SMIC more of a restriction or just not able to cool enough air?

[truwarrior]

Is the SMIC more of a restriction or just not able to cool enough air? I have a EVO 16G and debating on getting a FMIC or not. I'm running 20 psi with no knock but it's also 25 degrees here so cooling the air charge shouldn't be a problem...?

Will I get better flow with a upgraded SMIC/FMIC running 20psi or will I mainly beable to cool more air and keep the temps down for safety when it gets warmer out?

How much HP can I expect to gain running 20psi on a EVO16G?

I have DSMLink for tunning, 680 injectors, 190fp, 1G bov, intake, full exhaust.

Just trying to gauge how much harder the car will pull by just swapping the smic with a fmic and keep eveything else set the same.

 

[DragGSX]

When you swap from the side mount to the front mount and leave your psi seting the same i.e 20psi. I dont think youll be able to hit that same psi. youll havta turn up the boost a little to get your 20psi back. (more of a volume to fill) Also alot of people report that a FMIC gives them the most HP out of all the mods theve done. Dyno graphs agree also. should gain from 20-30 hp from the FMIC

 

[Tarantula]

For sure you will feel a difference over the SMIC. Cooling the air makes a whole world of difference. You are doing good right now due to your Cold weather. I went through great lenghts with research and even made an invention (SMIC Project) that test after test proves to cool my intake temps at the maft. I usually log air temps when doing WOT pulls and According to my findings (My personal experience) if my intake temps are 61F or lower I will get 20 degrees of timing with no flat lines or dips (No knock) If I log at 70 or above I get flat line in the timing even dips at times (knock) with no changes to my settings or boost. Now on my car, my intake temps reflect ambient temps. Ambient temps is what cools my puny SMIC. The colder the air, the cooler I can cool the Turbos charge. So if you get a FMIC, you will be cooling better. Right now its all good but wait till summer. Remember, the higher the boost, the hotter the air becomes when compressed by the turbo. Plus the Smic is not all that efficient over 17-18 psi. It was not meant to flow that much air from the factory.

 

[Eclipseturb1384]

Can you still get good gains out of an upgraded SMIC like dejon tool offers? i am looking to keep my car as a sleeper look but i want to be sure that there are SMIC out there that can handle high boost and still be able to get the job done and put out some good HP #'s.

 

[destruckeclipse]

I myself am wondering if a supra or dejon smic upgrade would handle a e316g at maybe 12-15 psi. I don't want a fmic just yet due to the fact I don't have the money and I don't want the police knowing what I got. I must note that I live in socal so temps all year round are pretty high, and since this car will be my daily driver it might get caught in traffic, although I usually get off and cruise side streets if I can.

 

[Tarantula]

I myself am wondering if a supra or dejon smic upgrade would handle a e316g at maybe 12-15 psi. I don't want a fmic just yet due to the fact I don't have the money and I don't want the police knowing what I got. I must note that I live in socal so temps all year round are pretty high, and since this car will be my daily driver it might get caught in traffic, although I usually get off and cruise side streets if I can.

I hear you on the temps as I live in Sunny San Diego as well. I sure the upgraded SMIC's can handle the Evo III 16G. I have the same turbo. My opinion is that theres not enough room in there where it is to cool it fast enough. At least comparing it to a FMIC. Its just too small of an area in front of the wheel. Thats my Opinion. Now over the stock unit, its definately an improvement.
My idea is to get a FMIC than send it to one of those places that anodise metal and get it in black, so that it looks like a radiator. Its not painting but rather a die. I seen it along time ago on DSMTalk (Thats down now) and it has always interested me. It would be harder to really notice if it was black instead of shiny silver.

 

[GPTourer]

I was in the same situation a year ago - trying to run 19-20ish psi on a sidemount and an EvoIII. It was fun for a while, until the weather started to warm up and my HG let go. Once it was fixed, I turned it down to 17 and it ran even better except for those last cool days before spring at 19psi. When I installed my Hahn, my guage only reads about 15-16, but the car feels almost as fast as 19lbs on a cool day on my sidemount. I have a two stage temp gauge (before and after IC) and I thought my second probe was broken because it would lay below the lowest reading of 30 degrees until I finally got on it hard enough on a warm enough day to get it to move up to around 50 degrees. IT is insane how much a difference a good FMIC will make over the sidemount in charge temps. I have scheduled some dyno time next week to find out exactly how much.

 

[truwarrior]

Let me get this straight...your gauge post intercooler reads 50 when it's 70 outside? Something not right with that gauge.

 

[GPTourer]

Ha, no. I was tired when I typed all that. It was definitely much cooler that day. I meant to say that the FMIC keeps the charged air temp at ambient levels, where as the sidemount was incapable of doing so.

 

[truwarrior]

Ok well I'm gonna take a log maybe tonight...It just feels like the car pulls hard around 4000rpms but drops off all though it creeps from 17 to 20psi. I know it's not knock because my knock gauge isn't lighting up...I think the air flow increases so fast from the creep that it pulls timing. I'm also pulling 1 degree of timing from 5k-7k rpms though...just incase it knocks ( no blown HG please! ).

I think the main reason is that the inlet/outlet and cooling tubes on the intercooler is too small...causing a restriction in flow at rpms above 5K

 

[GPTourer]

Yeah, your timing is getting pulled alright. I don't have a way to log knock, so I just have to guess where I see dips in the timing graph. 18+ is just too much for the sidemount on pump gas, especially when it gets above 70 degrees outside.

 

[KPWSerpiente]

I had no problems last year running my evo3 16g at 20-21 psi through my dejontool sidemount with pump gas. At the track I ran 25 psi and straight c16. The intercooler would get very hot very fast like that.

-T

 

[truwarrior]

What's a better intercooler for a evo16G? AMS or Hahnracecraft? I kinda want a hahn to keep the stock fog lights, but heard the AMS intercooler have a really good core...the hahn is a lot cheaper though too.

 

[noz]

I had no problems last year running my evo3 16g at 20-21 psi through my dejontool sidemount with pump gas. At the track I ran 25 psi and straight c16. The intercooler would get very hot very fast like that.

-T

did you dyno 320whp w/race gas or on pump?
this is with the side mount right w/big 16g?

 

[1fast97gsx]

The ams intercooler is a really nice piece and capable of supporting basically anything you throw at it. I'd get that one if you can afford it. Definitly upgrade your intercooler though because once it gets nice out 18psi will be the limit in our area with your setup.

 

[Tarantula]

What's a better intercooler for a evo16G? AMS or Hahnracecraft? I kinda want a hahn to keep the stock fog lights, but heard the AMS intercooler have a really good core...the hahn is a lot cheaper though too.

I am thinking on the Hahn intercooler as well. I love the way my 98 Talon conversion looks from the face and spent good money to get the fog lamps in as well and wish to keep them. When I was taking measurements 24" wide is the widest I can go without messin with the fog lamps, and it would take up all the frontal hole just nicely. It seems that the Hahns unit is nicely made. I won't be going much bigger than the Evo III 16G so that would be plenty since it is capable of 600hp flow.

 

[KPWSerpiente]

did you dyno 320whp w/race gas or on pump?

Race gas. 11.9:1 air/fuel across the board. Evo3 16g and dejontool sidemount.

-T

 

[sweet97]

Dejn makes a nice street FMIC that would be nice for the EVO. It follows stock piping though so that is a long way for the cooled charge to follow back to the Throttle body. I tried that IC but had a 50 trim and sold it for a Spearco 2-221 whichis only 16% larger than the dejon but has 57% more cooling tubes. Both are top to bottom flow, actually bottom to top. Mark
PS: the FMIC allowed me to make a cold air intake with my K&N sitting where the stock IC was. I do have a GM MAF-Translator in a blow thru positionthat allowed the CAI also.

 

[Dauntless]

Ok well I'm gonna take a log maybe tonight...It just feels like the car pulls hard around 4000rpms but drops off all though it creeps from 17 to 20psi. I know it's not knock because my knock gauge isn't lighting up...I think the air flow increases so fast from the creep that it pulls timing. I'm also pulling 1 degree of timing from 5k-7k rpms though...just incase it knocks ( no blown HG please! ).

I think the main reason is that the inlet/outlet and cooling tubes on the intercooler is too small...causing a restriction in flow at rpms above 5K

So long as your IC tubing doesn't have a restriction somewhere along the way, chances are that your high-RPM power loss is not related to a flow restriction, per se. What is far more likely to be happening is that the SMIC is heat soaking as boost and aircharge heat build in the IC. At some point (very quickly with the small OEM SMIC and a powerful engine) the IC is absorbing heat faster from the aircharge than it can release it to the ambient air flowing through it, so the air flowing through the IC begins to emerge from the IC hotter than earlier in the power run, so its density, and hence engine power, begins to fall off. That's why you are seeing a power loss even though the boost is increasing from 17 to 20 psi.

If you are encountering this situation routinely during power pulls (or at the drag strip), then you are a good candidate for an IC upgrade. A larger IC (FMIC) acts as a larger heat sink, allowing the engine to maintain aircharge density longer during a power pull or run than an otherwise equally efficient smaller IC. Of course, the jump to a larger FMIC involves longer and often larger tubes, and larger IC volume, so whatever turbo lag is present is going to be somewhat accentuated.

 

[truwarrior]

Ya I don't know what's goin on...I'll post a log in a few hours with a 3rd gear pull. I might just be running too rich because I'm not getting any knock if the IC is heat soaking.

 

[GPTourer]

It think it has more to do with the size of the IC then just the inlet and outlet tubes. An EvoIII can flow so much more "good" air that it can fill the stock IC up and then some, so the air that passes through it doesn't spend enough time inside the IC to be cooled back down. An FMIC is bigger so the wind chill affect lasts longer as the air passes through it.

 

[destruckeclipse]

I hear you on the temps as I live in Sunny San Diego as well. I sure the upgraded SMIC's can handle the Evo III 16G. I have the same turbo. My opinion is that theres not enough room in there where it is to cool it fast enough. At least comparing it to a FMIC. Its just too small of an area in front of the wheel. Thats my Opinion. Now over the stock unit, its definately an improvement.
My idea is to get a FMIC than send it to one of those places that anodise metal and get it in black, so that it looks like a radiator. Its not painting but rather a die. I seen it along time ago on DSMTalk (Thats down now) and it has always interested me. It would be harder to really notice if it was black instead of shiny silver.

I though of doing this as well. If you have good luck with a powder coater that's local, do let me know.