I need some technical knowledge help...

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by larryd
like if I needed it all port matched or not..

You don’t but I have said that… Larry you should find you way up to Reading some time we could talk Talons maybe the next event in mid june. I still think you need to find a local mentor that can answer questions and do labor cheap for you.

 

[crankbender]

rdrkt I think the problem is that before all this talk started I already knew what larry wanted and his current traction problems. For him to get a built motor, upgraded turbo, TB, intake, etc he could easily run 6 grand (remember he doesn't have all those parts already). I agree with you completely that you build a motor to support hp as well as some gains from reduced mechanical losses. But he is never going to use the motor to it's current stock potential so he shouldn't do it. Also I don't think you are having a motor built the same way I am. If you are going to do it you should do everything....if you can afford it

Larry in my opinion the best bang for the buck you can do is to get the TB, intake manni, a clutch, and the next step would be diff/slicks. the 2100 should hold you and will be less likely to cause crankwalk from what you told me about your thoughts (you being happy and trusting with your car is way more important than the time slips).

 

[TripleDigit]

I'd recommend waiting it out for a 6 bolt conversion since the 2G motor crank walk issues are just so damn common. With a 1G swap you get not only the better flowing head but you get the dual profile 1G cams, big rods, and big crank. What you lose is the 2G pistons. If you want to build something build a tired 1G 6 bolt. Depending on the head flow #'s you port for, in turn the turbocharger and rev limiter you select will determine what camshafts you need which determines if you need oversized valves and Heavy duty valve springs with Ti retainers. Confusing? It should be cause it's a big decision. I'd say if your budget allows for it go all the way... Something middle of the road for a 1G motor would be a mildly ported intake side of head and clean up the exhaust side, stainless 1 piece stock size valves and a good spring kit with a street grind Web Cam or HKS 264's... shot peened and magnafluxed 90-91 big rods, 95 spec pistons and rings, evo metal head gasket, arp fasteners. Balance it all up, (remove balance shafts, assemble it and have a ball.

 

[larryd]

ok just when it all started to make sense, now im confused again..hehe.. go figure.. Im learning though.. i think I pretty much know the answer to my own question..

for the power gain Im looking at Im thinking

1st gen TB, 91-94
1st gen Intake Manifold, (would 90 be ok, or 91-94 here too?)
2nd gen head port matched to 1st gen intake manifold
2nd gen exhaust manifold port matched to 2nd gen head
Big 28 turbo port matched to 2nd gen exhaust manifold

thats the basics.. then Im thinking about doing this

1st gen head with 1mm over sized valves along with crower cams, crower cam gears, crower springs and retainers and obviously a valve job. This is all depending on IF I can get the stuff for free or relatively close from Crower..

then the ?? comes down to if I have this nicely built head, Id prolly try and find a 6 bolt block and build it over time out of the car until it was all done and ready to be dropped in as a whole into my car..

everything make sense becuase I believe thats my course of action.. just need to know if that sounds good for what I want, and Im sure most of you know what I want by now, and the ? on the intake manifold years as well.. das all

 

[NosLaser]

...I am not going to say flat out that is wrong but it isn't making much sense to me to say that all turbo engines want a combustion chamber of 60cc. Can you explain this a little? ....


Absolutely. The ideal setup for a turbocharged car is to have a smallish combustion chamber, large valves, and dished pistons. Ideally, you don't want to go over 60cc's of combustion chamber volume. On a turbocharged application, you'll lose burn efficiency. You have a lot of cylinder pressure on a turbo car, this energy is ready to go off; it's so volatile, and the effect you are looking for is to get that energy as close to the spark plug as possible; you don't want it mushrooming out to the outer layers of the combustion chamber. When it does that, and it ignites out in the "outskirts" for lack of a better term, that is detonation. It's hard to explain on the internet, but basically, you want a dished piston to keep the air/fuel mixture in a nice tight ball of energy, and a smaller combustion chamber to keep it there. It is extremely important at this power level to cc all the combustion chambers so that they are the same volume. If you have differences in combustion chamber volume, it's like having differences in compression, and differences in burn efficiency. I hope this explains it a little better, again it is quite difficult to dissect what is really going on in there without getting into real technical terms, and using graph illustrations.

Regards,

 

[candela]

obviously the tb and intake manifold don't, but manifold to the head should be matched, also consider extrude honing the manifold, with your mods it would help a bit

 

[rdrkt]

Extrude honing is not worth the money at all. I have seen many people do and see no little to no results. You could get a sheetmetal intake mani for the price of a 1 gen + extrude.

 

[candela]

but the sheet metal intake need other mos as well

 

[crankbender]

What are you basing the 60cc on...why not 70cc or 50cc? that was the question.

another question is are you referring to the max or min area of the chamber? I can't understand why you would be referring to a max of 60cc but that was how I took it originally...why it was really confusing.

 

[larryd]

can anyone answer the ?? to my above post?

"everything make sense becuase I believe thats my course of action.. just need to know if that sounds good for what I want, and Im sure most of you know what I want by now, and the ? on the intake manifold years as well.. das all"

 

[crankbender]

I donno about the intake manifolds sorry. Port match the stuff if you can. If you are going to do a 1g head buildup you should look into getting a full 1g motor and doing a rebuild. Slightly more expensive but in the end you will get better rods and no crankwalk out of it...not to mention a spare. If you are planning on doing this make sure you portmatch the head and do no porting on the 1g parts. This way when you get the 1g head/engine you will not have to port match them to a serious degree.

Do the clutch and you will most likely see a huge gain in power to the wheels. Also with that power you may want to think about a second pair of wheels with slicks and a new diff. This stuff will help you get the power to the ground which is going to be a huge problem for ya here really soon (not that it isn't already).

On the plus side that car has got to scream from a roll...and it looks sweet as hell!

 

[larryd]

thanks for the info man, that makes sense.. I figured the only parts Ill port match if I drop the 1g parts on are the 2g parts to be the same size as the 1g parts.. that when when/if I switch to a built 1g head i dont have to port match it to anything..

Im thinking Im going to pick up an ACT 2100 and be happy with it..