Intake manifold

[supereclipse]

Ill just use my magnus intake manifold. Its around the same price and its proven.

 

[GRNDSM]

Proven? Proven to be what? Look, I have nothing against Marco’s intake, but I haven’t seen any data showing that any after-market intake is proven to be better than another.

NOSLASER, pretty much stated all the performance reasons why I also like it over the rest of DSM intakes. Frankly, I would prefer if someone can prove that one of the trusty DSM vendors has a better intake. I would rather buy BR’s or Marco’s intake, but so far, no one has done this…

Leon
RR

 

[supereclipse]

What they dynoed 54 whp out of this intake manifold alone. What do u mean its not proven.

 

[GRNDSM]

>What they dynoed 54 whp out of this intake manifold alone. What do u mean its not proven.

That is PRECISELY what I mean!!! 54hp increase over stock means NOTHING to me when you are talking about other after-market intakes! How do you know that FRH, or Polk or BR intakes wouldn’t give you extra 60 hp on the same car?


Leon
RR

 

[supereclipse]

What they dynoed 36whp out of the forester but there was no bottom end loss at all. Which is good now im not saying the magnus is the best i am saying that its what i wanted and after looking at how much time was put into the manifold then i would tell anyone else to get it. So if the $800 br intake manifold give me 6 more horsepower no thank you.

 

[GRNDSM]

>What they dynoed 36whp out of the forester

Again, this proves nothing… Different engine/turbo combinations will respond in a very different manner to different intakes… That is why you need to a do back to back tests on the same car. I can sort of see that no one wants to do this test in fear of loosing the comparison. Who knows, many some people have already done it, but keeping their mouths shut because they came up short to their competitors...

I guess the best thing would be to have an impartial magazine run such test. Who has connections to people that can make this happen?

Leon
RR

 

[supereclipse]

I understand yes that would actually show who made the most power. Hell the venom could make the most power but i dont really think so. I chose the magnus b/c first its extremley light. wheighing in at around 4 pounds. Second i have seen the dyno pull on it. Third i have heard nothing but good things from ppl that do have them. Im not nocking anyone elses manifold by no means.

 

[Mitsu2nv]

go to www.magnusmotorsports.com
they have 1g and 2g sheetmetal intake manifolds
i bought a 2g manifold for my car and hugh difference was noticed
its been dyno'd to give the car 40 whp
check it out

 

[NosLaser]

You are missing the point supereclipse. The Magnus Intake manifold can give you an extra 100HP for all I care, but if it's at 8500, and it LOSES power in the rpm ranges where it matters most on a street car, then it's not a worthwhile upgrade. For an all out drag car with a T76 on it that only sees 5000-9000rpm operation, then sure, it's great! But for, say a 16g street car that's gonna run out of steam at 6000rpm anyway, why would you want an intake manifold designed to make peak power at 8500 that loses power in the lower rpm ranges where you can actually take advantage of additional power?

Regards,

 

[supereclipse]

I understand that is y there is more than one intake manifold on the market. There is different ones for everyone elses needs. I myself could care less about streetable car b/c Any car pretty much can be driven on the street.

 

[NosLaser]

And that concludes this episode of 'Intelligent replies by supereclipse.' That's te best you can come up with? "Any car can be driven on the street." HUH??? Come on dude. This is why this we get called DSM Tooners...

Regards,

 

[supereclipse]

Yelp that all i have. Jeeezus i wasnt trying to get in a pissing match about a intake manifold. But hey whatever.

 

[NosLaser]

Neither am I, but you replied to the thread, and then returned to discuss your case on a couple more occasions, I'm just disappointed and figured you would have brought more to the table than 'there's no real difference between a street and a race car.' I'm not going to insult your intelligence further, but it seems we can't even get a basis going to see eye to eye and actually have a discussion, so we might as well both go pound sand since it will be mounds more productive.

Regards,

 

[GRNDSM]

Both of you guys, stop high-jacking this tread. I do not want to go back and delete your last few posts.

Leon
RR

 

[tanner261]

Originally posted by NosLaser
The point of a large plenum is to create a low pressure area, and a ram effect. What happens is you have this high volume of pressurized air, and some of it is going to hit a closed intake valve. When that happens, the air is going to bounce back and seek out the closest low pressure area. This is known as the 3rd harmonic. There is high pressure inside the intake manifold, and definately high pressure in the cylinders, so if your plenum is too small, the next closest low pressure area is your intercooler. With a large plenum, the air will 'collect' there and be ready to go though an open intake valve instantly, creating a ram effect. You basically get much more use of that air that has already taken the time to travel through the IC piping, into the intake manifold, and ready to do it's job contributing to the combustion process.

Regards,

Have you studied helmholtz resonance tuning? The volume of the plenum does not have nearly the effect on tuning as the length and area of the runners. Known as the 3rd harmonic? More than 1 harmonic can be utilized.

I'm not intending to flame you, just pointing out there is more to manifold design.

 

[NosLaser]

Of course there is more to tuning a manifold, and if you were paying attention to all of my replies, you would have seen subtle hints to that. (Where I mentioned "if the manifold makes peak power at 8500, and your turbo runs out of steam at 6000, etc.") The plenum has a MUCH MUCH larger influence on how much power can be made with the manifold; the runner length has more influence on where in the powerband that power occurs which is another thing I find fault in the Magnus manifold. Since you seem to want to get technical, I will oblige you.

The way you "tune" an intake manifold is to provide a plenum that is just right, so that when the air hits a closed valve, it bounces back into the plenum, and then bounces back again and hits an open valve this time; thus giving you a ram affect. Now, some people will say "the engine is already boosted, so you are already 'ramming' air into the engine" but you know what? More is ALWAYS better. The other part of the equation is determining runner length. The way to determine runner length is to take the number 84,000, and divide it by the rpm you desire to have peak horsepower. The way to "cheat" another couple horsepower out of his equation is to divide it by the rpm RIGHT BEFORE peak HP. After that equation is complete, you must measure the distance from the opening of the intake port, to the back of the intake valve. Let's use easy numbers. Let's say you want to make peak HP at 7,000 rpm. 84,000 divided by 7,000 is 12. You will need a 12 inch long runner to make peak HP at 7K rpm. Now, that is 12 inches of TOTAL runner distance. You must subtract from that number (12) the distance you measured from the opening of the intake port to the back of the valve. Let's say that distance is 6 inches. Therefore, in order to make peak HP at 7K rpm, you need a 6 inch intake manifold runner. Now, to determine the proper size of the intake plenum, you need to make it at least twice as large as the total volume of the cylinders. I hope this clears some things up for you, at at least gets you in the mode of really thinking about what you are saying, and not just trying to prove me wrong because of something you heard in your physics class. The theory you read in your textbooks doesn't always corespond to how things work in applicaton 100% of the time. There is a saying that goes 'you can't fool experience.'

Regards,

 

[LaserRST]

The shape of the intake may effect flow, but the real gains in a short runner/ high volume intake is taking advantage of that rarefraction wave. If you have a large plenum, there will be enough air there to scavange its next draw. If the wave has to go through the TB than its lost never to return. The plenum size has much to do with tuning the intake as well as runner length. Part throttle on a monster like this wont feel as torqy as stock... but on top is where this manifold is meant to be.

 

[GRNDSM]

Since this is one of the more complete threads about Venom intake, I want update everyone on latest developments with this intake. It appears that Venom intake is only rated to 25psi!!! This low limit makes it pretty much USELESS for more advanced users, who would be more likely to run 25-40psi!

Check out this thread for more info:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=71960

Leon
RR