I cant believe it! Fully built, $7500, 700 miles, and CRANKWALK!!

[NDgsx]

Talk to RRE about it.

 

[GRNDSM]

>I believe I will order that kit to accept the 1G oil squirter.

I am not sure if Magnus any longer believes that this was the only cause. From what I understand, they now only deal with 6bolt motors...

Leon
RR

 

[TotalEclipse98]

after hearing all this makes me wonder. I don't know If i am willing to drop $12,000+ into a 2g eclipse that i want more than anything....i mean a used 97 or 98 will have at least 50,000 miles or somewhere around there unless ur incredibly lucky, and in NJ..ur not especially with insurance and then have my engine walk less than 25thou miles later...seems like a big risk to me and im not too sure anymore and if i change my mind i dont have any kinda clue on what other kinda car i'd want..

 

[GRNDSM]

Well, there are a few things to keep in ming.

Late 98's and all 99's had newer style of thrust bearings which appear to be stronger. So there is a big differance between '97/early '98 and late '98 in this regard.

This condition should always be considered when buying '95-'97 cars...

But 1G motor in 2G conversions have become very commont and not all that much of trouble.

Leon
RR

 

[Violater101]

What is considered a Late 98 model? I have a build date of Jan98
Thanks,

 

[cead]

i heard a few cranks were made out of spec from the factory, did you get a new forged crank with the $7.5k?, you could have had and evo 6 swap w/ tranny and hooked it up for less, sorry for your loss dude, seriously...

 

[Mitsu_Racing]

Are you getting any kind of warentee on the motor from Extreme? And of coarse Extreme is gonna want you to use the CM2500, they had CM make it for them.

 

[tjh-dsm]

Originally posted by cead
i you could have had and evo 6 swap w/ tranny and hooked it up for less, sorry for your loss dude, seriously...

EVO 6 motor won't swap into a DSM, an EVO 3 will though. After the 3, they revised the layout making it impossible to swap into a DSM.

 

[cead]

not impossible, the evo 6 is oriented the same way as the 420a, the evo 3 is where the dsm gets its engine design with lower compression pistons (8.5 vs 8.7) smaller port exhaust manifold, smaller turbo, smaller o2 housing etc. due to us emissions and marketability. if the honda dudes can squeeze an h22 into a civic, you can place a '99 evo 6 engine/tranny combo with slight modifications (to the lower crossmember, mounts) the engine/tranny combination are within the same dimensions as the chrysler 420a, so space is not an issue, all you need is a guy handy with a welder to make your mounts and crossmember work. if you don't believe me, ask any pro drag racer about alien engine swaps, i work with two master techs that say anything's possible ie. the supra 7.

 

[tjh-dsm]

Ok, anything IS possible, but the amount you'd pay to have an EVO 6 engine fit in, you could make an EVO 3 engine built and much faster. You could fit a Chevy 350 in there too, ANYTHING is possible, but I was saying realistically and intelligently.

 

[NDgsx]

EVOs have crankwalked too. Doing that much work is downright dumb.

 

[cead]

the evo 6 swap comment i made was completely taken out of context....
i was referring to the cost of having a 7 bolt rebuilt vs. buying a newer engine with a warranty with $7.5k, pure speculation, that's all.

no car is immune to crankwalk, some are more likely to fail than others.
some turbo audi A4's come in the shop with crankwalk, a $30k car with less than 15k (model year 1996-1999) would pop up and the flywheel would have about an inch of play. i just hope the guy who blew $7.5k on his engine gets his money back so he can buy a buschur racing 6 bolt with all the bells and whistles www.buschurracing.com

 

[BryanK]

Nobody has assesed the validity of the clutch accumulator! I find this amazing... lets think about it, continuous load (albeit very slight) on the crank for 50K sounds like a pretty likely culprit to me, why am I the only one? This seems so simple and logic, why has this not been done/contemplated by any of the big names (Buschur, Magnus, Extreme, etc)? C'mon, somebody out there who is pretty knowledgeable on DSM's, help us out? Noslaser? Larry? GRNDSM? NDGSX? You're "dsmtuner wisemen" for a reason! I'm mostly just messing around, but seriously, I'd like to hear what some of you guys have to say about this.
Bryan

 

[Tevenor]

Originally posted by BryanK
Nobody has assesed the validity of the clutch accumulator! I find this amazing... lets think about it, continuous load (albeit very slight) on the crank for 50K sounds like a pretty likely culprit to me, why am I the only one? This seems so simple and logic, why has this not been done/contemplated by any of the big names (Buschur, Magnus, Extreme, etc)? C'mon, somebody out there who is pretty knowledgeable on DSM's, help us out? Noslaser? Larry? GRNDSM? NDGSX? You're "dsmtuner wisemen" for a reason! I'm mostly just messing around, but seriously, I'd like to hear what some of you guys have to say about this.
Bryan

I walked a well built 6-bolt block in my 96 with the clutch accumulator replaced with a SS clutch line, no clutch switch, and without holding in the clutch at lights. Although it could factor into it, it cannot be the cause of all of them.

 

[GRNDSM]

Bryan,

First of all, I am not a "wiseman" .

Second, very few people with modified cars have those accumulators in place. Usually, they are ether removed or replaced with the SST line.

So I doubt that they can cause this. Unfortunately, NO ONE has been able to come up with a solid reasoning for 2G crankwalk. And that is worst part about this . That is why I think that it was ludicrous for Extreme guarantee that it was caused by ACT clutch... I really like ACT clutches, but I only wish that the cure for crankwalk was that simple...

Leon
RR

 

[NosLaser]

...Nobody has assesed the validity of the clutch accumulator! I find this amazing... lets think about it, continuous load (albeit very slight) on the crank for 50K sounds like a pretty likely culprit to me, why am I the only one?...

The reason I haven't expanded on that is because I don't think it is the clutch/heavy pressure plate that causes crankwalk. It may slightly aggrevate an existing problem, but is it the root cause? In my opinion likely not. Let's all just think about this on a very basic level. Can we all agree that 2G's crankwalk more often than 1G's? (For those who are gonna come in wearing the Obvious hat, yes, I know 1G's crankwalk too...but not as often as 2G's.) For anyone that knows a lick about engines, it is a better design to have a large one piece main girdle than those little ridiculous main caps. Hell, they sell aftermarket block girdles for just that reason. I think based on that fact alone, the whole clutch idea has to be immediately thrown out because the only visible difference between the 6 bolt and 7 bolt motors is the main girdle as opposed to main caps. If it was the clutch, then it would happen just as often as 1G's. From my personal findings, when the girdle is torqued down, and the head is torqued down, the thrust area is 'tweaked' and can be as much as a couple thousandths out of spec. With the thrust bearing now pre-maturely mis-aligned, any number of things can contribute to the thrust bearing's ultimate failure. Again, in my opinion, I think the block isn't made as strong as the 1G blocks; and I'm taling down to the metalurgy itself. I think when the block is torqued, it loses shape worse than the 1G blocks. It could simply be Mitsubishi/Chrysler cutting down on costs. Use a less than ideal material and you save money; it always costs less when you don't do it right. This is why I though our little crankwalk fix was a viable option. Before the flaming began, I wasn't even aware of CRCO's dowel kit, but the crankwalk fix we had come up with took that a bit farther. There is a whole thread on it for those interested.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=8817&highlight=crankwalk

Anyway, there is my $.02 on the whole clutch issue.

Regards,

 

[GSX4LIFE]

Well, its all said and done, for now. I got the car back Wednesday, and it has been running great ever since. I have just over 300 miles on it, with no sighns of walking thus far. The CM2500 is avery depressing clutch, when pressing down the pedal. But it seems to grip very well. I just like that heavy pedal feel. I turned the boost up to 20psi, after putting 100miles of no boost whatsoever, as per Seans instructions. Tonight was the first time it has seen positive pressure since I got it back. 20psi on the L2R is AWESOME! The car feels ANGRY at this leval. I cant wait to get it to the track. Im paranoid as all Helll now, but everything seems to be OK. Its funny, when I picked it up, I asked Sean "Now Im not gonna have to cal you in another 700 miles with the same problem, right?" He kinda smiled and said "You wont have any more problems, Im sure of it." Just like that. He better be right.

Cars running Great, low 12s here I come!

 

[Blue97GST]

Best of luck, guy.

 

[ILOSE]

Hope everything goes well for you. but if it doesn't will you get it fixed and your $2000, back?

 

[Tevenor]

That's the most expensive $9500 low 12's I have ever seen.

 

[GSX4LIFE]

Originally posted by Tevenor
That's the most expensive $9500 low 12's I have ever seen.

Yes. Thank you. I think everybody here is aware of that. Honestly, what made you feel you needed to flex your infinate knowledge on me?

 

[ClutchTSI/AWD]

you guys got me so paranoied about my motor after reading all these threads.

 

[GRNDSM]

>Honestly, what made you feel you needed to flex your infinate
>knowledge on me?

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't YOU get on this board and ASKED for people's opinions?

Anyway, I whish you best of luck! That is a LOT of money to spend if it does not work... Did EMS tell you what they did for extra $2k?

Leon
RR

 

[696]

I like to know how that clutch holds up. If it does a good job I might look at getting one.
696

 

[Tevenor]

Originally posted by GSX4LIFE

Yes. Thank you. I think everybody here is aware of that. Honestly, what made you feel you needed to flex your infinate knowledge on me?

It's real simple. You came to us. We didn't come take a crap in your living room and expect you to like it.

$7500 was way too much. We told you this. We told you you were getting hosed. You blew it off. Then you payed another $2000 to fix it. So now you are out of pocket $9500. And instead of listening to what the people on this board were trying to tell you, you went ahead and paid it.

In other words, deal with it. It seems you are ok with that price tag. I would have had a #@%#@%#@%#@% when they told me $7500 in the first place before they ever built the crankwalking POS. Fock that. I will build my own for $1500 or a complete long block or have half a dozen other places build be a block for $2000. And still run 12's.

And for the record, I was right where you were not too long ago. My only car, needing a new engine because of crankwalk. And like you, I sent it to the closest reputable shop I knew: Magnus Motorsports. Here is some kid from NY dropping his car off to get a 6-bolt thrown in it. It ended up being the first 1G cas in a 2G engine swap car. So I know where you were coming from. And thats why it ticks me off even more than you are willing to accept the $9500 price tag.

Se la vie'.