Megasquirt Systems...

[defrag010]

Mack & Defrag - you guys need to do some more reading!!

The new dual wheel decoder is already supporting the exact same CAS wheel that's in your CAS. The Probe guys have eliminated their distributors, now running coilpacks, and reading hall sensors that have the same pattern as yours.

Long story short, the functionality is in the Extra code to support a stock 1G cas. Has been for a while now.


-scott

ahh yea, the last time I researched was when the wheel decoder just created, and in beta form, and was still being experimented with. I'm GLAD to hear that it is possible to work with the wheel in our CAS sensors. I said on the megasquirt forum, that if you guys can pull this off, you will be my hero!

did you guys run a new harness through the firewall, or did you patch in with the stock MS harness? I'm gonna be using GM iat and coolant sensors, because I'm gonna junk my stock harness and run the MS harness through my firewall.

 

[Prez]

ahh yea, the last time I researched was when the wheel decoder just created, and in beta form, and was still being experimented with. I'm GLAD to hear that it is possible to work with the wheel in our CAS sensors. I said on the megasquirt forum, that if you guys can pull this off, you will be my hero!

did you guys run a new harness through the firewall, or did you patch in with the stock MS harness? I'm gonna be using GM iat and coolant sensors, because I'm gonna junk my stock harness and run the MS harness through my firewall.

For Fuel Ran 3 Wries through the wall:

Tach signal off the coil packs.
Air Temp
TPS Sensor

For Spark I'm sure more will go through. We got a good VE map on it tonight with the Wideband.

17PSI on EVO III Fully stock fuel system. My goal is to get SAFELLY 20PSI with stock injectors. If I can't do it dafelly then so be it, but going to try. Installing my Fuel Pump and Bushur FPR and then we'll try again but sprak first

Anyone needs a VE map for this let me know. Dieselgeek set that up tonight. w00t

 

[dieselgeek]

Project update:

The wheel decoder *totally* works with the 1G CAS!!! no mods to the CAS, and a very basic mod to a standard megasquirt.


As soon as we determine how to fire the factory ignitor (power transistor) with megasquirt - which should be a very simple circuit - this car will be running.

Stay tuned for updates, we're hoping to have it finished in the next day or two! We will post a detailed writeup in the hopes of answering most questions. If anyone knows off the top of their head, or can find me a link, what signal is used by a 1G ECU to trigger the power transistors (there are two channels, one for each coilpack), please post! If not - I brought my oscilloscope to work today, and tonight I will attach to Prez's factory ECU while idling and answer the question myself.

It should be one of these: a ground pulse, a 12v pulse, or a 5v pulse. I'm also interested to know about dwell management - I'm 99% sure dwell is handled in the ECU, but if there are any experts out there that want to chime in - please do.

-scott

 

[tmizer]

... If anyone knows off the top of their head, or can find me a link, what signal is used by a 1G ECU to trigger the power transistors (there are two channels, one for each coilpack), please post! .....
-scott

Scott-

Not sure if I understand what exactly you're asking for. ECU gets crank angle info from CAS from pin 21, TDC sensor (the *other* CAS sensor) from pin 22.

Coils are fired from power transistor set off from:
Pin 54: Power transistor for 1&4 coil
Pin 55: Power transistor for 2&3 coil

All above info from VFAQ>Electrical>ECU pinouts for 1G turbos

BTW, thanks for keeping us apprised of your MS developments. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's lurking on this thread keeping his fingers crossed that you'll do well and give DSM'ers another viable ECU alternative

You might also hit the experts over at the Yahoo DSM-ECU Group if you have any significant stumbling blocks. There are people there that know the 1G ECU far better than most.

-Tom

 

[dieselgeek]

Tom, thanks for stepping up to the plate!!


The question I have: Pins 54 & 55 are how the ECU triggers the coilpacks (as you state). What I Need to know is what type of signal runs along this wire?

For example, on some modern ECUs (like an LS1) this is a 5v signal. On older ECUs, this can be a 12v pulse or can also be a ground pulse. I can easily make megasquirt work with any of those three signals - I have an oscilloscope and was planning on monitoring those pins, and would quickly be able to identify it...

but Prez is 50 miles away, and it would be nice if I knew what was required so I could be prepared when I get to Prez's shop.

We had a valid tach signal. The hard part is finished!!

 

[tmizer]

It's amazing how much the DSM ECU mods are in their infancy. Nothing like the GM ECU's or the Ford EEC. E.g. - the Ford TweecerRT can do things that make the DSMLink look like a Fisher Price toy. Worse yet, DSMLink is slightly more expensive! I'm not knocking them at all, this is a market economy, and those guys have contributed alot to DSM's in very important ways.

...but I digress. To answer your question, I'd lay good money it's a 5V signal, electronics being CMOS and all. I'd throw the question to Carl Morris et al, on the Yahoo DSM-ECU Group.

 

[dieselgeek]

We should be able to figure it out when we next work on it...

if it's 5v, I can monitor it with a 5v LED tester... I can also test using the 5v power supply coming of Megasquirt.

We'll keep you posted via this thread,

-scott

 

[Prez]

The first Megasquirt SPARK and FUEL controlled DSM is now alive. Runs better than stock at idles and fired up the first damn time.

Pics and Vids to follow.

Dieselgeek is the man!

 

[defrag010]

Word.

Did dieselgeek just have to program the dual wheel decoder, or was there any hardware changes needed? stock coils?

I'm gonna be putting mine on by the end of the summer, I might need some setup advice to get mine setup on the stock CAS like you guys did. Are you just gonna ditch your stock ecu/maf setup? How did you guys wire in the megasquirt to the stock DSM tach?

 

[Prez]

Okay here ae some pics. We used 2 MS units for testing and making sure it ran. The one inside the car was my existing MS running fuel and we used the one outside the car to run the Spark. This way we could make mods to the board without messing up the current fuel maps and easially convert back if something didn't work. Was VERY helpfull.

It only took 4 wires off the Spark controlled MS to make it work. So we need to make the same board modifications to the fuel MS as we did to the spark MS and it will all run on one board then.

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[dieselgeek]

Word.

Did dieselgeek just have to program the dual wheel decoder, or was there any hardware changes needed? stock coils?

I'm gonna be putting mine on by the end of the summer, I might need some setup advice to get mine setup on the stock CAS like you guys did. Are you just gonna ditch your stock ecu/maf setup? How did you guys wire in the megasquirt to the stock DSM tach?

defrag - NO, this is a basic megasquirt and software straight from the developers - nothing custom in the code! There are a few simple hardware mods to be made (after you build a megasquirt, the mods are easy) to allow the optical sensors to interface reliabily with the megasquirt - but these are well-documented and pretty much anyone using either Hall sensors or Optical sensors (like the 1G CAS) has to have them. Really, it's more of a finalized config of the megasquirt...

The tach source for megasquirt comes directly from the 1G CAS. Not the factory tach or the coilpacks. The dash tachometer gets it's signal from the power transistor near the coilpacks, so it is unaffected. Basically, megasquirt is providing the 5v pulses that go to the power transistor, to fire the coilpacks. The rest (fuel) is easy.

I'm going to add a few circuits for Prez (shift light, e-fan control, and a little sumthin sumthin extra ) when we move the spark to his current fuel-only megasquirt, this weekend. You'll find that Megaquirt is really good with extra features, if you can follow a simple electronics diagram then you can option a megasquirt to the max: knock sensor, traction control, boost control, nitrous or water/meth injection, EGO logging, fuel pressure logging, shift lights, - the list is gigantic (see http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra for more).

We have some more basic testing to do on Prez's car this weekend, but I feel it's safe to say this is a stable config. We'll add details later, in the meantime if you have specific questions and want to get a head start on your own DSMegasquirt, post them up.

Should we start a new thread maybe?

-scott

 

[Prez]

Video...

PLEASE RIGHT CLICK SAVE AS

http://www.starcityracing.com/videos/DSM Megasquirt.wmv

 

[Prez]

I also don't think some people understand the HUGE signifigance of this operation. This will allow any DSM user hell any car that has a similar CAS to have a full standalone system on their car if they do the work for under 300 or so in parts.

It works better than an AEM, has more options and is open source. For less than it costs to buy DSM link which is no standalone you can have this which will do pretty much anything you want it to.

 

[kelvinb]

I also don't think some people understand the HUGE signifigance of this operation. This will allow any DSM user hell any car that has a similar CAS to have a full standalone system on their car if they do the work for under 300 or so in parts.

It works better than an AEM, has more options and is open source. For less than it costs to buy DSM link which is no standalone you can have this which will do pretty much anything you want it to.

more pics and vids to come for sure

 

[WHite97RS]

www.rsautosport.com, complete built MSnS with board mod of yoru choic and 3 bar map for 299 shipped. you can also buy a sweet labeled harness from hime for 55 bucks. this guy is awesome i have all his products in hand and am throughly amazed, will be under total MSnS control in about 2 weeks.

 

[aero_sallee]

Forgot the dash. Quick googled it.
www.rs-autosport.com

 

[dieselgeek]

For those jumping on the bandwagon, here's the mods you'll need to make to a basic Megasquirt like Rodney's (RS-autosport):

12v pullup circuit on primary tach input (the outer ring on a 1G CAS)
5v pullup circuit on secondary tach input (inner ring on 1G CAS)

Disable LEDs 17 & 19, use them as spark output A & B to your power transistor/ignitor


I used 3 of the 4 spare wires in the DB37 harness - 2 for coil trigger outputs, one for the secondary tach input.


I recommend using a 1G CAS (won't it bolt into a 2G motor?) as both signals you need for wheel decoding are in the CAS. If you went with a 2G setup, you'd need a VR conditioning circuit for the crankshaft position sensor - which is a lot of effort that isn't needed.


Any other questions, post up!

-scott

 

[defrag010]

Rodney also sells the ECU combo kit package. It's the ECU with your choice of firmware, the DB37 plug, and the wire harness.. all for 319$ shipped. It's 30$ to add the option of a 3-bar map sensor, also. Well worth the money.

So Dieselgeek, If I make the pullup circuits for my CAS, and perform all of the hardware mods to my megasquirt that I'm gonna use (goodies like shift light, knock sensor, etc, etc), will you be able to save and send me the config file from prez's setup and will I be able to load it on my box and it will already be setup like prez's? I'm just worrying because I loathe sofware and code. I can get the base VE map no problem, but I just don't know how I would configure the dual wheel decoder.

 

[Prez]

There to my knowledge which could be wrong no config we needed to do to get the wheeldecoder to work as Scott said the programming is already in MS.

I can send you anyfiles you want. Hell even my entire MS directory if you wish. We'll have a timing map Satruday.

I have a wideband tuned fuel map for 17PSI on a EVO III with stock fuel system. 11 AFR.

 

[dieselgeek]

Rodney also sells the ECU combo kit package. It's the ECU with your choice of firmware, the DB37 plug, and the wire harness.. all for 319$ shipped. It's 30$ to add the option of a 3-bar map sensor, also. Well worth the money.

So Dieselgeek, If I make the pullup circuits for my CAS, and perform all of the hardware mods to my megasquirt that I'm gonna use (goodies like shift light, knock sensor, etc, etc), will you be able to save and send me the config file from prez's setup and will I be able to load it on my box and it will already be setup like prez's? I'm just worrying because I loathe sofware and code. I can get the base VE map no problem, but I just don't know how I would configure the dual wheel decoder.

All true. MS is pretty easy to set up, but yes we can give you Prez's config (all good now) and walk you through any issues you may have,

-scott

 

[monotalonawd]

Great work guys!

I first read about Megasquirt on Probetalk.com and was wondering if that fabulous standalone would be used on a dsm one day (spark and fuel, that is). I'll be soon installing one myself!

Just one question, do we lose the stutter box option when converting to an MS? I think I read on Msefi.com that it cannot retard timing beyond a certain point?! Is that true?

 

[dieselgeek]

Great work guys!

I first read about Megasquirt on Probetalk.com and was wondering if that fabulous standalone would be used on a dsm one day (spark and fuel, that is). I'll be soon installing one myself!

Just one question, do we lose the stutter box option when converting to an MS? I think I read on Msefi.com that it cannot retard timing beyond a certain point?! Is that true?

If you control the coilpacks like we're doing on Prez's car, you get ALL the advanced timing retard / soft rev limit / hard rev limit features. Including a 2-step boost builder / launch control featuer if you want it,

-scott

 

[monotalonawd]

Thanks, Scott!

I assume all those possibilities are just some coding and programming away!

 

[4G63 GST]

funny .. i just came across this ..

My friend and i are doing a MegaSquirt on his Toyota AE86 .. i for one was nervous to put it on the dsm ..

seems complicated to me .. i understand how most of the stuff works on it .. but i just dont have the time to do it on my own vehicle.

Good job fellas .. post some more videos if you have time!!

Thanks
Luke

 

[dieselgeek]

Thanks, Scott!

I assume all those possibilities are just some coding and programming away!

uhhh, NO!!!!!!

unless clicking on a menu bar, and selecting "rev limiting options" from a menu is coding to you, this is all stuff that's already buyilt into the hardware & software of megasquirt.

For specific installations like the DSM, there are a few changes you make while assembling the megasquirt: (1) modified tach input circuit to work with both sensors inside the 1G CAS and (2) convert two of the LEDs into spark outputs. I think of these more as "installation specific configurations" instead of "modifications" to the basic Megasquirt PCB: each different ignition type (from old school distributor & single coil, to the more advanced Ford EDIS, or the newest tech direct coilpack control by the ECU) requires your last few assembly steps on the megasquirt to be a little different. There are clear instructions for each type of installation for you to follow...


so, long story short, NO I haven't had to do ANY coding or compiling myself for all the megasquirt installs I've done. This includes the following vehicles: a 4.6 SOHC Turbo mustang, the 408 LS1 turbo in this truck; a supercharged 5.0 mustang, a couple 2.5l Probes with custom turbo installs, and a few other oddball vehicles...