help with 1g mas question

[killer_eclipse]

ok so ive been helping a buddy of mine with his gsx. he has a hacked 1g mas, 3in turbo back, 14b, fmic, stock fuel system...
Now i have been tring to help him tune his car because when we hooked the datalogger to it there was tons of knock and whe cannot get rid of it now what i was wouldering is about the mas. Could i, sence i dont have the stock honeycome, just block the lower chanber with a piece of sheet metal so the mas will meter closer to the correct amount of air.

 

[fwdmaster]

Hacking the lower honeycomb of the 1g mass has nothing to do with knock, btw how old is the knock sensor on your buddies car?

 

[killer_eclipse]

actualy it does.. it causes there to be unmetered air in turn you run lean causeing knock.also causes higher timing witch gives greater chances of knock..
the know sensor is new. and yes he has an safc but i have added as much as 15% up top and were still geting knock i mainly think its because of his 28 - 30* of timing advance.
so back to the question will blocking of the lower chamber work?

 

[Mr4G]

I would not block off the lower chamber due to the fact that now the maf sensor is not performing it's job correctly. You answered your own problem with the knock issue!! Stock fuel system, 30 degrees timing. Thats insane, what you are doing is causing the injectors to go to full duty cycle. Your maxing your fuel pump and injectors out. In my experiences i have never had to go 15% richer correction on a 14b with a stock fuel system. back your timing out, 0 out your correction and take it from there.

 

[killer_eclipse]

yah we did that three times now always end up in the same place... i just remember though i have an old broke 2g mass ill pull one of the honeycomes from that thanks for the help though...

 

[604CruisinCroat]

yah we did that three times now always end up in the same place... i just remember though i have an old broke 2g mass ill pull one of the honeycomes from that thanks for the help though...

Upgrade your fuel system bud.

 

[killer_eclipse]

the stock fuel system should be fine he is only running 10 psi

 

[Mr4G]

What did you do 3 times?? Back the timing out? Your ways of tuning are all wrong. I would highly suggest setting your base timing first. That will be a positive start. Also, the honeycombs from a 2g mas wont fit in the 1g mas, they are different shapes, listen to what we are telling you. If you are running a stock fuel system then set your base timing, zero out the afc, lower the boost to about 14 or 15psi and go from there. Slowly work your way up to the timing and boost level you desire. If your picking up uncontrollable knock still at base timing and lower boost then i would say something is going a mess in the engine!!! Doing what i say will yeild you the results in eliminating what possibilities are causing the knock!

 

[jlr2196]

Can't believe nobody has asked how much boost you're running?
Is the timing set properly? I don't feel that a hacked mas is causing knock, it's the lack of being able to properly tune then engine. You are right that the engine is getting more air with the hacked mas but then that tells me you can't give the engine enough fuel at the boost level you are running or you have too much timing which you cannot control with a safc.

 

[Mr4G]

Yes i should've asked how much boost he was running, but unfortunatly i assumed, which is a no no!! well, i ll stick to the timing issue and if that doesnt work then i would say something is going sour in your engine.

 

[killer_eclipse]

he is running 10 psi and checking base timing is the first thing i did its at 5*... the car is basically stock ther than the front mount and exhaust... thats why i said there is no need to upgrade the fuel system

 

[jlr2196]

Hard to believe you only hit 10 psi on stock unported 14b setup with 3" exhaust? Every time somebody puts 3" exhaust with a 14b or 16g with no porting they boost creep very bad. Timing you are hitting sure seems high as well at 28-30* if the base timing is set to 5*, the base timing map doesn't even go that high at 10 psi. Try turning base timing down to 0 & see what happens.

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[GettinPaper]

Hard to believe you only hit 10 psi on stock unported 14b setup with 3" exhaust? Every time somebody puts 3" exhaust with a 14b or 16g with no porting they boost creep very bad. Timing you are hitting sure seems high as well at 28-30* if the base timing is set to 5*, the base timing map doesn't even go that high at 10 psi. Try turning base timing down to 0 & see what happens.

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vouch, i have full 3inch , unported with my 14b and it creep's like a mofo.
I <3 the spikes though.

 

[killer_eclipse]

sorry forgot to mention i did mr. peepers mod to the wastegate for him a couple weeks ago thats whty he is able to hit ten solid and as far as turning the timing back to 0* i shouldent have to. I had no problems with my laser when i had the same setup the only differene was the mas, i didnt hack mine.

 

[jlr2196]

Well, I don't understand how you can hit 28-30* of timing at 10 psi when the stock 1G timing map doesn't even go that high unless your timing is not adjusted properly. Of course you may need to go over your log, if you have that capability and see if your numbers are corresponding to the 1G timing map I posted for you. So let's say the MAS is the problem & since you are pulling in more air that the ecu cannot monitor hence keeping the timing up why not try & back off your timing to 0*. It's a band-aid solution but so is an SAFC.

 

[killer_eclipse]

problem solved... i pulled the honeycome from the broken 2g mas i had and cut it to fit the lower chamber of the 1g and bam everything works great. max timing at 10 psi is about 21 at 6200 rpm