Petition Against /For [Merged 3-8]

[EvolvingGST]

A real solution is alternative energy.

You wont see anything for 10 years is they started a new oil project today.
So a savings of 50 cents in tens years, big whoop.

My look someone who is actually smart.

Darth: Now do you know anything about world economics? So if it takes 10 years how will it effect the economics right now? And it will not ease pains of oil demands now... What you have said makes no sense to today's troubles. And it has less to do with if there is actually a supply as to the speculation if there is. Thus the ones driving up the price are called speculators.

 

[EclipseTrbo420A]

A real solution is alternative energy.

You wont see anything for 10 years is they started a new oil project today.
So a savings of 50 cents in tens years, big whoop.

This is America, 10 years is a joke, I cant believe people actually believe the BS thats shoved down their throats. Bottom line is if were allowed to drill on OUR OWN LAND we can refine and have usable oil on no time and prices will fall not to mention the most important thing to ease the speculation.

 

[EclipseTrbo420A]

The problem is we destroy their habitat when we drill in their environments. Let's see how you like it if we uproot your house to drill for some oil.

Just before they receive double market value. Shit, you could right in my kitchen if It meant the prices would come down.

 

[99RedGs]

I'm sure there is plenty of dead dinosaur left in the ground.. .Its all a lie...like global warming... <--Joke

Really though does it not seem odd that americans have been driving fewer and fewer miles each year yet Exxon makes record profit (billions more then previous years)? Seems like something fishy there to me. It also seems like as cars become more gas efficient they raise the prices to compensate for it.

(Puts on tin foil hat)

All I can say is prices better stop rising so fast because eventually people won't be able to handle it anymore and there will be a revolution type event.

 

[DarthBulk]

My look someone who is actually smart.

Darth: Now do you know anything about world economics?

Do you?

So if it takes 10 years how will it effect the economics right now?

I already said how it would affect the price right now. Also, the 10 year number might come into play with offshore drilling, because they have to find the oil first. But in ANWR? I think they already know where it is, and oil companies are pretty well prepared to go in and get it.

And it will not ease pains of oil demands now... What you have said makes no sense to today's troubles.

Ok, you lost me here. How exactly does it not make sense?

And it has less to do with if there is actually a supply as to the speculation if there is. Thus the ones driving up the price are called speculators.

Now you just made my point. Speculation wouldn't work if there were no supply fears. They are speculating the prices will GO UP, because they are watching all the oil producing countries who have troubles.

On a side note, try to keep the debate on facts, not personal.

 

[droppinbottom]

Some people stupidity amuses me.

All of you that are for the drilling have not even stoped to think about the whole situation.

Drilling is just a bandaid for a bigger problem. Do you really want to keep making the big oil executives millions of dollars per quarter or do you want to realize that this is our chance to put a stop on things now once and for all.

I am for the Ban staying in place for the simple fact that we can force auto makers to leave the sides of the big oil companies and make a better product for us. We the consumer are the ones who will keep the car manufactures alive right now not the oil companies and if we quit buying vehicles that suck down gas then they will be forced to make better alternative fuel vehicles.

Did anyone notice that Mercedes has said they will quit producing gas powered vehicles within the next 7 years as a result of the oil markets??

Come on folks think for once. Lastly this kind of thread has no business being on this forum

 

[EvolvingGST]

Do you?



I already said how it would affect the price right now. Also, the 10 year number might come into play with offshore drilling, because they have to find the oil first. But in ANWR? I think they already know where it is, and oil companies are pretty well prepared to go in and get it.



Ok, you lost me here. How exactly does it not make sense?



Now you just made my point. Speculation wouldn't work if there were no supply fears. They are speculating the prices will GO UP, because they are watching all the oil producing countries who have troubles.

On a side note, try to keep the debate on facts, not personal.

I would hope I know how the stock market works I do work for one of the largest financial firms in the world.

And I didn't see anything that I said to make it a personal attack. I am sorry you see it that way. Ok here is the problem with your theory. and the whole 10 year thing ect ect. The reason why there speculation won't stop is there are 3-4 economic pressures that effect oil price.

The basic #1 supply
#2 demand
#3 is currency
#4 is Opec

1. Supply is being speculated in being low. Ok we find oil and then we start pumping it... Great we have oil... Problem with that is that oil and oil prices are going to go up because of #4. We are still not going to produce enough oil to sustain our own country. But we have offended Opec. Opec will now raise the prices due to competition like a good business man will. Because they have to offset the cost of their losses. As someone has said how is Mobil making record profits.

So to make this profit they will do one of two things. They will raise the cost of oil or out produce the US even more to cover their losses.

Here is scenerio #2, you lower price of oil you are going to raise the demand of other countries that will offset the usage that the US will have taken away, and raise the price back up. Now there is also the issue that no good business will sell the oil here if they can sell it somewhere else for more money. Unless there is something in it for them, like govt. subs. ect ect. So you still wont be getting your oil for .27 or how much ever you think they can get a barrel for, you are probably more or less going to have to pay some kind of market price for it. Its not like the govt is getting into the business of drilling oil.

That plus oil currently is based off the US dollar, the inflation pressures of the dollar due to the food inflation, weakening dollars, make oil more expensive. So yeah speculation might be raising it but you have to also put this into account. Until oil can be traded in another currency, this will not change.

Even GWB has said "This is a psychological relief plan"

And so has McCain said about his tax holiday on gas "It doesn't really help but its the way that people will percieve it."


By the way you guys are recieving this I guess it does work.

 

[DarthBulk]

You are right, they are SPECULATING that the supply of oil will be low. Any oil that is put on the world market, that doesn't come from an OPEC country, will reduce OPEC's ability to manipulate oil prices by cutting supply. That will reduce speculation. I am all for sources of energy that come from friendly countries, and I would consider the USA a friendly country. So any oil that can be produced by drilling offshore here, or in ANWR, will help to stabilize and bring down oil prices. Personally, I don't care what form that energy takes, be it nuclear, solar, wind, domestic oil, coal, or whatever. I would love to have a hydrogen or electric powered car infrastructure here. The ultimate goal is to completely remove OPEC's or any other unfriendly country's influence over our energy supply. Increasing domestic oil supply will do that, no matter where that oil is sold. If OPEC were to raise their output in response to US production, isn't that a good thing? That would put even MORE supply on the market, which has a known effect...lowering price.

I don't know what all of the effects of the value of the dollar have on a barrel of oil, but I would guess that if the value of the dollar drops, it changes how much oil you can buy for a dollar. I wouldn't think it would change the inherent value of that barrel of oil, i.e. how badly do people want to buy it? Supply and demand determine that. Maybe you can illuminate the effects of the value of the dollar some more.

 

[91tizzy]

Lastly this kind of thread has no business being on this forum

Why not? What goes in your DSM's tank? because i know it doesnt run on wishful thinking

 

[theSicKness]

oddly enough i work for an Oil and gas Company.. we are currently Leasing land from land owners to look for oil and gas.. so as for this petition to drill for oil.. we are already doing that. More so on the gas side, but oil as well..

 

[droppinbottom]

Why not? What goes in your DSM's tank? because i know it doesnt run on wishful thinking

Because this type of thread can get political and this type of thread can create very hostile posts since it is a very big debate right now in this country. If you really want to get a petition going then you my friend should be sitting outside walmart getting real signatures.

Online petitions are a joke and are not even taken seriously. It might as well be a poll. You are also giving your information to a website that you have no idea about.

Here is a little exerpt from everyones favorite website. Wikipedia

The format makes it easy for people to make a petition at any time. Several websites allow anyone with computer access to make one to protest any cause, such as stopping planned development of a wetland or closure of a store. Online petitions are more likely to be abused due to the anonymous nature of the signer.

But the ease of such a format leads to problems. Because it is easy to set up, it can attract frivolous causes, or even joke ones. One example of an online petition intended to be taken as a joke was a petition demanding the shutdown of an online petition site.[citation needed]

The people who electronically sign the petition can also come into question and may invalidate the legitimacy of the petition itself. Without verification via a confirmation e-mail or some other form of verification that can be looked at and confirmed, one could easily pad a petition with false names and e-mails. To compare in the real world, a local government may require of a protesting group tackling a problem to not only require the signatures of people who sign their petitions, but also their printed name, and a way to verify the signature (either with a phone number or identification number via a driver's license or a passport) to ensure that the signature is legitimate and not falsified by the protestors.[1]

Many legitimate Non-governmental organizations (NGOs) shun online petitions for various reasons. Amnesty International's reputation is based on the written letters its members write to help people all around the world. The track record of online petitions is also another reason why many NGOs shun them, as there are very few examples of this form of petition achieving its objective, and critics frequently cite it as an example of slacktivism.

In February 2007 an online petition against road pricing and car tracking on the UK Prime Minister's own website[2] attracted over 1.8 million e-signatures from a population of 60 million people. The site was official but experimental at the time.[3] Shocked government ministers were unable to backtrack on the site's existence in the face of national news coverage of the phenomenon. The incident has demonstrated both the potential and pitfalls of online e-government petitions applied to a mid term government. It remains to be seen if policy will be permanently affected.[4

The information above was copied from wikipedia (providing the source so I don't get blamed for copyright information) Internet petition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[syrushcw]

I think it all oil comp greed, gas prices went up 3x Ill say from 1.50 to 4.50 yet oil comp profits have increased 6 fold. Oil company's are making the most money ever. For example say oil company profits are 10c / gallon (this is just an example) then the would of kept the same amount of profit couple million a year. But no it has gone up to say 90c / gallon because there profit is in the billions a year. Now that is greed.

 

[91tizzy]

Honestly I can empathise with both sides of the debate and I find myself questioning even which side I am for....like the drilling in alaska thing ...in reality I cant trust oil company's to actually be responsible up there......but all I know is I dont want all of this to be the demise of the traditional internal combustion engine that we have all learned to love and appreciate...alternative fuels? sure e85? sure Hybrids? All electric? no freaking thanks

 

[droppinbottom]

Honestly I can empathise with both sides of the debate and I find myself questioning even which side I am for....like the drilling in alaska thing ...in reality I cant trust oil company's to actually be responsible up there......but all I know is I dont want all of this to be the demise of the traditional internal combustion engine that we have all learned to love and appreciate...alternative fuels? sure e85? sure Hybrids? All electric? no freaking thanks

You do realize that a electric motor would beat a gas motor in a race hands down don't you?

I would love to have a electric powered car to race with.

 

[91tizzy]

You do realize that a electric motor would beat a gas motor in a race hands down don't you?

I would love to have a electric powered car to race with.

nah there are many other aspects to an internal combustion engine that appeal to me other than shear acceleration....the sound of a honda s600 screamin at 9,000 rpms is something that cant be replicated or replaced by the barely audible whrr or whizz of an electric motor....that is just one example...look at the nhra...could you imagine them with just some big ole batterys sittin behind themWTF....####abunchathat....electric cars

 

[hdoerr]

Speculating and lack of refining is the real issue. Each one of these creates a false supply situation. There has never been more crude available but as long as the greenies get to interfere then we will all have to suffer these prices. Nothing ever gets cheaper, face it.

 

[lo2210]

Damn get rid of your car then guys if its a waste & we need to use alternative methods, won't you guy start a new trend & give up your cars then? exactly you won't !! hpye, hype, hype thas all the media feed you guys & people fall for it everytime oh no it global warming oh the new word climate change always someway to keep the hype.

 

[Flash]

Oil is going to collapse just like every market does when it gets totally overvalued. Look at the housing market. Though we are not there yet. It may take years for production to surpass demand, and this production increase hasn't started yet.
There are good plans as Newt Gingrich outlined in a speech he gave last week.

 

[pj91gsx]

Oil is so cheap here is rediculous. Though I cant afford to drive much because I only have a part time job and I still go to high school. I think we should drill but I think there is another way. You will notice this video is really old. The technology has gone as far as it will go. I made a generator to do this in my garage a few days ago. This is really interesting. I got the idea from a friend that put it on an old honda and he said it runs great. The HHO cleans out the motor as well. One guy near me took his idea to Ford and was paid off not to tell anyone. The oil companies dont want to lose business. I know some people run all HHO in there vehicles and some run half and half. It can double gas mileage.

YouTube - water powered car

 

[DougR]

Always remember "You must Pay to Play", "How Fast do you want to go?"

With some ppl who think outside of the box, We could have a Turbo HHO / Pump gas hybrid that gets 40mpg+ (highway) and still make 400hp+ at WOT (1320, etc.). It just requires the right engine mangment! As our DD!

Innovation Costs!

IMHO all it requires someone (private sector, non industry / government) to step up and say I can and will do it!. To revolutionize The ICE (Internal combustion engine) and make Radical Improvements!
Fook oil, Fook drilling new holes.. Use and exploit current technology!