[RESOLVED] need good dsm tech. phoenix AZ 91 talon tsi

[larrys91talon]

own a 91 talon tsi that boosts well but isnt accelerating well even under 20psi. have 550cc,afc,fpr,no cat, k&n,stock 14b. logger will be here tues. feels like i maybe pulling timing do to knock but dont no. if anyone can help will pay thanks, let me no and i'll email u my number.

 

[FullRace2G]

If you are running 20 psi on our shit Phoenix pump gas with a stock turbo and intercooler, then I gurantee it's detonating. I was running 20 psi on a big turbo, big intercooler and pump gas, and was picking up about 12 counts of knock. Switch to race gas on the dyno, knock went away and picked up 24 hp without changing a thing. Small turbos have a tendany to produce more knock at higher boost levels because you're forcing that turbo to compress and flow more air than it's designed to. The problem is compressed air is hot thats why we run big intercoolers to cool that air charge down. Larger turbos flow a greater amount of air at the same boost level, which means there is more volume of air per psi keeping the heat down. Try turning the boost down little by little till it feels like it's not falling on it's face anymore. If you can get it to stop detonating, it will probably feel faster and make a little more power. Hope I helped.

Aaron

 

[larrys91talon]

thanks man but tryed it got the fuel trims set at -14 across the high and low throttle wich should make my 550ccs like my 450ccs then i turned the boost down to 12 psi wich the 450s can hold in this heat and on pump and still got no power. i cant figure it out, its also hard to start at first in the morning like its flooded. at them throttle points and 12psi my narrowband reading in open loop is .94 even when i had it at 20psi it would hit .94(rich)even if i set it to -20 it would hit .91

i was reading how much throttle i could push with the neo without it stumbling hard and anything past 60% it fall on its face.your names aaron and work at a mitsu shop? i think i bot them rochester 680s from you.

 

[larrys91talon]

need help guys, i no somone is from here that can help me and i can drive it anywere so let me no, lets get a 1g with the pop up light at some of these in and out meets.i no the problem is probubly just a few boost leaks,someone that nows his stuff could fix it pretty easy or at least tell me what i need to do.

 

[FullRace2G]

Check for boost leaks, check your timing, check your throttle position sensor, check your plugs, make sure your running NGK's I would go with the BPR6ES or BPR7ES for your setup. Sometimes non NGK plugs have a problem with boost even low boost.

Aaron

 

[FullRace2G]

Try to zero out the afc for high throttle if your going to run 20 psi. you might even have to go positive with your high throttle settings. the reason your o2 reads rich even though it's missing is because your o2 sensor is picking up the un-burnt fuel from the misfire. it's called a rich miss or spark blow out. you cant run 20 psi on pump gas with your 550's setup like 450's.

Aaron

 

[larrys91talon]

well i got my logger hooked up today and im hitting 43 counts at wot under any boost and retarding my timing over 20 degrees, if i shift slow and keep it in vac or 0 boost i get 0 counts.

my knock sensor is kinda gummy were it touches the block so its probubly bad.i unpluged the knock sensor(i no its bad)to only get the -9 degree timing and now if i push the throttle past even a 1/4(if that even)it just sputters and doesnt let me accelerate at all(if any its like a geo metro) and backfires sometimes when shifting gears.

the tps is good,with the car off and gas pedal pushed to wot the tps on the logger reads 98.8%

i dont no its weard my o2s on the afc(blue wire mod from vfaqs)and the knock sensor unplugged its reading .1x at wot but the loggers reading .8x at wot,this only happened after the knock sensor was unplugged.

i've tryed all boost levels from stock 9psi to 15psi and even up to 20psi and it does the same thing(geo metro accel.) under any amount. my base timing is at +5 degrees the plugs are new ngk 6's and the wires are new oem ones.havent checked the coil pack or boost leak test yet cause i need a compressor the bike pumps and cheap walmart 12v air compressors didnt show any boost but felt air going threw the tubes.i'll probubly just go threw the tubing one by one(boost tester on one end and 2 in. cap clamped on other)and try that cheap compressor like that.

 

[FullRace2G]

I would replace that knock sensor if you think it's bad and then clear your computer by disconnecting the battery. This will reset your learned octane value, then I would turn the boost down all the way to stock boost, like 12psi. I would zero out the high throttle on the afc and start tunning all over again with a clear computer. you wan't your wot o2 voltage around .85- .89 on a 1G. once you get that dialed in and as long as it's not picking up knock, start turning up the boost and compensating with fuel untill it's starts to knock a little bit, then dial the boost back like 1 psi or till it's stops knocking then your at a safe boost level and tune for our pump gas.....make sure you do this with the car completely warmed up sence your on a stock intercooler. you want that thing as hot as possible when you start to tune that way it's tuned for it's hottest condition and you will always be safe, then it will run even better in cooler temps. you may only be able to run like 15-18 psi max on your current setup with no knock. as long as your not getting any knock you will probably make more power on lower boost. Good Luck!

Aaron

 

[larrys91talon]

thanks man, will do and i'll keep you posted.also i think i have an auto. 1g waistgate on there cause the stock boost is only 8 to 9psi.

 

[larrys91talon]

boost leak test was done today and im having major leaks all aroung the tbody and biss,i mean so bad the system is only holding 12psi and runs out in like 5 sec. so tomarrow i'll fix the leaks then see how it runs and then i'll keep you guys posted.thanks for the help

 

[larrys91talon]

well still runs like crap, if you no any good dsm techs here let me no anyone thanks.

 

[FullRace2G]

You were only getting 8-9 psi due to the boost leaks. After you did the boost leak test did you fix the leaks? Did you start to tune over again? Also Ive been working for Mitsubishi as a tech for the last 6 years so this is as close as your going to get to a "dsm tech". It's very very hard to diagnose driveability problems over the net....I'm doing the best I can to help you.

Aaron

 

[larrys91talon]

did fix the leaks,the 9 psi was with the bc all the way open(the minimal boost),redid timing the right way,(grounded out that connector before starting the car)timing was floating between +7 and +10 now got it down to around +3 to +5.

just got back from a run car ran like crap still, wasnt knocking under wot but was showing 20ish to 30ish counts at parshal throttle(only while letting off the gas) so more leak tests today i guess cause im stuck dont no what else to do.

with tps at 98.8% i was getting the no knock but at like 5.7% tps i was hitting all around numbers.


ok it has good get off from 1k to 3k from 3krpm to 5k it bogges down then from 5k to 7k it flyes, throws me back in my seat. i cant figure out why that mid. range is so slow.any suggestions?

i didnt mean anything by asking for a tech. im just about at that point were i need someone to look at it physicly, i do appreciate your help.

 

[larrys91talon]

my fpr: just looked at vfaqs also and they said at idle or under vac. my fuel pressure should be at 27ish and that should make it around the 36.3 mark at 0psi. so at idle right now i have it at 28psi(was at 40psi under vac.) is this right?but now the vac. guage is fluttering between 10vac. and 14vac. at idle.

got carb. cleaner and sprayed every vac. line i could reach and nothing no change in idle or anything.it didnt flutter at 1500rpm but now that im back to 800rpm it flutters.when i tap the gas and let off it goes to 22vac. steady for a sec then when the idle goes all the way to the 780 800rpm range it flutters.

my compression is 160 across all four cylinders.

could the whole fpr situation be apart of the bogging in mid rpm?

 

[FullRace2G]

when you do a boost leak test it's a good idea to disconnect your boost controller if you have a manual bleed type valve, and then plug the open pressure source. as far as your idle goes 780-800 rpm is fine if it's stable, the factory set curb idle is 750 +0r- 50 rpm. as for the fuel pressure you want to set it about 42 or 43 psi with the vacuum line disconnected and plugged. when it's set correctly and you apply vacuum, your regulator will adjust accordingly around that base pressure...make sure you have a 1 to 1 rising rate regulator, this means that for every 1 psi of boost pressure applied to the regulator it increases fuel pressure by 1 psi. if your regulator is not the right kind, it could be causing your mid throttle hesitations. example: if your regulator is not increasing your fuel pressure accordingly it would be running lean, intern your front O2 sensor would be sending a lean signal to the ecu and your ecu would increase injector pulse width to bring the air fuel mixture back into range. if it can't get the a/f ratio right it's going to surge and hesitate every time the a/f ratio goes hard from rich to lean, it needs to be a smooth transition across the range. hope this helps, maybe.

Aaron

 

[throtlejock]

My talon does the same thing!!! only difference is my tune is totally stock only mods i have are some bolt ons and boost controller set @ 15. I did a boost leak test and found a huge one @ my 14b compressor housing so i always asumed thats why it falls on its face after 4500...

could it be anything else???

Dont mean to barge in hope no one minds

 

[FullRace2G]

All opinions welcome, thats what this forum is for.
Hopefully he can get this thing fixed, always hate to see a dsm not running well. Also, just so you guys know there is a dsm meet tomorrow night at the In&Out at I10 and Ray in Tempe. Most guys show up around 7:30-8:00 pm. Usually theirs a pretty good turn out. Maybe I will see you guys there.

 

[throtlejock]

cool cool i live about an hour or so away so i may or may not make it. so do you think its just my huge boost is the cause of my problem??

 

[larrys91talon]

found out the throttle body shaft seals leaking,thats were the major boost leaks coming from.also my fuel trims arnt changing on the logger when tunning the fuel trims on the afc, the low fuel trims stay at 98.6% but the fto2s change, but i cant seem to get the fto2's to stay floating in the 90 to 110% eather they always end up in the 120 140ish percent range. the mediem and high rainge stay at 100% always also.any suggestions?

also still hitting knock hard but got it down to the 20ish count rainge

and on the meet i'll probubly show up if it will make it out there,we'll see.thanks for the help

 

[FullRace2G]

Keep me posted on any progress with the car, maybe we can get it all fixed soon. Maybe I will see you guys there tonight.

Aaron

 

[larrys91talon]

ordered my throttle body shaft seals today so cant wait to get that problem fixed.

my fuel trims arnt changing on the logger thow when tunning the fuel trims on the afc, the low fuel trims stay at 98.6% but the fto2s change, but i cant seem to get the fto2's to stay floating in the 90 to 110% eather they always end up in the 120 160ish percent range. the mediem and high range stay at 100% always also.any suggestions? i've seem many posts on this problem but no one seems to have figured it out. a friend said his did that when his ecu went bad, i dont no i love the car paid 1700$ for it put about that much into it so far and now all these other problems are killing me.

didnt get to the meet, didnt want to chance it. hope i can get this car on the streets soon or meets.

 

[cslim]

I feel your pain. I just went through this with my 1g. My mods were similar to yours and im still on the 14b. I replaced turbo, fuel filter, manifold, bosst leak test, new exhaust( turbo back) Air filter, maf, ecu, ect. Still ran like crap until I replaced the brand new pump (walbro 190) that I relaced the stock one with , because of the running like crap and hard starting in the morning,ect. Once I changed the fuel pump the second time the car woke up, big time. I went from having a knocking , slow turd to a beast(14b ). My fuel pressure was fine at idle and normal driving but under boost it dropped causing my car to run like crap. Mine hade your symptoms, look at your fuel system!! hope this helps. Also if you need you can drive my car and see how similar the 2 cars pull at thre given boost pressure as a starting point.

 

[larrys91talon]

got a new walbro 255 in it but i heard they can take a crap on you so i probubly need to get a dvmm and check volts from the pump. also i got the t body torn completely apart right now and waiting on the shaft seals i ordered last week 2 day air and there still not here WTF .dude the seals were leaking so bad it held pretty much no boost so im fixing all them leaks first.

i have the new apexi neo afc but i came across a forum were they say there recalling them cause of it not working well with our karman mas so we'll see about that.

im gonna add you as a friend so when the leaks are fixed yah we can check eachothers rides out. its nice seeing someone in the phoenix area hit me up.

 

[larrys91talon]

boost leaks everywere and afc wasnt working right was the problem,took care of them all now runs like a champ.now with the 2g mas, 550cc's,and a custom cslim intake boosting at 15psi its now a beast.

thanks for the help aaron and cslim see u at the in and out meets now.

 

[FullRace2G]

Cool, I'm glad to see you got it all fixed up and running good. Hopefully I'll see you at the next meet, I've actually got my GSX up for sale, got a couple of people interested so we will see what happens. If they give me what I'm asking for it, it may be gone this weekend!
Oh well, DSM's were fun but we've got to move on at some point.

Aaron