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(AWD)kaaz rear lsd for 95-99.

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DSMReviver

15+ Year Contributor
1,134
80
Mar 4, 2008
Little Rock, Arkansas
i just wanted to find out if anybody had installed kaaz rear lsd(mechanical type/clutch type). its listed as part number SBM2031 on kaaz online shopping web site. i am ready to replace the weak factory viscous lsd to something better. kaaz lsd will offers better performance that being full time mechanical(sold) lsd on the track. also which vendors on dsmtuners offer this product.

Kaaz AWD rear LSD 1.5 way for dsm 1995-1999...
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'93.05-99.08 TURBO(AWD)

SBM2031 super Q series...
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Opps i posted this in the wrong section, plese move me to drivetrain section... thanks...
 
I've been told the clutch packs wear out pretty quick. Here what Charles told me on link fourm.

"I run a Kaaz 1.5 way in my autocrosser. It wears out pretty quickly in my application, it really needs fresh clutch packs every season. Use Kaaz oil only, unless you get a kick out of stripping & cleaning your LSD on a monthly basis.

I am seriously considering switching to a Cusco 1.5 if I can't get the Kaaz to last longer."


Hope that helps.

Kevin
 
I've been told the clutch packs wear out pretty quick. Here what Charles told me on link fourm.

"I run a Kaaz 1.5 way in my autocrosser. It wears out pretty quickly in my application, it really needs fresh clutch packs every season. Use Kaaz oil only, unless you get a kick out of stripping & cleaning your LSD on a monthly basis.

I am seriously considering switching to a Cusco 1.5 if I can't get the Kaaz to last longer."


Hope that helps.

Kevin

u know I looked at cuscos too and they don't sell rear mechanical LSD's for awd dsm's. Unless I've over looked, they sell evo3's I know that

the evo III oem rear lsd's , they are clutch types
they should come cheap

if u know of one please let me know. I thought that the evo's and dsm have different rear gear ratios evo is 3.9 and dsm have 3.545. Is this true, if that's the case idk how that will work

This is true. TRE used to sell them but who knows if they still have any.

Linkavich

u know I looked at tre web site and saw the same thing, I've email and try calling a bunch of times with no answer. Anybody know if they r doing any rear lsd diff service?
 
you are going to be hard pressed to find a whole evo3 rearend with the gears. You may find a evo3 diff wihich is all you need. also the evo 8 rear diffs are the same as ours so anything that will fit in an evo8 should fit in a dsm either stock cusco or kaas carbonetic, etc. You can pick up a used evo8 for usually around $700ish that is in good shape. So there you go,

If you do find a evo3 rear ring and pinion let me know I could use one!!
 
you are going to be hard pressed to find a whole evo3 rearend with the gears. You may find a evo3 diff wihich is all you need. also the evo 8 rear diffs are the same as ours so anything that will fit in an evo8 should fit in a dsm either stock cusco or kaas carbonetic, etc. You can pick up a used evo8 for usually around $700ish that is in good shape. So there you go,

If you do find a evo3 rear ring and pinion let me know I could use one!!

All true!

Kevin
 
i can get u good condition evo III rear lsd's , you dont have to use the gears, you may use yours back
just get the diffrential , i have about 3 of them over here
 
you are going to be hard pressed to find a whole evo3 rearend with the gears. You may find a evo3 diff wihich is all you need. also the evo 8 rear diffs are the same as ours so anything that will fit in an evo8 should fit in a dsm either stock cusco or kaas carbonetic, etc. You can pick up a used evo8 for usually around $700ish that is in good shape. So there you go,

If you do find a evo3 rear ring and pinion let me know I could use one!!

so what is it again, i am confused even more now. but, its getting into very interesting techanical discussion. i am even more interested now that there might be alternative solution to getting cheap rear solid lsd's in our dsm's. what is needed to make it work again? im not having full understanding on ring and pinion that is needed off of evo 3's?

All true!

do you know anyboy that done this?

i can get u good condition evo III rear lsd's , you dont have to use the gears, you may use yours back
just get the diffrential , i have about 3 of them over here

i know that you are form out of the united states but do you have any distributors here in the states where i can locally pick one up? i am a little hesitatent to buy anything out of the states right now form past experience.

i would like to get one of them form you for sure. if you have any ring and pinion form evo'3 laying around i would love to pick them up too.
 
so what is it again, i am confused even more now. but, its getting into very interesting techanical discussion. i am even more interested now that there might be alternative solution to getting cheap rear solid lsd's in our dsm's. what is needed to make it work again? im not having full understanding on ring and pinion that is needed off of evo 3's?

All true!

do you know anyboy that done this?



i know that you are form out of the united states but do you have any distributors here in the states where i can locally pick one up? i am a little hesitatent to buy anything out of the states right now form past experience.

i would like to get one of them form you for sure. if you have any ring and pinion form evo'3 laying around i would love to pick them up too.

The diff is bolted to the ring and the ring meshes with the pinion(90*) angle to te ring. You only need the diff.

Also in order to use the rear ring and pinion out of an evo3 you also have to have the transfercase and front ring and pinion out of an evo3. Or have a full evo3 tranny with the right gear set. so if you just put in the rear ring and pinion you will blow up the drivetrain as they are not geared the same as a dsm.

i can get u good condition evo III rear lsd's , you dont have to use the gears, you may use yours back
just get the diffrential , i have about 3 of them over here

do you have the rear end gears (ring and pinion) out of a evo3? I would be interested in that if you do. Send me a pm please!
 
so what is it again, i am confused even more now. but, its getting into very interesting techanical discussion. i am even more interested now that there might be alternative solution to getting cheap rear solid lsd's in our dsm's. what is needed to make it work again? im not having full understanding on ring and pinion that is needed off of evo 3's?



The diff is bolted to the ring and the ring meshes with the pinion(90*) angle to te ring. You only need the diff.

Also in order to use the rear ring and pinion out of an evo3 you also have to have the transfercase and front ring and pinion out of an evo3. Or have a full evo3 tranny with the right gear set. so if you just put in the rear ring and pinion you will blow up the drivetrain as they are not geared the same as a dsm.



do you have the rear end gears (ring and pinion) out of a evo3? I would be interested in that if you do. Send me a pm please!

yeah just talk to jon at TRE and he said he is out of evo 3's rear end now but if i could provide him with one he can do it. he said he can make it to work with our 2g 3.545 rear gears so there is no need for evo 3 transfer case or tranny(very good news). but now hard part is finding evo 3's rear end with lsd in the states. anybody that got one plez let me know.

i'd talk to Jacks Transmissions LLC — Welcome. From all I've read they are really good at communcation and do great work. i'm sure he could help you.

Kevin

does he do 2g rear end conversion, to evo 3 lsd. i thought he only to do tranny and rebuild transfercase. yeah i got my tranny rebuild form him a year ago and works great. but i will definitely give him a shout.

im just waiting to hear what jack is gonna say first, but either way i am going to need evo3 rear solid lsd first. im not sure who i want to send it yet TRE or JACKS but, hopefully ill find out tomorrow. ive already got spare 2g rear viscous diff so now i just need evo III lsd.
 
yeah just talk to jon at TRE and he said he is out of evo 3's rear end now but if i could provide him with one he can do it. he said he can make it to work with our 2g 3.545 rear gears so there is no need for evo 3 transfer case or tranny(very good news). but now hard part is finding evo 3's rear end with lsd in the states. anybody that got one plez let me know.



does he do 2g rear end conversion, to evo 3 lsd. i thought he only to do tranny and rebuild transfer-case. yeah i got my tranny rebuild form him a year ago and works great. but i will definitely give him a shout.

im just waiting to hear what jack is gonna say first, but either way i am going to need evo3 rear solid lsd first. I'm not sure who i want to send it yet TRE or JACKS but, hopefully ill find out tomorrow. ive already got spare 2g rear viscous diff so now i just need evo III lsd.

First, try to slow down and type, (not trying to be a dick, i'm just saying). I bought an evo3 diff from Jon a while back but he was close to out of them. If you get an evo3 rear diff you are also going to need the rear axels out of a NON-LSD DSM rear-end. Again The dsm rear lsd axels will NOT work in an evo3 lsd diff. You use your stock rear-end gears and just swap out the diff, all you use is the diff.

If you want to use the evo3 rear end gears you will have to have an evo3 transmission and transfercase. These are shorter all the way around and will shorten up your top end (think honda-ish). Other wise you have to change out the front diff ring and pinion and you still need an evo3 transfer-case. Otherwise it will not work!

If you have any more questions feel free to ask I hope that this helps. Also I have a friend that bought a tranny from Jack and I bought a few things from Jon (tranny, taller 5th gears, evo3 rear-end front lsd) either is a good choice.
 
turbo addict's suggestion to retain your current rear diff and just swap in the 3.909 ring & pinion is the easiest approach. As an FYI, the 3.909 rear diff also works with EVO I, II and specific JDM GVR4 RS. The thing to really watch for are matching trannies that have and open front LSD. The problem with these have something to do with mating it to USDM axle(s). I don't recall the specifics at the moment.

Also, the EVO III TC is not different from DSM (1/2G) or GVR4 TCs so it is not necessary to find and EVO III TC. As to the 3.909 rear diff or ring & pinion, if you cannot locate one but you have an EVO I-III (or GVR4 RS tranny that requires the 3.909 rear diff), you can make it work with your stock 3.545 rear diff by swapping the final drive with those from a USDM tranny.

BTW DSMReviver and all, have you or anyone you know been able to recently get a hold of Jon/TRE? Been trying to email him for some time and have received no answer, with no ability to leave a VM. I need to follow-up on a tranny for which I OK'd mods.
 
First, try to slow down and type, (not trying to be a dick, i'm just saying). I bought an evo3 diff from Jon a while back but he was close to out of them. If you get an evo3 rear diff you are also going to need the rear axels out of a NON-LSD DSM rear-end. Again The dsm rear lsd axels will NOT work in an evo3 lsd diff. You use your stock rear-end gears and just swap out the diff, all you use is the diff.

If you want to use the evo3 rear end gears you will have to have an evo3 transmission and transfercase. These are shorter all the way around and will shorten up your top end (think honda-ish). Other wise you have to change out the front diff ring and pinion and you still need an evo3 transfer-case. Otherwise it will not work!

If you have any more questions feel free to ask I hope that this helps. Also I have a friend that bought a tranny from Jack and I bought a few things from Jon (tranny, taller 5th gears, evo3 rear-end front lsd) either is a good choice.

ok so the easiest way is to get evo lsd or aftermarket evo lsd's and put them in our 2g rear diff. right...

EVO(I-III) lsd + 2g rear diff = 2g rear lsd diffs

OR

EVO(I-VII) aftermarket lsd + 2g rear diff = 2g rear aftermarket lsd diff

Please feel free to correct me if im wrong. my plann is not to use the whole evo 3 diff in my 2g's but only to use the lsd's of off evo 3. in thats case i would only need the lsd of off evo 3 and put it in the 2g rear diff in place of viscous. this seem to be the most easiest to do if i understant it correctly. i would not need any other parts off of evo 3 diff right? just the lsd correct?

thanks....

yeah i was able to contact with TRE after my 6th call so just keep trying. havent heard form jack yet.
 
turbo addict's suggestion to retain your current rear diff and just swap in the 3.909 ring & pinion is the easiest approach. As an FYI, the 3.909 rear diff also works with EVO I, II and specific JDM GVR4 RS. The thing to really watch for are matching trannies that have and open front LSD. The problem with these have something to do with mating it to USDM axle(s). I don't recall the specifics at the moment.

Also, the EVO III TC is not different from DSM (1/2G) or GVR4 TCs so it is not necessary to find and EVO III TC. As to the 3.909 rear diff or ring & pinion, if you cannot locate one but you have an EVO I-III (or GVR4 RS tranny that requires the 3.909 rear diff), you can make it work with your stock 3.545 rear diff by swapping the final drive with those from a USDM tranny.

BTW DSMReviver and all, have you or anyone you know been able to recently get a hold of Jon/TRE? Been trying to email him for some time and have received no answer, with no ability to leave a VM. I need to follow-up on a tranny for which I OK'd mods.

the dsms are different between the early and late 2gs. what ratios are they if they are all the same??? if you mix and match shit it will break. if you dont know something dont post false info! They look the same and bolt up the same but they may not have the same ratio.

ok so the easiest way is to get evo lsd or aftermarket evo lsd's and put them in our 2g rear diff. right...

EVO(I-III) lsd + 2g rear diff = 2g rear lsd diffs

OR

EVO(I-VII) aftermarket lsd + 2g rear diff = 2g rear aftermarket lsd diff

Please feel free to correct me if im wrong. my plann is not to use the whole evo 3 diff in my 2g's but only to use the lsd's of off evo 3. in thats case i would only need the lsd of off evo 3 and put it in the 2g rear diff in place of viscous. this seem to be the most easiest to do if i understant it correctly. i would not need any other parts off of evo 3 diff right? just the lsd correct?

thanks....

yeah i was able to contact with TRE after my 6th call so just keep trying. havent heard form jack yet.

Now, the diff IS the lsd; they are one unit on the front and rear diffs on our cars. the center diff can go either way but I dont want to confuse you any more. So you keep your rear housing (pumpkin and gears aka ring and pinion) and you install or have installed the evo3 or evo8 or aftermarket diff into your pumpkin with your gears. does that make sense?

again if you want to use the evo3 3.909 you need the front ring and pinion inside your tranny replaced with the evo3, and the evo 1,2 have a different front diff ratio than the evo3 so you need to have the matching tcase for whatever gearset you use. You are really trying too hard with changing the gears all out. the diff is suppose to be a big upgrade. ask either jon or jack and see what they would charge to change all of it around, gears all through the tranny I am curious to see what they say. because I was told just over a $1000 to change out the tranny stuff not including the rearend which was over $800 to get installed. then you still have to buy the 3.909 ring and pinion. so you are looking at right at $2000 if you have a good tranny to convert to evo3 spec (also keep in mind that this does not include the 1-5 gears just swaping the gears to the front diff and buying them and install shipping but still using your 1-5 gears).

Or just the rear end and use your stuff and have the good evo3/8 lsd diff. which with shipping as I said was over $800. ***Also, you need to remember that you MUST have the NON-LSD dsm axles. The lsd axels will not work. I have been dicking with this stuff all winter figuring out what goes with what. I am trying to help and sort out your questions and the bad info. I will say that I am not, the end all and know everything but this is what I have learned after messing with it all.

again, any questions fire away.
 
I have been running the Kaaz rear LSD for some years. Back when I was running 245 section race tyres and pulling around 1-1.25G I was very happy with the unit, it was dramatically more effective than the VC diff it replaced.

When I moved to 285 tyres and the lateral G jumped significantly, the Kaaz could no longer cope. It started to wear so quickly that I was driving a different car every weekend; it got to the point I was pulling the LSD once a month, reshimming it and reconfiguring the locking factor to try and keep it working. Not so much fun. I should emphasise however, that I was perfectly happy with the Kaaz until I went to the 285s, so if you're not planning on pulling over 1.5G constantly, the Kaaz should be perfectly fine.

Currently I have TRE's Evo III Max-Lock, however that car hasn't turned a wheel in anger yet, so I can't be 100% certain this is the magic bullet. I have driven a couple of Evos with TRE's Max-Lock rear and it is definitely the magic bullet for those cars, so I'm pretty confident it will be the solution for my car.

If you check with Kaaz and Cusco, you will see that there is only one part # for the rear diff, and it cover's late 1G AWDs, all 2G AWDs and all Evos up to the Evo 9, so it stands to reason that any Evo diff can be built into a DSM rear housing. This is what I did with my Kaaz, reusing my existing crown wheel gear, so all of these rear ends must use the same dimensioned crown wheel, even if it is a different ratio. Indeed, Jon @ TRE confirmed earlier that an Evo 8/9 LSD can be built into the 2G diff housing, so if you come up with a used 8/9 LSD, Jon can Max-Lock it and build it into your housing. I feel very confident recommending this setup.

Hope this helps,
Charles

Edit - I should add that you MUST use non-LSD axles - neither LSD axle will fit (properly) and I have bothe the debris and the DNFs to prove it. You cannot swap Non-LSD inner cups onto LSD axles as the inboard splines on the axle shaft are different. Raxles has the parts to do such a swap, but they're not easily available. The axle shaft moves with the inner cup, the outer CVs are all the same (aside from the ABS ring) and can be swapped onto any axle shaft. RRE and Kaaz can provide an early Evo inner cup that does match the LSD axle shaft splines.
 
the dsms are different between the early and late 2gs. what ratios are they if they are all the same??? if you mix and match shit it will break. if you dont know something dont post false info! They look the same and bolt up the same but they may not have the same ratio.

Now, the diff IS the lsd; they are one unit on the front and rear diffs on our cars. the center diff can go either way but I dont want to confuse you any more. So you keep your rear housing (pumpkin and gears aka ring and pinion) and you install or have installed the evo3 or evo8 or aftermarket diff into your pumpkin with your gears. does that make sense?

again if you want to use the evo3 3.909 you need the front ring and pinion inside your tranny replaced with the evo3, and the evo 1,2 have a different front diff ratio than the evo3 so you need to have the matching tcase for whatever gearset you use. You are really trying too hard with changing the gears all out. the diff is suppose to be a big upgrade. ask either jon or jack and see what they would charge to change all of it around, gears all through the tranny I am curious to see what they say. because I was told just over a $1000 to change out the tranny stuff not including the rearend which was over $800 to get installed. then you still have to buy the 3.909 ring and pinion. so you are looking at right at $2000 if you have a good tranny to convert to evo3 spec (also keep in mind that this does not include the 1-5 gears just swaping the gears to the front diff and buying them and install shipping but still using your 1-5 gears).

Or just the rear end and use your stuff and have the good evo3/8 lsd diff. which with shipping as I said was over $800. ***Also, you need to remember that you MUST have the NON-LSD dsm axles. The lsd axels will not work. I have been dicking with this stuff all winter figuring out what goes with what. I am trying to help and sort out your questions and the bad info. I will say that I am not, the end all and know everything but this is what I have learned after messing with it all.

again, any questions fire away.

ok, i am a little clear now that i read this and talk to jon at TRE once again. here is my plann now that i actually have more ideas.

using the whole evo 3 diff is going to be too much work on my 2g. if i do that i need evo 3 tranny and transfercase on the 2g which will required pain in the ass work.LOL. even if i used evo 3 gears or what not is going to cost some $$$. my plan on using the evo 3 diff on 2g is going to be drop because of the complications.

Now this is my plann... (1) find aftermarket evo I-VIII stock or aftermarket LSD's. (2) use my 2g rear diff/housing and send it to TRE or JACK and have the LSD's put in. this way i wount need to use non-lsd axles.what u think about that.

i appericiate your information about this subject matter. im sure this discussion will come to help alot of dsmer that might have the same question.

I have been running the Kaaz rear LSD for some years. Back when I was running 245 section race tyres and pulling around 1-1.25G I was very happy with the unit, it was dramatically more effective than the VC diff it replaced.

When I moved to 285 tyres and the lateral G jumped significantly, the Kaaz could no longer cope. It started to wear so quickly that I was driving a different car every weekend; it got to the point I was pulling the LSD once a month, reshimming it and reconfiguring the locking factor to try and keep it working. Not so much fun. I should emphasise however, that I was perfectly happy with the Kaaz until I went to the 285s, so if you're not planning on pulling over 1.5G constantly, the Kaaz should be perfectly fine.

Currently I have TRE's Evo III Max-Lock, however that car hasn't turned a wheel in anger yet, so I can't be 100% certain this is the magic bullet. I have driven a couple of Evos with TRE's Max-Lock rear and it is definitely the magic bullet for those cars, so I'm pretty confident it will be the solution for my car.

If you check with Kaaz and Cusco, you will see that there is only one part # for the rear diff, and it cover's late 1G AWDs, all 2G AWDs and all Evos up to the Evo 9, so it stands to reason that any Evo diff can be built into a DSM rear housing. This is what I did with my Kaaz, reusing my existing crown wheel gear, so all of these rear ends must use the same dimensioned crown wheel, even if it is a different ratio. Indeed, Jon @ TRE confirmed earlier that an Evo 8/9 LSD can be built into the 2G diff housing, so if you come up with a used 8/9 LSD, Jon can Max-Lock it and build it into your housing. I feel very confident recommending this setup.

Hope this helps,
Charles

Edit - I should add that you MUST use non-LSD axles - neither LSD axle will fit (properly) and I have bothe the debris and the DNFs to prove it. You cannot swap Non-LSD inner cups onto LSD axles as the inboard splines on the axle shaft are different. Raxles has the parts to do such a swap, but they're not easily available. The axle shaft moves with the inner cup, the outer CVs are all the same (aside from the ABS ring) and can be swapped onto any axle shaft. RRE and Kaaz can provide an early Evo inner cup that does match the LSD axle shaft splines.

WOW this is a great information, thank you. i have heard of Max-lock thing but never understood the inner workings. How is Max-lock work and do you use aftermarket lsd. did you end up reusing the kaaz in your 2g diff and have jon Max-lock it, is that what you have done.
 
the dsms are different between the early and late 2gs. what ratios are they if they are all the same??? if you mix and match shit it will break. if you dont know something dont post false info! They look the same and bolt up the same but they may not have the same ratio.



ok, i am a little clear now that i read this and talk to jon at TRE once again. here is my plann now that i actually have more ideas.

using the whole evo 3 diff is going to be too much work on my 2g. if i do that i need evo 3 tranny and transfercase on the 2g which will required pain in the ass work.LOL. even if i used evo 3 gears or what not is going to cost some $$$. my plan on using the evo 3 diff on 2g is going to be drop because of the complications.

Now this is my plann... (1) find aftermarket evo I-VIII stock or aftermarket LSD's. (2) use my 2g rear diff/housing and send it to TRE or JACK and have the LSD's put in. this way i wount need to use non-lsd axles.what u think about that.

i appericiate your information about this subject matter. im sure this discussion will come to help alot of dsmer that might have the same question.



WOW this is a great information, thank you. i have heard of Max-lock thing but never understood the inner workings. How is Max-lock work and do you use aftermarket lsd. did you end up reusing the kaaz in your 2g diff and have jon Max-lock it, is that what you have done.

Thw max-lock is that ACM is talking about is what Jon from TRE call him modding a evo3/8 rearend to take more clutches and have better locking ablity. So it is a stock evo diff that works better (locks harder) than it did from the factory. This puts it in the relm of an aftermarket diff.
 
Thw max-lock is that ACM is talking about is what Jon from TRE call him modding a evo3/8 rearend to take more clutches and have better locking ablity. So it is a stock evo diff that works better (locks harder) than it did from the factory. This puts it in the relm of an aftermarket diff.

Awsome, this is what i will do now. find me an evo lsd and put it in 2g diff housing. but the challenge now is finding one. ive search and so far i havent find one used. if anybody know any good places let me know.
 
Awsome, this is what i will do now. find me an evo lsd and put it in 2g diff housing. but the challenge now is finding one. ive search and so far i havent find one used. if anybody know any good places let me know.

for an evo3 you are looking at a jdm importer or ebay. there were a couple on ebay that were aftermarket rear lsd diffs. Another option is buying a evo8 rear diff. A good place to look for these is on evolutionm forum. either under engine orfullpart outs, as often when peoplewreck their evos they part them out. Problem is is that they usually go for $600-900 depending on miles.

Good luck;-) and tell how it works out.
 
for an evo3 you are looking at a jdm importer or ebay. there were a couple on ebay that were aftermarket rear lsd diffs. Another option is buying a evo8 rear diff. A good place to look for these is on evolutionm forum. either under engine orfullpart outs, as often when peoplewreck their evos they part them out. Problem is is that they usually go for $600-900 depending on miles.

Good luck;-) and tell how it works out.

This has been a good thread and learned a lot of stuff that i didn't know. hopefully this post will help people who wanted to look into converting their viscous to mechanical lsd's. in the mean time i will continue to search for evo lsd's or aftermarket lsd to put in. when i do manage to get them installed i will post a review or write faq's together so everyone will benefit. thanks for everyone who provided with useful info on this subject matter, and u too man thanks turboaddict.
 
This has been a good thread and learned a lot of stuff that i didn't know. hopefully this post will help people who wanted to look into converting their viscous to mechanical lsd's. in the mean time i will continue to search for evo lsd's or aftermarket lsd to put in. when i do manage to get them installed i will post a review or write faq's together so everyone will benefit. thanks for everyone who provided with useful info on this subject matter, and u too man thanks turboaddict.

glad I could help:)
 
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