not have a block heater too keep it warm.

I tryed to start my car this morning and it wouldent start, ive had this problem before but this time, the car doesnt crank at all it just makes a sound that sounds like an electric drill.

Whats wrong.

Thanks

 

[Slippi84]

Where is this connector your talkin about? Sounds like the theme of this thread but I too am having the same problem. Hooked up a noid light no signal but I have spark in all four cylinders and my ecu just got back from dsmlink where it was checked and rechecked by dave himself. I went even one farther and checked a million other things already such as transistor pack resistor pack compression CAS coil pack plugs wires you neame it. I am leaning toward a connector being wrong cause the ecu worked fine as Dave from dsmlink put it in his own car and drive with it. I have a nother post where I took some pictures of connectors and I had one or two where I wasn't 100% sure if they were hooked up right. I will post a link to it and see if it helps out anyone on here.


http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231246

 

[Slippi84]

I have 12v on both sides of my injector and my mpi relay is workin and my ecu is good along with my fuse and my injectors still aren't opening

 

[burntheblobs]

Ok guys, I just did a headgasket and fuel system upgrade on my car. The problem is, when I tried to start the car, it cranked over but it didnt start. I think it's a fuel problem because I upgraded fuel pumps and I didn't hear a fuel pump when I put the car in the "On" position. Also, when I just cracked open the fuel line by the fuel pump to take out the fuel pump and make sure I wired it correctly, no fuel came out at all. The only other thing I can think of would be no spark. When I was putting the coil connector back in, a plastic peice was impeding the connector (even though I'm pretty sure it should have lined up with it) and the plastic peice broke off. Any suggestions?

 

[15poundsoffun]

ok if you have the fuel pump still hooked up take the fuel line off at the fuel rail wear some glasses ponit the hose away from everything and have some one turn the car on then off seen if your geting fuel IT WILL COME FLYING ITS ASS OFF BUT JUST BE SURE TO HAVE TWO PEOPLE ONE TO HOLD THE LINE if notthing comes out then you know your not getting any fuel or if you want to pull your plugs and see if there fuel on them whatever is easyier for you

 

[Locke]

Or, you could purchase a fuel pressure gauge and install it before the rail.

Since you removed the head, you probably just forgot (hopefully) to plug something in.

Check for voltage at the fuel pump.
Check for spark (you should do this anyways when you have a no start situation) if you are not getting spark, first check for voltage at the coil pack.
If the pump runs and you are getting pressure, check that the injectors are getting a signal (noid light)

Cam and crank sensors are coming up on the list of things to check..

 

[dr1665]

Andy! Or should I call you Benedict?

If you're not getting fuel, then you probably didn't get something connected right. When my Galant wouldn't start, we about lost our minds before I reached down to double check that the coil and transducer-thing were plugged in. I pushed on one of the connectors and got a nice click. Bingo. Car fired right up after that. Double check your connections.

 

[burntheblobs]

Andy! Or should I call you Benedict?

If you're not getting fuel, then you probably didn't get something connected right. When my Galant wouldn't start, we about lost our minds before I reached down to double check that the coil and transducer-thing were plugged in. I pushed on one of the connectors and got a nice click. Bingo. Car fired right up after that. Double check your connections.

Uh-oh, Driggs found me on tuners. I just checked the fuel pump relay via pocketlogger and it clicked so thats not the problem. Also, my MFI fuse is good so thats another thing ruled out. Im going to try all of your suggestions tomorrow.

By the way Brian, it only took me about 10 hours to do that headgasket. Much improvement over my 50 hour timing belt/front cover job I did last year =P.

 

[burntheblobs]

It's definitely the fuel pump. When I cracked open the fuel line NO fuel came out, and when I turned the key to the On position and clutch in, I heard no fuel pump. The relay near the ECU is fine, the relay near the fuel pump is fine, and the MPI fuse is good. The Fuel pump is brand new. What else am I missing? I need to get this worthless peice of shit out of the garage because I'm going back to school in a few days. Any suggestions fast?

 

[t4spyder]

I am having the same type of problem. I am getting spark to all four cylinders, but am only getting gas to cylinder 1 and 2. A noid light shows no pulse on 3 and 4. I do have a question though. I was reading that the 2g ecu and safc combo is not very effective for injectors larger than 650cc. Is it possible that my 780's are shorting out the ecu?

Here is a list of what I have.
Motor has been rebuilt from the bottom up.
Bored 30 over
new crank
crower rods
arias forged pistons
ferrera valves with 3 angle valve job
balance shaft removed
780cc fuel injectors
Aeromotive afpr
Turbonetics t4 turbo
tubular manifold
50mm jun wastegate
50mm hks bov
safc 1
gm maf and maft
Aem Wideband o2

I have been working on this project for several years in my spare time and would greatly appreciate any help. Thanks guys.

 

[t4spyder]

Will it cause the caps to leak? My ECU has some green stuff on the bottom of the board. I need to know if it is safe to get a eprom ecu and hook it up with the 780's. Also do you have to do anything to modify the eprom for my car?

 

[DSM nOOb]

I've tried searching and I have yet to come upon a problem quite like mine.

Here's the deal. I just finished rebuilding my motor and got it all installed and wired. First my car wouldn't crank over at all. I figured out that problem now my car cranks over but there is no spark and when the car is turned on but not started the fuel pump does not prime the lines, hwever when I do try to crank it, my fuel preasure gauge reads 40 psi.

Occasionally after trying the start the motor random popping and clicking noises come from the area around the abs box. It sounds like it was coming from the little small silver cylnder that has ring terminals on the top.

As for the no spark i checked every single component that would stop spark from coming using resistance tests and a multimeter and they all checked out. the only thing i didnt check was the ecu. Also when i used my timing light it showed nothing on either coil packs.

I also still can't explain why my fuel pump doesnt prime but it turns on when it cranks. I can also manually turn on the pump with the check connector.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

 

[steve]

Please fix your profile. We need to know what car you have.

What makes you think the fuel pump should be priming when you turn the ignition on?

 

[DSM nOOb]

sorry, it's a '95 tsi awd. It has always turned on when the ignition turns to on since I've owned the car.

 

[luv2rallye]

Unless someone changed the wiring, the FP on all dsm's (except 2gNT) only runs while engine is running or cranking - not with key on and engine not running (safety issue).

 

[DSM nOOb]

Well maybe it doesnt I thought it did but i may be wrong its been over 6 months since I last drove it. However, I'm still totaly confused about the no spark.

 

[luv2rallye]

Spark gets generated on a 2g (1g is similiar) using the following:

- For a quick go/no go test of all ignition components before the coil: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/pro...k-cam-angle-sensor-testing.html#post151297987

- Coil test: Ignition problem - DSM Forums

- PT: Power transistor test (aka: ignitor): How to test the power transistors - DSM Forums
(Note: 2gNT doesn't have power transistors)

- CAS: Cam angle sensor test: One coil pack not firing, suggestions? - Page 2 - DSM Forums OR http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/wont-start-new-head.379677/#post-152302942. (Note: CAS may have a slightly different voltage range on pin 2 for 95-96 dsm (since it uses a different type of sensor than the 97-99 and it's signal is inverted) but it should be close).

Note: CAS vs CPS terminology confusion on these forums, Mitsubishi, aftermarket auto manuals, and auto stores: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/272874-oh-god-code-0340-a.html#post151302110

- CPS: Crank position sensor test (note 1g does not have a CPS): Same as cam angle sensor except pin 2 is blue/white and it's crank voltage is 0.4-4.0V (while idling it's 1.5-2.5V): http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/wont-start-new-head.379677/#post-152302942.

- ECU test: Check if capacitors inside are leaking or a rotten egg/fishy smell is present. Check if any components look burnt. Check if any board foil path traces are open or burnt. Lastly swap with known good one. Typical failing components: Troubleshooting fried ECU components - DSM Forums

- Spark plugs: Appearance: Spark Plug Diagnosis or http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/spkplghnbook.htm#We, FAQ: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/frequently-answered-dsm-questions/233421-spark-plug-faq.html. Test by removing each plug, reattaching the spark plug cable, then hold/clamp the plug's outer thread casing against the head (ground) while cranking engine (if holding plug, wear rubber gloves and insulated shoes (don't stand in water)). Make sure there is spark and it's not weak. When done also check plug for cracked insulation or damaged electrodes.

- Spark plug cable test: Measure resistance of each end to end while bending them all over (to check for an open). Resistance should be 22k ohms max on a 2g (11k on 1g). If engine idles, wearing rubber gloves and insulated shoes (don't stand in water) you may first want to disconnect, one at a time, each of the spark plug cables while engine is idling. If the engine performance does not change, check that cables resistance and the spark plug itself. You can also check for spark jumping to ground from cable or coil by watching them in the dark while racing engine.

- Filter capacitor: The filter capacitor sharpens the coil's input pulse and reduces input pulse ringing both of which enhance the coil's output. It also reduces electrical static generated by the coil and alternator on the +12v line. It rarely fails but has been known to happen. Sometimes it intermittently fails (partially shorts) with temperature which can severely affect spark. Other times it just gets old and loses it's capacitance which usually shows up as increased static in the radio. The filter capacitor is a small cylindrical tin can bolted to intake manifold driver's side with 1 wire coming out of it (case must be bolted to something that is grounded, like intake manifold, for it to work). You can check it by just unplugging it and noticing effect (especially if it is failing with temperature). Your engine should still run without it plugged in. But if the engine runs without it but not with it plugged in, you have a shorting capacitor.

- Wiring between all the above. For short testing: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/finding-a-short-partial-short-or-battery-drain.179481/#post-1496998.

 

[DSM nOOb]

does it make sense that there is no results on the secondary test on either coil when the primary test shows its ok?

 

[turbodad]

Noob, you are correct. There should be a 3-4 sec. fuel prime when you first turn on the ign.
Could there be an ECU (computer) problem? The fuel relay is in under the console, by the ECU. This relay goes 'clicky' when the ECU can't ground it properly. This results in all sorts of starting prob's.

 

[DSM nOOb]

thank god im not crazy.... The only place clicking was coming from was up by the abs box area but that stopped doing that.

 

[luv2rallye]

does it make sense that there is no results on the secondary test on either coil when the primary test shows its ok?

No - are you sure you're measuring the secondary resistance correctly? You must measure from cyl 1 secondary (where spark plug cable plugs in) to cyl 4 secondary. Should be between 11.3k-15.3k ohms. Then do again for cyl 2 secondary to cyl 3 secondary. The sure test is to clamp a spark plug to the engine, connect it, crank, and watch the intensity of the spark (if any).

 

[luv2rallye]

Noob, you are correct. There should be a 3-4 sec. fuel prime when you first turn on the ign.

The fuel in the fuel rail can stay pressurized for hours (or even days) after the engine is turned off which is why the car normally has gas right away upon starting. NO factory dsm (except 2gNT) EVER had the fuel pump run with the key ON but engine not turning (safety issue for crashes, etc). Turbodad if yours does then someone rewired it or changed it somehow.

 

[Locke]

The fuel in the fuel rail can stay pressurized for hours (or even days) after the engine is turned off which is why the car normally has gas right away upon starting. NO factory dsm EVER had the fuel pump run with the key ON but engine not turning (safety issue for crashes, etc). Turbodad if yours does then someone rewired it or changed it somehow.

My fuel pump primes when I turn the key on, with engine off. Bzzzzzt. Click. It holds it's prime for as long as I have tested it. (about 5min, rock steady.) It has never concerned me, all of my other cars have done the same thing, including my current '07 Focus.

I do have a 2gnt, though.

 

[steve]

I do have a 2gnt, though.

As you already know, completely different animal.

 

[Locke]

Hmmm. I never knew the factory turbo-cars weren't supposed to prime themselves before start. Come to think of it, I never heard my 1g prime before start. I never heard the pump run at all. Very quiet fuel pump, it had.

Disregard the interjection, as I now know better.

 

[luv2rallye]

Ok I stand corrected on the 2gNT. Must, once again, be a Chysler thing. I admit I was thinking of turbo dsm's. So can anyone who has one verify that the 1gNT primes or not? Since it's not a Chysler I would think it doesn't but I've been wrong before.