Want 300whp but not by boosting the 14b to hell

[dsmsucks]

Hey guys I have the following mods
ported 14b
fmic
2 1/2 turboback
2g ported o2 housing and manifold
190 lph
kn filter
2100lb clutch
Now over the winter Im getting the following
gm maft set up
550cc injectors
logger
I know 300whp can be done with the 14b, but its done on race gas and boost over 21psi. I want to have this hp at lower boost like 16-18psi. Any Ideas, not to many more bolt ons I can get. Or Im just kidding myself?
thanks

 

[92dsmtalon]

Could always build the shit outta the bottom end, go with a stroker. Not sure of the budget ## working with.

 

[dsmsucks]

Naw I dont think so the block is staying stock Dont have that kind of money now!

 

[b00st_catalyst]

EvoIII 16g.....its a bolt on.

 

[dsmsucks]

yeah but will it be enough to support 300whp at boost ranges 16-18psi?

 

[oldman420]

Water/Meth injection would be a cheap way of not boosting your turbo to hell maybe even a tdo5h exhaust manifold, but yah just buy a 650$ true evo3 and play with that. It will also help fill that fmic with meth injection your laughing.

 

[99gst_racer]

yeah but will it be enough to support 300whp at boost ranges 16-18psi?

Why do you want to run such low boost?

 

[dsmsucks]

Why do you want to run such low boost?

I guess to keep the car more reliable!! Also Im only getting 550cc so thats why!

 

[KPEclipse]

Quite an interesting thread because I'm looking for pretty much the same thing from the same mods. The difference that I have in my setup is I went with keydiver...to meet the hp goals that I want I think I'm going to have to go to a 16g...there's a b16g in a box at my house that I havent had the chance of bolting on just yet...

 

[oldman420]

get dsmlink, don't get me wrong a logger will do you good, but if i had decide between 300$ for a logger and 600$ for a dsmlink. I'de get the dsmlink. At least look at a safc just so you can tune. Anybody who is into cars like ours knows that you can throw parts at a car all day long but it's how you tune them and make them run together is how you are going to make your power.

 

[CanadianTSi]

The only way to make that much power at low boost is with a bigger turbo.

Although a Big turbo at lower boost or a smaller turbo at higher boost, if both are making 300hp then there both moving the same amount of air therefore you have the same amount of "stress" on the system...

 

[JayRolla]

When my brother was running pump he had a 16g and was making 300whp/300lb at only 17psi. His car was tuned by a local shop and they tuned the motor extremely rich, enough to cause knock.

Retuned to a low 11:1 afr it felt much better but no dyno to prove results but we knew he was making more power. Now that he is on e85 there is no problem with running lots of timing and lots of boost.

Anyways you can make 300whp at low boost levels with a 16g. 17-20psi is the most you can get out of a 16g on pump unless you pull lots of timing with an EMS or something.

 

[Bmxr152]

ive heard of people run 22psi on stock 450cc, of course with a 190 or 255 fuel pump though on the 14b with around 276awhp.

 

[98mitsuGSX-SD]

Personally I think your kidding yourself.

With your current upgraded mods; your HP goal might be achieveable but you would be pushing the limits of your set up. I'd suggest getting bigger injectors (650) along with a true tuning device(DSMLINK, S-AFC, W/ a wideband o2 sensor).

A logger will help you see what needs to be changed but without a tuning device how will you make the needed changes to correct them? (get a buddy with a logger and borrow it)

I don't see why your switching over to a MAF-T set up when your HP goal is still obtainable through using your stock MAF. I'd suggest putting the money you would put towards the MAF-T into a tuning device.

If reliablity is what's holding you back, My car is a DD with more modifications.

If anyone thinks my infomation is incorrect or misleading please do correct me. I've been a member for some time but hardly post. I do have to say search has always lead me to most of my answers.

 

[ilikespeeding]

I'm running 27 psi on a 14b. I also have forged internals, 255 lph, and 550s. I need to get bigger injectors, fmic, and a better turbo.

 

[JWoodley]

Ive seen 28psi on a 14b put down 285whp on a gst. Fuel mods were a 255HP, aeromotive, SAFC, and EVO 560s.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

You are getting more then you need. 300 whp has been achieved with what you already have. One of my first guides to upgrade was the below sequence quoted from Buschur Racing.

Upgrade Sequencing — Stage 1
Take your car to as much as 300hp - and click off low 13's to high 12's in the 1/4 mile!

1) Air Filter Assembly
1G - K&N Air Filter
2G - K&N Filtercharger Kit

1G Tip! – Cut the top of the factory airbox off leaving the front and rear mounting holes intact

1G Tip! – Remove the air silencer (the paper filter located behind the MAS)

1G Tip! – Remove the smaller of the two honeycombs in the MAS - Do NOT remove the larger one. This modification will allow 2-3 psi more boost before hitting fuel cut

2G Tip! – Do NOT remove ANY of the honeycombs - the car will not run smoothly without them



2) Cat-back Exhaust System
AWD with 12 or 13 sec goal:

Buschur Racing 2.5" Pressbent Aluminized piping with Stainless Muffler and 4" Polished Tip - 1G or 2G (AWD Only)

All Turbo FWD or AWD with sub-12 sec goal:

Buschur Racing 3" Mandrel Bent Stainless piping and Muffler with 4" Polished Tip - All Turbo FWD and AWD Models


3) Boost or Boost/Vacuum Gauge
The factory Boost Gauge does not actually measure Boost - it merely estimates the what it "thinks" the current boost is based upon calculations involving air temperature and MAS data. Installing a "real" boost gauge is especially important once boost pressures exceed the values the stock gauge records.

We carry SPI, Autometer, and VDO Boost and Boost/Vacuum gauges, as well as 1G, 2G, and 3000GT Gauge Pods to house them.


4) Compressor Bypass Valve (Blow Off Valve) for 95+ Models
The 2G stock BOV is made of plastic and will not hold even moderate boost levels without leaking. We recommend replacing the stock 2G valve with a stock 1G BOV


5) Boost Control
We recommend the use of a Manual Boost Controller like the one that was designed by a well-respected long-time Buschur Racing customer Marc Hallman. It is reasonably priced, works great, and spools up as fast as the best electronic controllers. If you want to run an electronic Boost Controller, we sell the HKS, Apex'i and Greddy units.


6) Fuel Pump
Once you have performed modifications 1-5 above, you'll be able to increase the boost to >16psi if you upgrade the factory fuel pump to one with higher flow. We sell 2 diffent in-tank fuel pumps - one for stock turbo and 16g cars, another for 20g+ cars. Both fuel pumps are better than the in-line HKS fuel pumps because they are easier to install, flow more, and are quieter than an external pump.


7) Test Pipe
This modification eliminates your catalytic converter and is designed for offroad use ONLY. Expect the exhaust tone to increase slightly, and for the power to come on more strongly when the turbo spools up. We also sell high flow catalytic converters for street use.


8) Downpipe
Replacing the stock downpipe will greatly improve the performance of your car at high RPMs. Some of our customer cars have ran as fast as mid-11's on our least expensive 2.5" aluminized, pressbent downpipes. We also build and sell 2.5" and 3" stainless, mandrel-bent downpipes. A 3" downpipe without sufficient port work (see below), and external wastegate can cause boost creep.


9) Port Work
Using a die grinder and carbide bit, port your O2 housing, exhaust manifold housing, and turbine housing. This will make your turbo spool up faster, relieve unwanted backpressure, and increase your top-end power.

Port work has the added benefit of improving engine reliablity since less backpressure causes less strain on your engine, resulting in longer engine life.

You can send your parts to us for porting if you don't have access to the equipment to port your exhaust parts.


10) Ported 2G Exhaust Manifold
If you have a 1G, you may want to replace the 1G exhaust manifold with a higher-flowing, ported 2G manifold. We sell the 95+ exhaust manifolds in ported or unported styles at competitive prices!


11) High-Performance Clutch
The stock clutch will allow much of the new power at the crank to slip past the flywheel and your car won't "feel" as fast as it really is. A new clutch will also improve your 60' times at the track since it transfers more power to the ground.

We prefer the ACT 2100 or 2600 lb clutches. An added benefit it that the clutch discs are replaceable without replacing the pressure plate.

The ACT 2100 will hold enough power to propel you car into the high 11's.

The ACT 2600 will hold as much power as a DSM can produce! There is a significant increase in pedal pressure over stock with this clutch.


12 )16G upgrade for 1G Automatics and 2Gs
The 16g upgrade (described in Stage 2), is required for 1G Autos or 2Gs to reach the peak Stage 1 performance level.


At this point in the buildup, you should have spent no more than $1200, if you performed the labor yourself. Your car will now be nearing the 300hp mark. A really well-tuned Stage 1 AWD car can achieve ET's as quick as 12.40's at a trap speed of 109mph with these simple modifications.

As you see; no injectors, no SAFC, no logger (though I would get one anyway for monitoring purposes). At this point all you need is a Boost gauge and
MBC. And boost it to 18 psi.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

<table border="1" width="608" bgcolor="#CCCCCC">
<tr>
<td align="center" colspan="7" width="598">
<h3><font color="#000000">RRE's Injector Chooser Assistant</font></h3>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center" width="96">&nbsp;</td>
<td align="center" width="64"><font color="#000000">T-25<br>
~16 psi</font></td>
<td align="center" width="64"><font color="#000000">14B<br>
~16 psi</font></td>
<td align="center" width="130"><font color="#000000">14B@18 psi,<br>
Upgrade Turbo 17-18 psi</font></td>
<td align="center" width="65"><font color="#000000">Upgrade Turbo
20-21 psi</font></td>
<td align="center" width="65"><font color="#000000">Upgrade Turbo
24-26 psi</font></td>
<td align="center" width="72"><font color="#000000">Breaking the Sound
Barrier</font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="96"><font color="#000000"><b>91 Octane</b></font></td>
<td align="center" width="64" rowspan="3">&nbsp;
<p><font color="#000000">Stock</font></p>
&nbsp;</td>
<td align="center" width="64" rowspan="3"><font color="#000000">Fuel
Pump Upgrade Only</font></td>
<td align="center" width="130"><font color="#000000">550cc</font></td>
<td align="center" width="65"><font color="#000000">660cc</font></td>
<td align="center" width="137" colspan="2"><font color="#000000">Nope</font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="96"><font color="#000000"><b>93-94 Octane</b></font></td>
<td align="center" width="130" rowspan="2"><font color="#000000">Fuel
Pump Upgrade Only</font></td>
<td align="center" width="65"><font color="#000000">550cc</font></td>
<td align="center" width="65" rowspan="2"><font color="#000000">660s
or 550cc w/addl. pressure</font></td>
<td align="center" width="72"><font color="#000000">Nope</font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="96"><font color="#000000"><b>Race Gas</b></font></td>
<td align="center" width="65"><font color="#000000">Fuel Pump</font></td>
<td align="center" width="72"><font color="#000000">660-720+cc, Addl.
Fuel Pressure</font></td>
</tr>
</table>
If anyone can figure out why there is a gap on top of the table please let me know so I can fix it.

**edit** Moved table here.

 

[awdmonster1904]

Ive seen 28psi on a 14b put down 285whp on a gst. Fuel mods were a 255HP, aeromotive, SAFC, and EVO 560s.

doesent the 14b die put??? @28 psi

 

[Slo TSI]

You are getting more then you need. 300 whp has been achieved with what you already have. One of my first guides to upgrade was the below sequence quoted from Buschur Racing.



As you see; no injectors, no SAFC, no logger (though I would get one anyway for monitoring purposes). At this point all you need is a Boost gauge and
MBC. And boost it to 18 psi.

Nice find I was looking for this for a friend that had asked me for it.

 

[timot]

I went with keydiver...

+1 for the chip

 

[dsmsucks]

<table border="1" width="608" bgcolor="#CCCCCC">
<tr>
<td align="center" colspan="7" width="598">
<h3><font color="#000000">RRE's Injector Chooser Assistant</font></h3>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="center" width="96">&nbsp;</td>
<td align="center" width="64"><font color="#000000">T-25<br>
~16 psi</font></td>
<td align="center" width="64"><font color="#000000">14B<br>
~16 psi</font></td>
<td align="center" width="130"><font color="#000000">14B@18 psi,<br>
Upgrade Turbo 17-18 psi</font></td>
<td align="center" width="65"><font color="#000000">Upgrade Turbo
20-21 psi</font></td>
<td align="center" width="65"><font color="#000000">Upgrade Turbo
24-26 psi</font></td>
<td align="center" width="72"><font color="#000000">Breaking the Sound
Barrier</font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="96"><font color="#000000"><b>91 Octane</b></font></td>
<td align="center" width="64" rowspan="3">&nbsp;
<p><font color="#000000">Stock</font></p>
&nbsp;</td>
<td align="center" width="64" rowspan="3"><font color="#000000">Fuel
Pump Upgrade Only</font></td>
<td align="center" width="130"><font color="#000000">550cc</font></td>
<td align="center" width="65"><font color="#000000">660cc</font></td>
<td align="center" width="137" colspan="2"><font color="#000000">Nope</font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="96"><font color="#000000"><b>93-94 Octane</b></font></td>
<td align="center" width="130" rowspan="2"><font color="#000000">Fuel
Pump Upgrade Only</font></td>
<td align="center" width="65"><font color="#000000">550cc</font></td>
<td align="center" width="65" rowspan="2"><font color="#000000">660s
or 550cc w/addl. pressure</font></td>
<td align="center" width="72"><font color="#000000">Nope</font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="96"><font color="#000000"><b>Race Gas</b></font></td>
<td align="center" width="65"><font color="#000000">Fuel Pump</font></td>
<td align="center" width="72"><font color="#000000">660-720+cc, Addl.
Fuel Pressure</font></td>
</tr>
</table>
If anyone can figure out why there is a gap on top of the table please let me know so I can fix it.

**edit** Moved table here.

Wow I didnt know I could run 18psi on the 14b without injectors Well I guess I have almost 300whp now with the things I have I just need more boost right!

 

[Mikael SS]

Could always build the shit outta the bottom end, go with a stroker. Not sure of the budget ## working with.

why the hell would he do that? why spend thousands on a new motor when he could spend a few hundred on a new turbo?

 

[Mikael SS]

I guess to keep the car more reliable!! Also Im only getting 550cc so thats why!

injectors are rated by how much power then can support, not boost.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Nice find I was looking for this for a friend that had asked me for it.

Alot of my friends refer to me as a book of knowledge. I'm not a book, I'm a table of contents. I pride myself on being able to rapidly resource. I can find almost anything I want through the internet and books.

Wow I didnt know I could run 18psi on the 14b without injectors Well I guess I have almost 300whp now with the things I have I just need more boost right!

Not quite, you're decision to go with a 2.5" exhaust may have hindered your quest for 300 AWHP, but you won't fall short and it is entirely possible even with 2.5", it's just more likely with a 3".

So with that said and provided the car is in premium condition, turning up the boost will net you some numbers close to, if not exceeding, 300 AWHP.