Question about Cams and Cam Gears

[E-CLIPS97]

I could have sworn I read somewhere that if you have aftermarket cams you NEED aftermarket cam gears to make them work properly. Is there any merit to this? I cant find where I read the info.

 

[andymoraitis]

Most cams, including those from HKS, DKS, Comp, FP and Crower are made to be dropped in straight up without degreeing. There's no harm in doing this, but to get the most from your cams, it helps to have adjustable cam gears and access to a dyno in order to "dial them in" and optimize your setup in terms of low end and high end power production. More experienced tuners will even use a degree wheel.

If you have the opportunity to add cam gears and can afford to, I'd say it's a worthwhile investment, but if you can't, you'll still see excellent gains provided the cams you choose are well suited to the motor and turbo.

Hope that helps,

Andy

 

[E-CLIPS97]

Ya, Thats great. Thanks for the info.

 

[andymoraitis]

I just noticed that you're N/T and in that case I would strongly recommend them since you don't have boost to affect the way the motor makes power.

Good luck with your build,

Andy

 

[DSM90AWD]

Well said Andy

Just to add, adjustable cam gears may look purdy and give you the ability to tune your tork/HP curve a bit, but there is also risk involved. I've heard many an instance where one's cam adjustment bolts backed out or were just not properly torked in the first place causing then to slip and cause valve damage.

Not to dissuade you from getting a set, just make sure you buy a decent set and check it periodically

 

[andymoraitis]

John's point is very well taken. Make sure you buy from a reputable company like Fidanza, AEM, etc. instead of some ebay no name vendor.

 

[Focker420]

SO funny storie i blew my timing belt on my car and wreaked the valves so rebuilt the head ported and polished and put new cams in from comp cams and while we were putting it in i noticed that they were an inch too short and they checked out to be for a 4g63 engine sent them back and got the new right ones put them in and did everything up tryed to start and it sounded soooooo bad like terriable so took off valve cover and checked timing was right pondered for a while and matched the new cams up to the old stock ones to find that the little nub at the end of the cam where the gear would sit was about 110o out of time very mad . so said screw the comp cams thrid try got crane cams fright and put in but didn't get gears with cams engine started and was like a new engine sounded like a V8 and rough idle but hauled ass . now i am waiting for my cam gears from AEM and will be here at end of the week, can i expect a better smoother idle from the gears and hopefully some whps. I need to find a really good tuner aswell.

 

[dr1665]

SO funny storie...

Dude. It's good to see you trying, but this is a technical forum. You need to make more of an effort to post maturely if you want to gain respect and a reputation for being experienced.

As for the cam gears, I am excited to see other wisemen from other forums helping out a NT brother. Although I'm sure this thread was moved from somewhere else, this is the sort of thing that I hope we have in the NT forums one day soon.

I could only add that, if you were on a limited budget (who isn't?), you might opt to get the lifters, rockers, and valve springs before you get the gears. These will allow you to run a more aggressive cam profile safely. The absolute LAST two mods I bought for my all motor car were a used Greddy Evo catback and a used set of Fidanza cam gears. I've yet to install either, but everything else is pretty much done.

 

[bullettdsm]

Just to throw a little more fuel on the fire; I used just one gear on the intake. Did a little research on what others had done and how it affected the power curve. I tried various positions and came up with 3 degrees retard on the intake that would help me with my power in the top end. Now that was with stock cams and big intake (and TB). Funny thing is, when I did my 10.9 comp engine (with crower 2's), I found the best postition to be at 0. Yeah, just butt dyno stuff, but I don't have cheap access to a dyno . But it was good enough for 14.9 all engine so it worked for me.

The point being that cam gear adjustment is specific to each engine and where you want your power to be. You may be able to adjust your idle smoother but that may take away your top end.

Just food for thought,
MB

 

[Focker420]

dr1665 what was i not being mature about in my forum? Any way the rebuilt head means cams,rockers, lifters and springs.So the head is built up to handle somemore power.

I've had my car dyno'd end of last summer when i got my safc2 and the tuner got a gain of about 7whp to the wheels and made a total of 137whp and 147 ft/torque to the wheels.
the dyno showed a huge dump of fuel at 4500 and there was a few other spikes in the range aswell. And the guy who had the dyno said i should get cam gears to get the most out of the cams.

 

[E-CLIPS97]

Thanks for all the help guys. I heard the AEM gear notches are off compared to what they should be at, and that many people on here have had to "scratch" their own marks...? I would probably just go with something like fidanza.

DR...I am not looking for a major upgrade in the valvetrain. I commute in this car(I work 2 jobs) and just want to add a bit of acceleration. Probably just add crane #10 cams. My car looks nice but just needs a bit more pep. There are, of course, a few other mods that could come before the cams, but I like to gather knowledge on all the mods I want to do, and then put all my ducks in a row, and make an educated decision when I have all the facts/info. You guys are great.

 

[andymoraitis]

I think you're right on track. The Fidanza's are what I'd use if I had cam gears. You're going about this intelligently and I think you'll have a very fun daily driver by the time you're done.

Keep us posted on how it goes!

Andy

 

[Focker420]

i bought my apex safc2 off ebay for like 350 when all said and done it helped with more pep but need somone with dyno to tune. If u plan to keep ## car nt then id go to the head for the next performace mods and or for somthing easy and cheap i go a throttle body spacer and it help not much but u'll notice and it costs like 150 buck pfff nothing. I got a air aid one because of the design which has sharp edges that spin the air comin in and make it more compressable. Very easy install too, at 2500rpm whistles like a turbo sounds kinda cool.

good luck about not making and back-steps cause i gotta ditch my header to get the turbo manifold. I aswell am a daily driver and don't like drivin slow eather.

 

[dr1665]

throttle body spacer and it help not much but u'll notice and it costs like 150 buck pfff nothing.

Pffft, nothing? I would spend that money on something proven to actually work. Say, a UDP for example. Don't know if the OP has one off the top of my head, but a TB spacer, if more than $25, would be a waste of money, if you ask me. If you really wanted a spacer of any kind on that side of the motor, it would be between the intake manifold and the head, but the gains associated with them have not been proven to be worth the effort to install, let alone manufacture on a 420A.

I got a air aid one because of the design which has sharp edges that spin the air comin in and make it more compressable. Very easy install too, at 2500rpm whistles like a turbo sounds kinda cool.

Are you saying you actually bought a "Tornado" for your intake? You gotta be kidding me. Combined with the TB spacer and this deal, all you need is a Venom computer to complete the Trifecta!

 

[bullettdsm]

Yeah, Brian, I see what you mean. Tough read WTF . E-clips, nice post and positon. As Andy said you seem to be on your way in the right direction.

As for the Aem gears, I believe my gear is Aem and the line is fine. But it is also a couple of years old and only the intake so it may be the exhaust or the newer ones that have problems.

I know that you didn't ask in this post but just a recomendation on the next mod; AF/X UDP. I think that will give you that "pep" you are looking for, for about the same price as a set of gears. Also, check your wish list and make it your "to buy" list . You won't be sorry.

Happy modding,
MB