talon idle problem, please respond

[90-DSM-TSI-AWD]

i was lookin at a talon to buy and it makes this noise... also it only makes this noise when it is in neutral or not in gear. Tell me what you think it is... Thanks


http://videos.streetfire.net/video/493a6b5a-c275-45aa-8c7c-99d3010aa239.htm

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/231ba91a-ffd0-4f01-ab21-99d3010a2178.htm

check them out please, and tell me what you think it is.

Thanks, Matt

 

[crensinivon]

Not so sure about the first but is the fan spinning in the second one?

 

[90-DSM-TSI-AWD]

im not sure if the fan was running, would it cause that noise and the idle bein messed up?

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Hey PM me, I'll come take a look at it in person, I'm close enough.

 

[Auto RS T]

The first video is what we know to be called "idle surge". Check for vacuum leaks and read this.

http://www.dsm.org/how-tos/tttt/tttt3.html

The second video sounds horrible, it sounds as if something were loose or broken in the head or some kind of major exhaust leak. Hard to tell from the video.

From the dash lights that are on I would have expected to see the alternator belt missing. This vehicle is low on coolant and has a charging problem or bad sensors or connections.

I also noticed the oil light was on and hopefully the connection just fell off at the oil filter housing.

 

[90-DSM-TSI-AWD]

From the dash lights that are on I would have expected to see the alternator belt missing. This vehicle is low on coolant and has a charging problem or bad sensors or connections.

I also noticed the oil light was on and hopefully the connection just fell off at the oil filter housing.

the warning light on the very left, what does that mean? and also i didnt see low coolant,or charging?, and bad sensors lights?
let me know how you found that out, thanks.

 

[90-DSM-TSI-AWD]

Hey PM me, I'll come take a look at it in person, I'm close enough.

hahaha, your gonna try and buy it before me.

 

[Auto RS T]

the warning light on the very left, what does that mean? and also i didnt see low coolant,or charging?, and bad sensors lights?
let me know how you found that out, thanks.

The one all the way to the left that is yellow is the low coolant light.

The light that shows a battery (light next to the low coolant light) is the charging problem light.

There isn't a "bad sensor" light, I was just trying to imply that if the coolant is full or the battery is being charged than those lights should not be on and there are other problems.

The surging is a common problem with DSMs associated with the throttle body, EGR, or large vacuum leak. That noise is just terrible though, please post what the damage was if you do buy it.

 

[Cypress_h]

gthe first video sounds like the butterfly valve on the throttle body is opening almost fully and it is gasping for air...... second one sounds like a bad rocker arm..... mine has sorta the same problem when i first start the car..... but after about ten seconds it goes away.... hope this helps

 

[90-DSM-TSI-AWD]

thanks, keep more answers comin please

 

[Talesin]

The warning light on the left is to let you know the circus is in town, though it can also be a warning that the Parthenon is in danger.

Seriously, it's a picture of a little old-style radiator.

Definite idle surge (though the rattle it makes when it's slowing down would make me worry), and in the second video, it almost sounds like a weed whacker or a Honda. Do you have any compression numbers for the engine? I'd pop off the valve cover (careful not to crack it when putting it back on, the screws are rated for **VERY** little torque!) and have a look. It's possible that one of the rockers might have popped off, and may be rattling around inside the valvetrain. Not hard to fix with a screwdriver and a buddy (lever the rocker back into place) but it sounds horrific. Might also be something on the timing belt side, or if it still has the A/C fan (driver's side radiator fan) without the bottom bolt being in place, it can rattle around and make some pretty unpleasant noises.

Could also be the alternator (bad bearing, bolt dropped inside, etc), which would explain both the noise and those warning lights.

If that was early in the morning, the smoke out the back could just be condensation heating up and misting off. If it wasn't (or the car had been running for a while) I'd REALLY be concerned about buying a smoking car, and would assume that whatever rattle that is, it may be related to the smoking problem.

 

[90-DSM-TSI-AWD]

The warning light on the left is to let you know the circus is in town, though it can also be a warning that the Parthenon is in danger.

Seriously, it's a picture of a little old-style radiator.

Definite idle surge (though the rattle it makes when it's slowing down would make me worry), and in the second video, it almost sounds like a weed whacker or a Honda. Do you have any compression numbers for the engine? I'd pop off the valve cover (careful not to crack it when putting it back on, the screws are rated for **VERY** little torque!) and have a look. It's possible that one of the rockers might have popped off, and may be rattling around inside the valvetrain. Not hard to fix with a screwdriver and a buddy (lever the rocker back into place) but it sounds horrific. Might also be something on the timing belt side, or if it still has the A/C fan (driver's side radiator fan) without the bottom bolt being in place, it can rattle around and make some pretty unpleasant noises.

Could also be the alternator (bad bearing, bolt dropped inside, etc), which would explain both the noise and those warning lights.

If that was early in the morning, the smoke out the back could just be condensation heating up and misting off. If it wasn't (or the car had been running for a while) I'd REALLY be concerned about buying a smoking car, and would assume that whatever rattle that is, it may be related to the smoking problem.

Thanks, and it only has one fan on it now, the passenger side fan. it was smoking because it was cold and raining out. also the power steering belt is off and needs a new bracket.

alos does the valve cover have a gasket, and do i need to replace it once i have the cover off? I will try and get a compression test sometime soon.

Thanks, Matt

 

[Talesin]

Oh. Well, that could explain things if the power steering pump is just sitting there, rattling against the engine.
Yes, there's a gasket, and if you haven't replaced it in recent history (say a month or so) then it's a good idea to get a new one to toss on. The bolts holding the VC are rated at 36 INCH pounds maximum, so 3ft/lb.
I'd get that PS pump bracket on there and see if the noise goes away though first.

 

[90-DSM-TSI-AWD]

The warning light on the left is to let you know the circus is in town, though it can also be a warning that the Parthenon is in danger.

Seriously, it's a picture of a little old-style radiator.

Definite idle surge (though the rattle it makes when it's slowing down would make me worry), and in the second video, it almost sounds like a weed whacker or a Honda. Do you have any compression numbers for the engine? I'd pop off the valve cover (careful not to crack it when putting it back on, the screws are rated for **VERY** little torque!) and have a look. It's possible that one of the rockers might have popped off, and may be rattling around inside the valvetrain. Not hard to fix with a screwdriver and a buddy (lever the rocker back into place) but it sounds horrific. Might also be something on the timing belt side, or if it still has the A/C fan (driver's side radiator fan) without the bottom bolt being in place, it can rattle around and make some pretty unpleasant noises.

Could also be the alternator (bad bearing, bolt dropped inside, etc), which would explain both the noise and those warning lights.

If that was early in the morning, the smoke out the back could just be condensation heating up and misting off. If it wasn't (or the car had been running for a while) I'd REALLY be concerned about buying a smoking car, and would assume that whatever rattle that is, it may be related to the smoking problem.

Oh. Well, that could explain things if the power steering pump is just sitting there, rattling against the engine.
Yes, there's a gasket, and if you haven't replaced it in recent history (say a month or so) then it's a good idea to get a new one to toss on. The bolts holding the VC are rated at 36 INCH pounds maximum, so 3ft/lb.
I'd get that PS pump bracket on there and see if the noise goes away though first.

It only does it in neutrl though. wouldnt it make sense for it to do it when the car is in gear. it sounds like a normal car when in gear.

Thanks, your helping me alot, and how do i give you reputation, ive been lookin eveywhere, and cant find it.

 

[Talesin]

It would, except possibly (spitballing!) having the drivetrain engaged would reduce/disperse some of the vibration. Have you checked the tranny fluid to make sure it's still there? Same with the oil.
Do you mean that it only makes that nasty buzzing noise when it's not in gear, or that it only idle surges (revs up and down around 2K rpms, from the first video) when it's not in gear? Obviously the car isn't going to idle surge when it's not idling.

People had abused the reputation system in the past, so the Mods have removed it from general users... only mods and admins can give out rep points. Which makes Reputation grow *damn* slow, with how often they give out points.

I'd suggest picking up a mechanic's stethoscope from Autozone (or your local equivalent) and tracking down where those noises are coming from, specifically. It's hard to tell what the car really sounds like, and what's a product of the recording device.


Wait.. just took another look at the belts. Is the power steering belt still ON the pump?! And at a funky angle, to boot? As I recall (power steering deleted on mine) the alt and PS pump share a belt. If the PS pump isn't mounted properly, there's no way that belt is tensioned correctly... belt slippage, and revving up would only make it slip more, possibly chew up the belt, and might pull the PS pump over toward the driver's side when revved up. Would explain the warning lights at the very least.. if the alt belt is slipping, then it won't turn the pulley with enough force/speed to actually recharge the car.

Also, it looks like your idler pulley may have been put on backward... notice how your timing belt is 'edging off' the cam gears, toward the engine? The idler pulley has a ridge on one side to help guide the belt. Most people assume when they see it that it's to keep the belt from working its way to the outside (driver's side) and slipping off the cam gears... when the ridge is supposed to be on the ENGINE side, and keeps the belt from going that way and getting horribly torn up on the side of the VC/head/block, as it appears yours is starting to head toward. Requires removal of the t-belt to fix it, so it's a bit of a PITA.
Unless you're getting a KILLER deal (under a grand or so), I would recommend against buying this car, unless you're getting it to tear it apart, or to learn to work on DSMs. This would NOT make a good daily driver for a DSM newbie, with the problems it's already exhibiting, and the parts it's already missing.

 

[90-DSM-TSI-AWD]

Do you mean that it only makes that nasty buzzing noise when it's not in gear, or that it only idle surges (revs up and down around 2K rpms, from the first video) when it's not in gear? Obviously the car isn't going to idle surge when it's not idling.
Wait.. just took another look at the belts. Is the power steering belt still ON the pump?! And at a funky angle, to boot? As I recall (power steering deleted on mine) the alt and PS pump share a belt. If the PS pump isn't mounted properly, there's no way that belt is tensioned correctly... belt slippage, and revving up would only make it slip more, possibly chew up the belt, and might pull the PS pump over toward the driver's side when revved up. Would explain the warning lights at the very least.. if the alt belt is slipping, then it won't turn the pulley with enough force/speed to actually recharge the car.

Also, it looks like your idler pulley may have been put on backward... notice how your timing belt is 'edging off' the cam gears, toward the engine? The idler pulley has a ridge on one side to help guide the belt. Most people assume when they see it that it's to keep the belt from working its way to the outside (driver's side) and slipping off the cam gears... when the ridge is supposed to be on the ENGINE side, and keeps the belt from going that way and getting horribly torn up on the side of the VC/head/block, as it appears yours is starting to head toward. Requires removal of the t-belt to fix it, so it's a bit of a PITA.

yes it only makes that horrible noise when the car is not in gear. that loud noise stops when you put the car in gear and drive it. ya, and it only has idle surge when idling, not when its in the 2k range while driving.
Also, i think the idler pulley is on backwards, i noticed the belt close to the engine too. i think the timing belt is also loose. you ca see it in the end of one of the vids. bobbling around. would that cause the noise wiht the p/s just hanging there useless?
the power steering bracket isnt on, so the p/s is not connected and just sitting there, it doesnt have the belt either.

 

[90-DSM-TSI-AWD]

more pics!

 

[x3whlmotion240]

that frist one is from a vac line and the second movie has something else going on

 

[90-DSM-TSI-AWD]

ya, thanks for the comments, i still dont really know what the other problem is, i have a whole bunch of gueses.

more suggestions would work.

Thanks.

 

[groundPork]

What i feel is honestly a result of poor upkeep and routine maintenance, also was happening to my car prior to it dying. it will not start now. I believe the noise and the not being able to start are thuroughly not related, but it's occurance was intermitant before, and only now regular right before the car began to surge badly as yours does, and now it won't start.

It did not always surge even though it had that exact same nasty buzzing. I will pull the valve cover soon, and check out a few other things. If you are planning on buying this car to daily drive soon, as a main car. i would advise against it. Unless you have a lot of funny money to spend.