Automatic vs. Manual

[audiousECLIPSE]

Why is an Automatic really so bad?

They're faster in the 1/4 mile than a manual and easier to use.

So what is the big deal?

 

[clownface]

There not faster in the 1/4, who told you that? stock-stock a manual is faster. Automatics have a bigger driveline power loss then a manual, you less control over the car, cant launch the way you can in a manual. With a shift kit and some other work i can see how maybe a auto would be desirable on a drag strip but manaul still has its perks and i wouldnt got auto for anything, but on a road race type thing/autoX or something auto is gonna lose out no matter what i would think.

 

[tlnpwr]

all i gotta say is im glad i got a stick.

 

[DSMESi98TFJ]

I have an automatic and all I can say is I wish I had a stick, a hell of alot faster.

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

automatic- 205hp, 220tq 1/4 15-15.5
manual-210hp, 214tq 1/4 14.7-15

Manual will always be faster except for some old muscle cars. Manual has less loss through the drivetrain and can rev to a presise point in the rpm band, which makes a BIG difference. Revving to high causes fall off in power and revving not enough causes you to not make full power. Even with a shift kit youll still be slower than a manual...no matter turbo or not.
Andrew

 

[eclipsegsx9797]

if i would have got auto i would have kiled my self about this time. so glad i got stick. unless you plan on running very low number such as 6 in the 1/4 i would go stick you will see the most out of it.

 

[ypnas777]

With a nice shift kit and a torque converter as long with some suspension mods and sticky tires an auto could def keep up with a manual. Also, with an auto u can build boost off the line and u dont lose boost in between shifts and an auto transmission with a shift kit will shift waaaaay faster than a human with a stick. Yes, it is more expensive to make an auto fast but its worth it in the end. I have an auto and i dont regret it.

 

[MrPikolo]

Originally posted by DSMeclipse4G63
automatic- 205hp, 220tq 1/4 15-15.5
manual-210hp, 214tq 1/4 14.7-15

Manual will always be faster except for some old muscle cars. Manual has less loss through the drivetrain and can rev to a presise point in the rpm band, which makes a BIG difference. Revving to high causes fall off in power and revving not enough causes you to not make full power. Even with a shift kit youll still be slower than a manual...no matter turbo or not.
Andrew

A manual won't always be faster(I am assuming you are saying both cars have the same modifcations) than except for some old muscle cars.

- An auto will mosltly outshift a manual.
- The automatic in the DSMs is a 4-speed. Less and quicker shifting.
- The turbocharger does matter quite a bit for the automatic transmssion. You are able to build boost off of the line by powerbreaking

 

[noz]

Originally posted by MrPikolo
A manual won't always be faster(I am assuming you are saying both cars have the same modifcations) than except for some old muscle cars.

- An auto will mosltly outshift a manual.
- The automatic in the DSMs is a 4-speed. Less and quicker shifting.
- The turbocharger does matter quite a bit for the automatic transmssion. You are able to build boost off of the line by powerbreaking

a manual will always be faster with same mods..........unless theres mods done on the auto tranny.

 

[clownface]

i dunno about a auto always outstifting a manual..that really depends on the driver i would think

And i guess that since a 4speed is the best that all those cool 6speeds arnt that cool after all. ill just go get me a manaul 4 speed old CRX and ill kick ass.

 

[Red97Eclipseboy]

Originally posted by audiousECLIPSE
Why is an Automatic really so bad?

They're faster in the 1/4 mile than a manual and easier to use.

So what is the big deal?

Riiight... :thumbdown

 

[CowPimp]

Unless you plan on making quite a lot of power, a manual transmission will be better. You can shift faster, choose the point on the powerband at which to shift, launch at higher RPMs, don't lose as much power through the drivetrain, and manny cars weigh a little less. Not to mention the feeling you get when you launch and hit those shifts nearly perfect or the obvious advantage you have when it comes to taking quick turns.

The automatic starts to make a difference at super high horsepower numbers because you don't lose boost between shifts, and bigger turbos take longer to spool up. I've heard people say anywhere from 400-500whp is the point at which an automatic becomes beneficial on a turbo car. Of course, for all of this to be the case, you need to put a lot of money into the tranny. You are going to need a shift kit to fully prevent boost loss and a stutterbox for proper launching.

 

[xBOOSTx]

Originally posted by ypnas777
With a nice shift kit and a torque converter as long with some suspension mods and sticky tires an auto could def keep up with a manual. Also, with an auto u can build boost off the line and u dont lose boost in between shifts and an auto transmission with a shift kit will shift waaaaay faster than a human with a stick. Yes, it is more expensive to make an auto fast but its worth it in the end. I have an auto and i dont regret it.

Agreed

We Don't Lift To Shift

 

[xBOOSTx]

Originally posted by MrPikolo
A manual won't always be faster(I am assuming you are saying both cars have the same modifcations) than except for some old muscle cars.

- An auto will mosltly outshift a manual.
- The automatic in the DSMs is a 4-speed. Less and quicker shifting.
- The turbocharger does matter quite a bit for the automatic transmssion. You are able to build boost off of the line by powerbreaking

Once again I agree...

We Don't Lift To Shift...

 

[CowPimp]

Oh yeah. One more important DSM-specific thing about the auto vs. manual debate is that the stock manual tranny can hold a lot more power than the stock auto tranny.

 

[doug]

Says who?

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

ok get the shift kit and torque converter and all that and youll keep up with me...but Ill be stock. Im not down talking autos but manual will always perform better , not only have better gear reductions and gearing(5 gears are always better than 4).
Andrew

 

[dave99gst]

LOTS of peopel would rather drag an a/t.
personal pref is what is most importaint.

 

[DSMNightmare]

I have both..... The automatic itself is not slower. On a 2G they have the EXACT same crank hp and the A/T has slightyly more torque.

1. The auto is going to be slower mod for mod because of driveline loss. Although from experience I was beating 5 speed guys in my A/T FWD that had the same mods as me because I was pulling better 60fts than they were. Just because a person has the advantage of a 5 speed they still have to be able to control it. The A/T kinda takes the margin for error and reduces it. This is especially visible when shifting to second.

A/T FWD = 22% driveline loss vs FWD 5 speed = 17%
A/T AWD = 25% driveline loss vs AWD 5 speed = 22%


2. Automatics will outshit a stick almost every time especially with a shift kit.

3. The auto trannys biggest pitfall is it's inability to hold up to high hp applications without some sort of build up. The good thing is all you need is a shift kit, end clutches, and a torque converter to be able to handle around 400hp. Level10 makes a tranny kit that will hold over 600hp. All for about the same price you'll spend on a TRE rebuild, 4spider, clutch kit, and flywheel.

4. There are a few A/Ts that have ran 10s both AWD and FWD. Warren Daniel has prolly the fastest FWD A/T 2G I have seen running 12.7 and he had minimal mods.

5. It is theorized that A/T 2Gs are less prone to crankwalk because they do not put the load on the crank like the 5 speeds do. In fact if you look at the statistics it is not very common for a A/T to walk.

6. There is a nice thing about having the A/T vs the 5 speed but it is a matter of opinion. A/Ts to me seem much nicer in rush hour traffic. Try spending an hour in rush hour with your 2600 vs A/T and see how much fun it is.

All that being said I do like my AWD stick better than my FWD A/T. I had my A/T FWD down to 13.8@15psi before I bought my AWD and put my focus on that. At that point the only thing holding the car back was the FWD and not the A/T. I had 2.0 60fts and 101.5mph traps at 15psi. I have another buddy who was running an AWD A/T with the same mods as me and he was running low 13s high 12s. The way I put it... The 5 speed is more fun to drive but the A/T is more of a pleasure to drive. Fact is that in the DSM world the 5 speed is the better choice if you plan to run 11s or better. I think Kigglys tranny was not holding up too well when he started getting into the 10s with his 1G. BUT just because you run a 5 speed does not make you better. When I drove my A/T I handed plenty of AWDs and FWD 5 speeds thier asses. Just be prepared, because your going to spend a good chunk of your money on building up the tranny if you plan to break 11s with an A/T.

 

[DSMNightmare]

Originally posted by DSMeclipse4G63
ok get the shift kit and torque converter and all that and youll keep up with me...but Ill be stock. Im not down talking autos but manual will always perform better , not only have better gear reductions and gearing(5 gears are always better than 4).
Andrew

Not true at all. With the right modifications to the A/T you can put a "one off" controller on the TCU and this will allow you to manually shift the A/T(had one with my A/T). Why is 5 gears better? My A/T only had to shift twice at the track while I had to shift three times with my M/T? With the right shift kit the A/T will shift faster than the M/T with almost 0 margin of error.

Right now if you want to talk about the big dogs like Buschur and Rau they are both running 2 or 3 speed A/Ts in both of thier cars. I think Rau has a Clutchless manual but I could be wrong. Either way they are more like a combination of both MT and AT because there is no clutch involved. Try missing a gear at 9500rpm and tell me the clutch pedal is better. Magnus has the Dogbox which is a very nice option for the M/T.

 

[Defiant]

Originally posted by audiousECLIPSE
Why is an Automatic really so bad?

Uh... they aren't. They just aren't manuals. There's a torque convertor where a manual has a (mostly) solid clutch, and it takes some power to drive its fluid.

They're faster in the 1/4 mile than a manual and easier to use.

Pehaps. They can be more difficult to use correctly.

So what is the big deal?

There isn't one, but some people -no names- insist on starting disruptive threads, similar to those asking which generation is better, or which name sticker is better.

All of which gives Mods something to Mod.

As I now shall.

Those desiring to continue may do so in one of the dozens of other threads on this same, endless, indeterminable topic.