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Another Wont start Thread...help me...

Posted by 13secGST, Apr 16, 2004

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  1. 13secGST

    13secGST Proven Member

    1,008
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    Joined Dec 1, 2002
    San Luis Obispo, California
    Ok...so I put my car back to stock...here is everything I took off (engine wise)

    Whole FMIC kit
    16g
    Injectors
    Alternator
    Full Exhaust
    Intake
    Fuel Pump
    BOV

    I think that is everything I touched, and now my car has a hard time starting...I have actually got it to start...but it has a hard time...and a hard time idling.

    To start it, I turn the key and crank it and I flutter the gas and I have to do this for a good 20 seconds when the engine is cold to get it to start....then when it finally does the revs will jump up to 2000-3000 for a sec and come back down and try to die but I continue fluttering the gas to keep it alive. Once it warms up, it will idle on its own and seems to run decent. but if I open the throtle, it will only rev up slightly then try to fall back down and die, but it catches itself (depend on how open the throtle is)


    I have checked for vaccum leaks, and I just can't seem to find one...I would tell a person asking this question that they have a vaccum leak...but I have checked EVERYTHING...everything is on...I just can't find one

    I'm not saying it can't be a vaccum leak but I'm saying that all my intercooler hoses are on, the intercooler itself is in great condition and isn't leaking, all hoses to the intake are on, the stock BOV is recirculated, all visable hoses on the intake mani and TB are connected at both ends and aren't torn...I also replaced the TB Gaskets....because orginally the back gasket (by TB and intake mani) was a leak...its not any more...I've tried spraying carb cleaner by it and it does nothing...so its obviously not a leak anymore.

    also, my cam angle sensor is working properly, MAS is hooked up and working properly, all cylinders are firing and getting fuel, compression in order is 145,155,155,160...Battery grounds are good, I can't seem to find a blown fuse...


    Anyway...I know that is a lot of info...but I felt it is best to give everything I know so you guys don't tell me to do things I've done 3 times already...

    If you have any ideas please tell me...I've tried basically everything and nothing seems to work. Also, because I still believe it can be a vaccum leak, do you know any wierd places I may have a vaccum leak that I may not have checked...and I also replaced my injector O-rings and sprayed Carb cleaner along where the intake mani bolts to the head with no luck...


    However with all this, there is one peculiar thing, next to the Cam angle senor, there is a random harness, the cam angle senor harness is black...directly to the right of it is a little grey harness...I had the car warmed up running, and pulled this harness out and nothing happened...I don't know what in controlls though and looked in the Chiltons but since I don't know what its called it could take me forever to find it in there...

    Anyway, thanx for any help...I really want to get this car running again...
     
  2. 13secGST

    13secGST Proven Member

    1,008
    2
    Joined Dec 1, 2002
    San Luis Obispo, California
    nobody has ideas?
     
  3. crankbender

    crankbender Proven Member

    1,167
    8
    Joined Apr 15, 2002
    houston, Texas
    how did the cat look that you put on the car. It is possible that you have a clogged cat....

    Have you checked your spark timing? How long was the car down for the work (fuel can go bad in as little as a month).
     
  4. 13secGST

    13secGST Proven Member

    1,008
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    Joined Dec 1, 2002
    San Luis Obispo, California
    well, I'll check to see if its the cat...I don't think it is but I can check that pretty quick by just un bolting it...

    it has been down for about 2 months...but I think the fuel is ok...and lastly...how would I check spark timing on my car? Because it does seem like that could be the problem...I just don't know how to check it.
     
  5. crankbender

    crankbender Proven Member

    1,167
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    Joined Apr 15, 2002
    houston, Texas
    got a manual? if not it is on vfaq or like 50 other places. To get an idea just start the car with a timing light in the #1 cylinder plug wire. Light up the crank with the light and the pulse should make it so you see what the timing is.

    There is a plug to short out or else you will have the computer messing with you....its ok though it will give you an idea.
     
  6. 13secGST

    13secGST Proven Member

    1,008
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    Joined Dec 1, 2002
    San Luis Obispo, California
    ohh...alright...I know how to do that...but damn...I need to find someone with a timing light...
     
  7. 92awddsm

    92awddsm DSM Wiseman

    3,934
    79
    Joined Jan 17, 2004
    Chesterfield, Virginia
    Check the o-ring on the fuel pump. Sounds like it is lean and if you replaced the pump, you could have torn the o-ring and now not getting full fuel pressure at the injectors.
     

    737  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.320 @ 115.440 · 1G DSM
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  8. 13secGST

    13secGST Proven Member

    1,008
    2
    Joined Dec 1, 2002
    San Luis Obispo, California
    O-Ring on the pump? hmm...I could check that...

    I just check the cat...thats not it...its also not the front O2,

    I know that I am getting fuel at the injectors that is for sure...and I know that the injectors are pulsing...I could actually hear them...but you are saying that if there is a torn ring I may not be getting enough pressure causing this...ok...I'll check that..


    I want to say thank you also for the trouble shooting help....
     
  9. J92EGSX

    J92EGSX Proven Member

    32
    0
    Joined Dec 26, 2003
    Cross Plains, Wisconsin
    Try to swap your maf out with a knowen good one. the mafs on the dsm's can cause some pretty wierd problems. Alot of them go bad after a while and if you "bump" them when doing a turbo swap etc. it may ruin it or change the resistance enough where it might not run right or at all. give it a try. and yes check your fuel pressure and base timing too.
     
  10. ltvarney

    ltvarney Proven Member

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    Joined Jan 7, 2003
    Lansing, Michigan
    Sounded to me like a MAS problem too. Once, my MAS connector came undone and I had to start my car the same way as described until we figured it out.
     

    320  0

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    automatic · 1G DSM
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  11. 13secGST

    13secGST Proven Member

    1,008
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    Joined Dec 1, 2002
    San Luis Obispo, California
    ok...well...I do know some people that have ones that are functioning currently (known good) I'll swap them just to check...but what I did in order to check the MAS was got the car running and warm so it would idle on its own...then I unpluged the MAS and the car died...so I figured it was functioning properly..but I'll try it anyway...

    Its actually what a lot of people have told me and what I first suspected...but I thought I ruled it out..
     
  12. 13secGST

    13secGST Proven Member

    1,008
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    Joined Dec 1, 2002
    San Luis Obispo, California
    ok...checked with a known good MAS and still have the same problem...I still need to check the pump o-ring (even though I believe it to be fine)...and the base timing...which I may suspect...but the cause of the timing is what is the problem...what would cause the timing to be bad.

    I have another idea...I think that the ECU may not be grounded properly...One of the black and sliver(or white) wires was cut when I had DSMLink...now it didn't really go back together right and I just used elec tape with it...I'm going to get actual connectors tomorrow and try that...

    but if you guys still have more ideas...I'd love to hear them...I'm just getting burnt out on this thing...and running out of brain power...but hey..you guys are cool:thumb:
     
  13. J92EGSX

    J92EGSX Proven Member

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    Joined Dec 26, 2003
    Cross Plains, Wisconsin
    just take care of all the little problems first, soilder all of the wires! don't connect them with butt conectors! not a good soild connection. Check your fuel pressure. Your base timing should not affeted unless your crank angle/tdc sensor was rotated. If it was rotated you will want to set your base timing.
     
  14. 13secGST

    13secGST Proven Member

    1,008
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    Joined Dec 1, 2002
    San Luis Obispo, California
    base timing is not adjustable on 2gs...you can't do it by rotating the CAS like you can on 1gs...the only way my base timing can be affected is if the ECU is fvcked...and I'm actually gonna try swaping in a working ECU to make sure that isn't the problem...it'll actually be a 95 Eprom ECU with DSMLink V2 (which I used to have)...so while its in I'm going to log things...like TPS, Coolant temp, Air Flow...etc...TIMING....

    I still have yet to check the fuel pressure...which I am actually wondering about...I did change the fuel pump and wasn't sure about the order of the O-rings...so I just put them in the way that looked best...I'll have to check that...because I did try taking off the vacuum line to the Fuel Pressure Solinoid and it actually seemed to rev A LITTLE easier..not much but there did seem to be some difference..

    So ya...I still have to check that, I can do it thurs...work and school all day tuesday and Wed...then hopefully I can also do the ECU thing on Thursday.

    Also there was really only that one wire that needed to be connected...and while the car seems to idle better now, and rev easier...it still isn't right...I did use butt connectors a male and female one...they are in there tight...soldering really won't make the connection any better.

    anyway...It seems to be getting narrowed down...but at the same time it seems there are more and more things I'm needing to check.

    Another thing I checked today was the TPS...ya TPS, the one in the front of the throtle body...I'm not sure which is TPS and which is ISC, I know there is one thing on the bottom and one in the front...I checked the one in the front by unpluging it, and it did make a difference..for the worse...the car really didn't want to run then...so it is safe to assume that that piece is also functioning correctly

    Ok...So I will check that stuff thursday...any more ideas you guys think of between now and then would be cool...cause then I could check them all that day...:dsm: :thumbdown LOL
     
  15. 13secGST

    13secGST Proven Member

    1,008
    2
    Joined Dec 1, 2002
    San Luis Obispo, California
    Ok...here is my new theory...and hopefully very liable...yet stupid on my part.

    When I put my stock fuel pump in...I used the O-rings from the 255...well I didn't know they were different and stuff...then I figured I'd just buy new o-rings for my stock pump...but they don't sell them like that...at least not at mitsu...you have to buy the whole assembly...$375

    I called up msrecycling and got a full asembly for $75...I prefered doing it that way, cause I can't get stock o-rings...but can get walbro o-rings but I don't want the car to have a walbro whine or for it to be too rich from the much greater flow of the fuel pump...I should get it this week, then I'll swap it in real quick...and pray to god the car works...if it doesn't, I am again suspecting the ECU...but I pray that this fixes it...

    your guys thoughts on this?
     
  16. 92awddsm

    92awddsm DSM Wiseman

    3,934
    79
    Joined Jan 17, 2004
    Chesterfield, Virginia
    The fuel pump o-ring is what I thought originally but I didnt relize there was a diferance between the two. If I had my old one, Id give it to you. Have you already purchased the assembly yet? Im sure someone here would be able to did up the stock o-ring to help you out. Did you go to the auto parts store and sorted through fuel-safe o-rings to see if they had one that would work? I know NAPA keeps them in stock in assorted sizes and thickness.
     

    737  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.320 @ 115.440 · 1G DSM
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  17. 13secGST

    13secGST Proven Member

    1,008
    2
    Joined Dec 1, 2002
    San Luis Obispo, California
    no...I really didn't bother looking for O-rings other then going to Mitsu and calling up Mike at DSS (he's local for me) neither had or could get them...and a new asembly from Mitsu cost 390 list talked down to maybe 360 or 350...so I called up MS recycling and got one from them for 75...it should be here tomorrow as I ordered it yesterday and it is in-state shipping...really shouldn't take more than a day...

    I'm really excited cause something similar fixed this guys similar problem
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=964917#post964917

    anyway...I'll let you guys know what happens when I put the new piece in....
     
  18. 92awddsm

    92awddsm DSM Wiseman

    3,934
    79
    Joined Jan 17, 2004
    Chesterfield, Virginia
    Well, Is it fixed yet?
     

    737  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.320 @ 115.440 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  19. 13secGST

    13secGST Proven Member

    1,008
    2
    Joined Dec 1, 2002
    San Luis Obispo, California
    ya...actually I fixed it today :D :D :D

    I ordered that new asembly...but they sent me one for an AWD model...then they said they were sending me a new one on Thursday...now I called them today...and they are sending me one tomorrow...so I said ok...well for the time being (and since I had just taken the pump out expecting my other one to be here today) I put the 255 back in and made sure the O-ring and everything was in right...

    now it works...the problem was, I didn't have the bottom rubber piece for the stock pump on it...I just don't have one and the one from the 255 doesn't fit it...but ya...thats what it was, since I didn't have that bottom piece, the O-ring wasn't sealing properly...and it works now.

    Thanx for all your help, Everybody...I honestly appriciate it VERY much and am very happy the car is running again... :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

    now I need to figure out why the stereo isn't turning on...new thread about to be started... :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
     

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