What is a "Two-step" and timing retarder??

[Rice Over Wheat]

I hope someone can shed some light on this. The muffler shop I go to is run by a guy who has several 10 sec cars and is pretty knowledgable about tuning in general, imports and domestics. He was checking out my car today and suggested that since I'm an auto with some serious boost delay at launch even when brake torqueing ever since I got the 272 cams, I should get a "two step" and timing retarder. He said something about each cylinder firing in order or something like that and how this is what lots of people do at the track to launch hard on an AT. Anyone have a better explanation as to what he's talking about?

 

[ypnas777]

You don't need that. If your on the stock T-25 you can build full boost by brake torquing. If you ever upgrade to a large turbo and can't build boost anymore then just upgrade to a restalled torque converter and your all set.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Christ man, read the post and check profiles before responding.

Anyone know what the "two step" mod for staging at the track is?

 

[CanadianTSi]

You have DSMLink correct? You already have a two step aka stutter box...

 

[ypnas777]

The stutterbox is for manual cars. If you have a high stall converter than that is all you need to stage your car. Stop acting like a wiseass. Press the brakes as hard as you can then press the gas and you should build plently of boost to roast the tires on your fwd. If you can't then something is wrong

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

You have DSMLink correct? You already have a two step aka stutter box...

Well if that's the same thing, then I guess that answers part of my question. I will have to look into why this guy was suggesting this based on the results of other autos at the track though.

The stutterbox is for manual cars. If you have a high stall converter than that is all you need to stage your car. Stop acting like a wiseass. Press the brakes as hard as you can then press the gas and you should build plently of boost to roast the tires on your fwd. If you can't then something is wrong

1) I have a T28, not a T25 like you first posted. 2) I have a fully built auto with all the goods, so of course I know all about brake torqueing. Therefore, your entire first post was irrelevent in advice and content. That was my point.

EDIT: Ok, I was irritable today due to running over someone's muffler and nearly destroying my whole exhaust system and having to order a new one. But still man, check my mods. I didn't just fall off the dsm truck!

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Ok, I found out what a two-step is. It does sound pretty interesting and useful in conjunction with the high stall converter.

two-step A two-step is an electrical ignition device that will "cut out" cylinders at random, after the engine rpm tries to exceed a certain point. This is basically a rev-limiter. The driver can set the low-side rpm of the two-step to be his launch rpm. With this, the driver can activate the two-step, and press the gas to the floor without over-revving the engine. You can recognize a two-step by the uneven Pop-Pop-Pop of the motor. Release the two-step, and the motor is unleashed, the throttle already wide open.

http://www.staginglight.com/guide/defns.html

These are also interesting as they are used in conjunction with a two-step:

transbrake A transbrake is a device which allows a car to remain stationary even when the motor is under power. It works by placing the transmission in 1st gear and Reverse at the same time. Since both gears have the same ratio, but it opposite directions, the car cannot move. The transbrake can be released with a button, which releases the Reverse gear. Although they make for powerful launches, transbrakes can be hard on transmissions.

delay box The "box", as it is usually called is an electronic device to aid the driver. The driver can dial a number into the box, called the delay. Usually used in conjunction with a transmission brake and two-step, the driver can hold down a button mounted on his steering wheel, activating the transbrake and two step, and then let go of the button the instant he sees the "first flash" of amber from the first bulb. The delay box will then count the thousandths of a second dictated by the driver, and then release the transbrake and two-step.

The driver can adjust his reaction times by changing the number on the delay box. The theory is that a driver instinctively reacting to an initial signal (the first amber) will be quicker and more consistent than a driver that must train himself to wait for the third amber. This is indeed often the case, making the box a controversial (but legal) tool in many classes.

 

[scottsee]

Do you mean Studderbox and Antilag?

 

[ypnas777]

I've seen people with automatic ask if they could set their studderbox at the same rpm as their converter's stall speed and launch that way and people have always said no. They suggest to just brake torque.

 

[silver eclipse]

The stutter box in dsmlink is controlled via the clutch pedal. so of course like stated before that wont work on an auto.
The two-step can be hooked to a switch, it can work on your application as far as I know. The trans brake is probly your best bet. Its is hooked to a switch on the steering wheel and will allow you to desingage it when you want to leave. When it is ingaged the motor will rev up to just about what ever you want.
-Chad

 

[Locke]

Here is an ongoing thread about 2 step limiters and how people are running them.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=158905

Hope this helps you.

 

[fwdeclipse]

The mechanic was also refering to antilag. In dsmlink you can select this and it retards the timing like crazy. There was a local guy here with a sc61 and with antilag on at the line he could make 25psi. It sounds pretty bad ass to.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Thanks for all the replies!

Ok, that makes a lot more sense now that I know two-step and stutterbox is like the same thing. Guess I'd need a different solution though if stutterbox in dsmlink works off a clutch. I wonder if the MSD DIS 2 would work with an auto for this purpose... However, I just ordered that manumatic box (rmt mod) from the guy making them on ebay, so that'll help a ton. I'll definately be looking into the transbrake, antilag, and some kind of stutterbox for autos though.