2G Strange spark wiring Order

[AZEclipse07]

Ok I need some help Identifying why the firing order on a 95 talon with complete 6 bolt swap & 90 CAS is different than it should be.

Little background: My brother just bought the car and had it rebuilt but was unable to get it started before he got sent to Afghanistan so I am trying to get it running for him. He was having Idle surge issues but the car runs. I am not sure what test where done to figure out the issues so basically I am starting from scratch.

After a visual inspection I found a few disconnected vacuum lines and the hose clamp on the LICP was loose which would cause boost leaks and idle surge. I also noticed that the firing order is weird as well. Looking at the coil pack head on the firing order is 3214. So I changed it to 4123 and it wouldn't even start.

Does anyone have any ideas why this would be? Thanks

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

3214? Wtf...

Coil from left to right is 4-1-2-3

Looking at the engine from the front of the car it's 4-3-2-1

so the actual coil pack said 3-2-1-4?

Wait wait wait, I think I understand you now. He had it wired to fire 3-2-1-4?

Alright.. if so, the "Coil Pack" is 4-1-2-3

The Engine, from left to right standing in front of the car s 4-3-2-1

So the wire from Coil Pack #4 goes to the far left of the engine, furthest away. The Second Wire from the coil pack, #1, goes to the plug closest to the CAMS. Then Wire 2 from the Coil Pack goes to the one directly beside Spark plug #1, and I'm sure you can figure out where the last one goes.

Again, because the Coil pack says 4-1-2-3, this does not relate to what number cylinder matches the order of the pack.

Pack - 4-1-2-3
Engine - 4-3-2-1

It's weird, I know.

 

[90moneypit]

The reason the plug wires was in the 'original' configuration (and the correct for this application) is due to the CAS signal inversion caused by the 90 CAS. The 95-96 CAS signal causes the opposite side of the coil to fire than a 1g or later 97-99 CAS would. Basically, the 95-96 CAS fire the coils opposite what all the other CAS do. There's a better explanation here:
DSMChips.com | DSM ECU Chips Enchanced by Keydiver
He also mentions a problem with injector harness wiring causing a hesitation as well. I don't know if the engine swap harnesses for CAS solve this problem or not but the common work around is to do exactly what the previous owner did, swap the plug wires so the firing order appears to be 3 2 1 4 on the coils.
http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/tech/1gina2g.pdf has more information on the install as well and lists which pins on the ecu may need to be swapped to get rid of the hesitation.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

The reason the plug wires was in the 'original' configuration (and the correct for this application) is due to the CAS signal inversion caused by the 90 CAS. The 95-96 CAS signal causes the opposite side of the coil to fire than a 1g or later 97-99 CAS would. Basically, the 95-96 CAS fire the coils opposite what all the other CAS do. There's a better explanation here:
DSMChips.com | DSM ECU Chips Enchanced by Keydiver
He also mentions a problem with injector harness wiring causing a hesitation as well. I don't know if the engine swap harnesses for CAS solve this problem or not but the common work around is to do exactly what the previous owner did, swap the plug wires so the firing order appears to be 3 2 1 4 on the coils.
http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/tech/1gina2g.pdf has more information on the install as well and lists which pins on the ecu may need to be swapped to get rid of the hesitation.

Ah geeze. I missed the 90' Cam information. Disregard my post. Hahah.

 

[AZEclipse07]

That is some great information. Thank you.

 

[90moneypit]

Ah geeze. I missed the 90' Cam information. Disregard my post. Hahah.

Well it wasn't just the 90 (as we both know is a PITA on it's own) but all the 1g CAS and the 97-99 CAS. It's something the 6 bolt in any 2g guys (or eprom in a 97-99 for that matter) have to deal with since 95 is the only year to get an eprom ecu.

To AZ, no problem, it's what the forums are for. You might however want to search more often as this is a common question both on and off this forum. A simple "6 bolt in a 2g firing order" search with google turned up the keydriver site as the top match out of 5,000+ hits. You're helping a brother in the service so I really don't mind helping you out but a quick search would have had it running that much sooner!