Idle Surge, very bad, need help!!!

[xhypno]

Ok here is the problem. On May 6, I bought a 1994 ES Talon with the 2.0l 4g63 motor. It has 65k on it, and is in very good condition. About one week ago, the check engine light went on, and when at an idle the rpms jump about 300-700, and when the clutch is in or when not in gear (slowing down) the same surge appears.
I connected an ohm meter to the data port and came up with a code 43. Which is for the egr system. I tested the thermo valve sensors, all working. I test the vacum to it, good. I figured all that is left is the egr valve. I removed the valve, and it was fauled bad, alot of carbon deposits. I used carb cleaner and a wire brush to clean it. I then vacum checked the valve. It seemed to be working.
At this point I thought every thing should be fine. I put the valve back in and started the car. It was fine. But after a 10 min drive later that day, it started again, but this time with no check engine light.
I have checked every sensor under the hood twice with the ohm meter and still can't find another problem.

Does anyone have a suggestion?????

Any help will be appreciated!!!!! Thank you Philip

 

[SomeblackGUY-RS]

I have a 91 laser n/t nother victim of the surge sickness bad idle 800-300 back in forth at stops, runs great but rough when under 2k in first . I was wondering whats a good place to start is.What are the best things on the check list to start with.

My ideas:
-Clean throttle body
-Check gap on TB plate
-ISC screw/motor
-O2 sensor
-...Then what

Someone lemme know if this is a good place to start - be for i start dropin bucks.Also whats a BISS.

 

[mac 108]

Ok I had an idle problem and it was fixed when I changed the IAC. Then all of sudden it came back after several weeks. I changed the IAC AGAIN with a brand new one. Still idle surge when the car is warm. When I first start the car after it has been sitting for a long time, normal idle. When the car is driven and warm, it surges. What can I do to fix it?

 

[Got DSM]

Block off your FIAV. thats the fast idle air valve. it brings the idle up on cold starts to warm it up and as coolant runs through it, a wax inside closes the valve. I changed my ISC too and it didnt work. so i blocked off the fiav and my idle is 100% perfect.

 

[Siral3x]

Ok..I got the same problem, Idle Surge, and with this reply I'm just giving more feedback to the problem.
It started with power loss for like 0.4 sec at WOT in 4th gear.(shifthing from 3rd to 4th at 1500rpm, and then hammer it to 6k rpm, I had this 'flash' of power loss.)
My car is almost bone stock, so I couldn't really tell if I'm runing reach/lean.
After a couple of days my car started to idle at only 350-400rpm , 2 days ago at a stop the check engine turned on, and it ended up being a code 25 I think..the ISC valve.
It's almost liek $200, so I went today and got a 1g Turbo TB+IAC at a junkyard for $45.
I didn't had time to change it today, but I did some research.
As far as I know when the ISC dies on you, you're runing always rich...that explains that my exhaust was smelling a lot like unburnt gas+ u can chk it by inspecting the spark plugs, for those guys who don't have a gauge yet.
Another symptom on my car is when you let it coast it 'rattles/bucks' crazy...after some reading that led me also to the ISC. A mechanic said don't drive the car like that because you're gonna mess up the spark plugs for sure.
So sometime tomorrow I'm gonan chk it with the multimiter also+change it, and then I'll post an update here.
good look for everybody with idle surge,
PS: Sombody already posted the http://dmtalon.v8eaters.com/ISC.html website...it has a ton of good info abt this issue+ you can get the ISC out w/o taking the TB out.

 

[highboostintsi]

i have the same problem when the car is completely warm, i will sit at the light and it sounds like my car is cammed out wild style. i think my car is gunna die sometimes.it could be alot of things i have to narrow it down.

 

[anthony069]

i"ve done everything from faiv valve by pass + egr bypass new isc motor adjusted tps and still i"ve got this idle problem. some times when i"m at a light my check engine light comes on but when i touch the gas pedal it goes off.idle statrs off fine till about 5 min later the car starts to want to stall idle goes from 1000 sinks 2 about 400 rpm at lights some times i smell gas fumes sounds like i got super cams inside . scared acouple mustangs!
i also replaced colant sensor and cleaned throttle body some body told me because i hollowed out the cat converter
i must have killed the oxygen sensor.

pleased help i"M about 2 blow a head gasket off my shoulders going broke!!!!!!

 

[Ravenous]

I think for those of you who have gone through the list and still have idle surge issues, that you may need to look at the ecu. Steve said in one of his other posts that the isc can check out fine but the isc drivers in the ecu could cause problems. Also the caps could be bad... I am not 100% sure that the caps effect the idle but who knows at this point. My car has developed a nasty idle surge between 1000 and 2000 rpms... it got stuck at 2000 rpm idle at the grocery store yesterday and I turned it off and couldn't get it to start right away, took about 30-45 seconds of turning over but it eventually started. I am going to pull throttle body completely off and clean it and test everything... I will let you know what I find out...

 

[98autogstspyder]

Yes, the ecu is a possible culprit. In that situation I would find a friend with the same ecu and try swapping out to see what it does. That is an easy way to find out without costing you anything as well eliminating another possibility.

Good luck, and when you find out what was causing your problem, be sure to come back and tell us.

 

[inxfernxo]

I've been having a strange problem. The car will run fine till it warms up. After which I get a little idle surge. I'll stop at a light with the car either in or out of gear and the idle will surge back and forth from 1000 rpm to 13-1500 rpm. It will surge 3 or 4 times then drop back to normal which is around 900 rpm. It doesn't do this all the time. It's somewhat intermittant, but it never does this when the car is cold. Any ideas?

I got the same prob on mine (non-turbo). Also if I shift to Neutral it will stay at around 1,500 to 1,800rpm. This happens to me usually after over an hour worth of driving, but on short trips it stays normal. I cleaned everything IAC, Throttlebody, checked the O-ring; it still does it once in a while.

 

[doggo]

Regarding how ECU is affected by ISC problems...read this it should clarify the issue.

http://www.dsmisc.com/dsmweb-dw/faqs.html

 

[hooptylaser]

good info here....thanks!!!

 

[springer11]

well i've been reading up on these idle surge problems and i can not figure it out. I've replace the ISC motor, cleaned the throttle body and other numerous things and i still can't figure it out. Every time i push in the clutch my motor idles anywhere from 2500 rpm-3500 rpms. And sometimes when i push my gas in, it dosn't react right away. If anyone had some advice for this it would greatly be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Got DSM]

Block off your FIAV. Honestly...I had idle problems for like a year, and it sucked. I tried everything from new ISC, MAS, idle screws, and finally I got the FIAV blocked off and woalah...it worked perfectly. Hope that helps.

 

[springer11]

Thanks everybody for the advice, I finally got my idle control problem fixed. But what happened with my car is when we replaced my hoses, because they were cracking, radiator fluid had dripped a little. It happened to drip on a temperature sensor, which shorted my sensor and made my car think it was cold all the time. So maybe some of you other guys might want to look into that, thanks again everybody.

 

[turbodreamslc]

i have a very simple ? i am a newby and am ashamed of asking this can anyone point me to the iac or iss or is it the same thing or different i have a horible idle surge.

 

[90dsmEclipseRCR]

ok, i have no idea what is going on. I have a 93 mitsu eclipse gs. just bought it from a guy i went to school with. when i got it it had no problems....but about a week ago it all of a sudden started going crazy on me. I was driving home and all of a sudden the car lost power throughout the entire rpm range. I would step on the gas and it wanted to bog out on me...I got to looking under the hood and thought I found the culprit....(the air intake couplings came loose and were choking it out)....but the car still had no power. I then took the intake off and tried driving....still was doing it.
I finally thought that the clutch was going out in it but talked to a few people and they said that the clutch wouldnt cause the car to bog out like and air/fuel problem or electrical problem.....but here is my delimma now...
ever since then the car hasn't been running right. when I go to start it up, it wont hold idle. I have done a little research and it is supposed to idle around 750-900 rpm. when i crank it over, it dies out unless i press on the accelerator and keep it revving out @ 2000-2300 rpm...and get the engine temp up to normal operating temps.....then it idles anywhere between 300-1200 rpm. I haven't got the faintest idea what i am doing. DSM's aren't my area of expertese. I just transfered over from toyota and i want to do this right. i am broke and dont really wnat to take the car to a shop if somone can help me try to pin point where the problem may be.
if anyone has any ideas, please contact me @ [email protected] thank you

 

[90dsmEclipseRCR]

Yay! I did a little more research in all the tech threads (even printed out over 150+ pages of TB's and guidance from other DSMers.

Here's what worked out for my 1993 Eclipse GS n/t:

After contemplating the major factors required for replacing the coils and other parts, I decided to take the easy way that someone reccommended.
1) Dissconnect my battery,
2) Pulled off my intake tube from the breather box and intake manifold,
3) Disconnected the MAS/MAF sensor (not sure what one my car has...),
4) Removed the filter element from the breather box,
5) Removed the MAS/MAF sensor from the filter element,
6) Removed the top cardboard starshaped filter with the metal ring,
7) Reattached the MAS/MAF sensor to the filter element,
8) Removed the breather box completly from the car,
9) Took a look at the wiring harness (because it was converted from an automatic to a manual) and seen 2 wires a pink and a pink w/ a blue stripe coming from the transmission. Reattaached the wires to the wiring harness (now my alarm works too!!)
10) Attached my filter setup back to the intake tube and hooked everything back up to the throttle body and intake manifold.
11) Reconnected the battery (also reset the computer)
12) Started the car. It had and idle of 500 rpm, so I adjusted the idle screw (not sure what technical term is)
13) Filled with silicone/RTV due to there not being a cap

The car runs fine now, it just popped back up with the check engine light though. Has to be the EGR valve. I have to change that and I am going to change the O2 sensor too since I know that has to be fouled out now too.

I hope this post helps out someone else. It is a little drawn out but to the point on how I fixed my 'idle surge'. If anyone needs any help let me know, I have pages upon pages saved on my computer that are on this topic. Just e-mail me @ [email protected] and put in the topic IDLE SURGE, or PM me on here with your contact info and I will get back to you.

Peace, Love, and DSMs
Anthony

P.S. Yes, I know my SN says 90dsmEclipseRCR. It was supposed to say 93dsmEclipseRCR. It was a typo. I hit the wrong button when I made my SN. Sorry.

 

[92tsidh21]

Hey recently got a 1992 talon tsi 5 speed, its stock under the hood. Im not having the surge issue, the car just dies. It will start, idle a bit, and flat out turn off. Car can run but i have to be on the throttle at lights or it will die. Is this the ISC stuck open, or is there something else wrong?
Appreciate the help.

 

[Steve91]

i have a 1g tsi and heres what my problem is: when the car is cold and i start it up, the idle sits at 2,100 rpm and as it warms up the rpms jump back and forth between 1500 and 2000 untill it is completely warmed up and then it idles fine...?

 

[GRAVEDIGGER]

i have a 1g tsi and heres what my problem is: when the car is cold and i start it up, the idle sits at 2,100 rpm and as it warms up the rpms jump back and forth between 1500 and 2000 untill it is completely warmed up and then it idles fine...?

Do a search with the keywords idle surge and you'll have enough reading material to figure it out. There are a few things to look at and there is really no easy answer for your problem. It is very common and could include a boost leak somewhere or could be a problem somewhere in the throttle body. Now go out there and search and read.

 

[Cagle101]

My 96 eclipse did the same thing... What I did to handle the situation was put seafoam in the motor... It cleaned my motor an passed inspection... Lol an only cost 8.00

 

[mopar dsmer]

I had this exact same problem with my current dsm, what I did was take out the throttle body and unscrew the bottom screw ofthe tps (throttle position sensor) and when I put it back together I just adjusted the tps till it stoped the idle surge. I still got it but it only idles within about 100 rpms from where it should be as apose to spanding 3 thousand and falling down.....put this was after I had replaced the iac (idle air control) valve. and wile your going to have to take the throttle body off in any situation I suggest you clean it

 

[KEEBS]

When I bought my 93 awd, it had a few of the DSM problems (clutch to the floor, idle surge, 3rd gear grinds...) Ive tried replacing the TPS along with the ISC. Also cleaning my TB. After all this, I still had the surge. After more reading I wonder how I could have missed the idle screw. After adjusting that I got my idle set around 900-1000 rpm. If I go lower my check engine light comes on, so I keep it a little high. NO MORE SURGE!
I dont have a programmer or anything, and I bought the car with a BOV already on it. it is adjustable ( + - ) vented out. I beleive that is giving me the additional problem (high idle)
Ive owed my DSM for 2 months now and Ive been learning more and more each day

thanks dsmtuners!

 

[boosted_3g]

ok i just recently traded my 3g for a 97 gst bc idk much ab turbos at the time so i waanted a car with one already hooked up and ready to go... this car has a upgraded 20g turbo with stock injectors(getting bigger ones soon) but that wasnt a problem unless you stomp the gas and then it gets a little jerky. well here recently my car just keeps dying sometimes its great and idles at ab 1200 rpm but when im at stop lights it gets very low rpms and just putts like its ab to die and sometimes it even does.... just asking what it could be and how i can try to fix it so i will appreciate any help thanks alot

 

[jarhead04]

Ok to continue with this thread.. im having the same problem... 96 rs sitting stock no mods at all.. i know im boring for now... car was running great until this morning i stopped at a light and the car went crazy... the rpms went up to 4k and stayed there i tapped the gas and they dropped to 700 or so.. then immediately went back up???? If it is in gear and i try and slow down at all without pressing the clutch.. the car jerks and pulls hard.. even by pressing the brakes it still tries to go... as soon as i press the clutch it shoots up to min. 4k..

Any ideas or help really really would be appreciated...