Full sound system... good yes/no

[v8killar]

Get this sub and everything to power it and you won't have to worry about listening to speakers and other audio components in your car

http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=3343

 

[fr33b1rth]

He doesn't need a cap. And he sure as hell doesnt need 0 AWG wire. Caps are a waste of money.... They look nice and work great as paper weight though.

caps a waste of money? well if you would do a little research, that system can draw up to 120A of power. It isn't a good idea to draw anything over 80A over 4GA wire, so 0ga is the next step. caps a waste? okay, go get a real amp and real subs in your car and see if the headlights dim...they will. add a cap and they won't.

If caps are a waste of money then why do professional DB drag racing competitors use them?

 

[napkinthief]

Drag racers use caps for thier system? Never heard that one before.

A cap is useless. I had one in my car, and I sold it due to it doing nothing.

If you want your lights not to dim when the system bumps, turn down the volume.

If you want to play your music for 2 hours full blast with the car off, get a few more batteries.


And get whatever brand you like. I liked the sony subs ### they looked cool, and they sounded pretty good to me. Everyone said they gonna break, its been a year....nothing...

I also picked up the biggest xplod amp they got, the 1300 watt one, 600 rms, the subs were 380 rms each, and the sound is fine.

 

[BLUEBLOTCH]

Honestly I have a system and its a pain in the ass not having any room for anything if there is any luggage my car is a 2 seater. no luggage I can fit 3 girls comfortably.

I have had up to 4 girls plus me in my car. I was comfortable since I was driving.
They couldnt even put their purses in the back b/c of speakers and amp.

 

[ROOKIE1]

With all these suggestions , why has no one asked about type of music ? Subs are not to just knock down you rear view mirror . You need quality , clean sound . Are 2 subs needed for type of music ? I like alot of bass so I got a kicker 12" L7 . This amp for sub only , Kicker KX Series 04KX1200.1 1200w RMS Monoblock Amplifier . Sometimes feels like my ears are going to start bleeding . I found some really good prices on remanufactured electronics on ubid.com .

 

[fr33b1rth]

Drag racers use caps for thier system? Never heard that one before.

DB drab racing, you know, with speakers.... louder is better type thing. the measure in DB's, the higher one wins...

Anyways, a battery can only deliver power so fast. that's why when the bass hits, your lights dim. battery's are slow!

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/capacitor.htm

In a way, a capacitor is a little like a battery. Although they work in completely different ways, capacitors and batteries both store electrical energy. If you have read How Batteries Work, then you know that a battery has two terminals. Inside the battery, chemical reactions produce electrons on one terminal and absorb electrons at the other terminal.

A capacitor is a much simpler device, and it cannot produce new electrons -- it only stores them. In this article, you'll learn exactly what a capacitor is and how it's used in electronics.

Basicly a cap works as a extremly fast buffer. it stores electrons generated by the alternator that are passed through the battery. A cap is able to deliver power to the amp very quickly reducing the "sudden" load on the rest of the charging system, therefor reducing likleyhood of the lights dimming because of voltage drop.

One way to visualize the action of a capacitor is to imagine it as a water tower hooked to a pipe. A water tower "stores" water pressure -- when the water system pumps produce more water than a town needs, the excess is stored in the water tower. Then, at times of high demand, the excess water flows out of the tower to keep the pressure up. A capacitor stores electrons in the same way, and can then release them later.

Go get a battery and connect two wires to it. put them in your mouth. you will feel a shock. now add a cap into the loop. stick the wires back into your mouth. i don't think that you will be able to tell me what happens after that because you will be in quite a bit more pain. that is if you are dumb enough to try it in the first place, and yes, this part is a test to see if you can read an entire post without replying before you are done reading.

 

[DROOPY209]

I've worked many years in car audio/video as an installer, system designer, and custom installations, And I don't mean a small, cheap, knock off brand store. I'm talking about a very well known high-end shop.

Myth#1---Capacitors help out your bass and stop your headlights from dimming.

Reality=false. A capacitor acts like a sponge in the power circuit. It holds some power and allows a certain amount of current to flow through, basically putting your amp in a small choke hold so that it doesn't pull the current that it wants to pull from your charging system, thus, the headlights wont dim if your amp isn't able to draw the (A) amps that it wanted/needed to.

A capacitor is just an overrated very simple thing to make out of aluminum foil.

I've never seen a dB drag competitor EVER using a capacitor. They use extra batteries for the burps they do.

Skip the cap, get a better battery, and you don't NEED 0 gauge wire. You will be kool with 4gauge.

 

[Attack Eagle]

caps a waste of money? well if you would do a little research, that system can draw up to 120A of power. It isn't a good idea to draw anything over 80A over 4GA wire, so 0ga is the next step. caps a waste? okay, go get a real amp and real subs in your car and see if the headlights dim...they will. add a cap and they won't.

If caps are a waste of money then why do professional DB drag racing competitors use them?

1 after 4 ga there is 2 gauge.
2 4ga is rated for 150 amps at 14.4 volts.
3 you are confusing wire rating with recommended size based on amperage AND length.

http://www.the12volt.com/info/recwirsz.asp
According to the wiring chart 4 gauge is more than ample.

2nd caps are a panacea. I have a real amp and sub and my headlights don't dim. And even if they do its a flicker at max output at idle with everything else on and my undersdrive providing practically no charging at idle. A cap in essence electrically "relocates the battery" to where the cap is. That's why to do anygood you have to get them preferably within 6 inches of the amps positive and neagtive terminal. After the distribution block. That is it. It doesn't lessen the demand on the charging systems when playing, becasue you have to recharge it as well. You are supposed to be playing off the alternator, not the battery. the battery is a reserve for starting, and in case your electrical needs BRIEFLY (and not repetitively like 27 bass notes in a row) exceed capacity, like every light on, radio on, all fans on, and you hit every other switch in the car at once.

In a daily driver you can add a cap if you want. But like someone said, if your lights are flickering like mad, you need to turn it down because you are discharging the battery. Adding a cap can mask this by making the visible flicker less sudden, but does not fix the lack of charging capacity problem that caused it.
Not ONE well built highpowered system I have ever seen or built, has ever used nor needed a cap. Except those running cheater amps for SPL only, and those who demanded one b/c it was "better".

 

[remmargorp]

You would benefit more from an upgraded alternator than you would from a better battery. Unless you plan on playing your music with your car off (the majority of the time).

 

[snyper1982]

I have said this before, if your lights are dimming, put a voltage regulator on your lights, at say 12 volts. Your dimming problems will be gone. The ONLY caps that can do any sort of good, are electrolytic caps with really low ESR. All those super caps, the 5+ farads are actually a hinderance to your system due the the high internal resistance. They create a voltage drop, and the higher the demand, the higher the voltage drop.

All they are gonna do is smoth out the voltage. I can promise you, they will not affect the sound in any audible way.


Let me explain WHY your lights dim. Your lights are very sensitive to voltage change, and when your voltage drops due to a large bass hit, it is very noticable. Even a 1 volt drop is very noticable. Because the resistance of the headlight doesnt change(not technically true, but for demonstration, lets assume it doesnt) say you have a headlight that has a 2.5 ohm resistance,
at 12.8(battery voltage) volts that is 65.5 watts
13.5v=72.9 watts
14.4(what most alts actually output)=82.9 watts

That is a pretty wide spectrum.

 

[DSMBen]

Get a JL 12w7 with a JL 1000/1 Amp.

Oh my god, it will rock you so hard.

 

[cHz]

Get a JL 12w7 with a JL 1000/1 Amp.

Oh my god, it will rock you so hard.

How much is that going to run me?

 

[snyper1982]

Get a JL 12w7 with a JL 1000/1 Amp.

Oh my god, it will rock you so hard.

While I don't disagree, that sub alone is more than what he wants to spend on his subs, sub amp, and 4ch amp. Your talking about spending 1200+ for a single sub and amp. You can get an Adire audio Brahma or an Image Dynamics IDMax, both of wich are on par with a w-7 for half what it costs.

 

[DSMBen]

Well, i know people witht hat combo, and it is by far the best i have heard or felt

But yet, it is JL and is going to come with a big price tag, but it's amazing audio.

 

[snyper1982]

Believe me, I know how good JL is. They are top notch. I do think the W7 is still the best sub on the market, I just think it is over priced. The name JL carries a hefty price tag. I paid it though for my 2 10W7's

 

[fr33b1rth]

I have said this before, if your lights are dimming, put a voltage regulator on your lights, at say 12 volts. Your dimming problems will be gone. The ONLY caps that can do any sort of good, are electrolytic caps with really low ESR. All those super caps, the 5+ farads are actually a hinderance to your system due the the high internal resistance. They create a voltage drop, and the higher the demand, the higher the voltage drop.

All they are gonna do is smoth out the voltage. I can promise you, they will not affect the sound in any audible way.


Let me explain WHY your lights dim. Your lights are very sensitive to voltage change, and when your voltage drops due to a large bass hit, it is very noticable. Even a 1 volt drop is very noticable. Because the resistance of the headlight doesnt change(not technically true, but for demonstration, lets assume it doesnt) say you have a headlight that has a 2.5 ohm resistance,
at 12.8(battery voltage) volts that is 65.5 watts
13.5v=72.9 watts
14.4(what most alts actually output)=82.9 watts

That is a pretty wide spectrum.

Well, lets see here. In my 1986 Caprice with a 150A alternator, 4ga wire running from the alternator to the starter, from the starter to the battery, from the alternator to the battery, and from the battery to my lanzar 1200D running at 1ohm. I also regounded the engine and body with 4ga wire. using the stock voltage guage with my car running it is at 14V. Turn on the headlights, it goes to about 13.5, turn the blower on high and it goes down to 13V. Now turn on the stereo and turn it up and play a 60Hz tone. as the bass hits the voltage goes would go down as low as 8V in about 7 seconds. Everything would dim badly, and you could hear the feel the blower blow less air out of the vents as the bass hit, and the time went on. That's with the car idleing at 850RPM. I've had an amprege meter on the alternator at idle and it put out about 85A. Now playing regular music, it didn't drop that much, but it would go to about 10V listning to it at idle playing "Tech n9ne - I'ma tell" which has a series of bass lines that gradually go from about 90hz to about 45hz.

Added a 3F cap inline with the amp with 6 inches of 4ga wire between the amp and the cap. added a second grounding point in the trunk for the cap. now turn everything back on and play the same test tone. it also took about 7 seconds for the voltage to drop to 8V playing the test tone, but playing the same song the voltage never would drop below 12V.

The cap that i have clams to have an ESR lower than 0.0016 OHM. Do i buy it? no. it also is a 20-24V cap, so it doesn't actully have a 3F capacity at 14V, but it works and it cost me $90.

Yes, it's true that in some cases adding a cap actully can cause more harm that good, but for normal use it is a positive thing. Yes it's true that it's basicly relocaing the battery closer to the amp, but a cap does one thing that a battery doesn't. A cap discharges much faster than a battery, and slowly absorbs energy while it's recharging. Therfor while playing regular music it "delays" the shock on the rest of the electrical system spreading it out more, but once the cap is empty (which doesn't happen very fast, so it doesn't typically happen while listning to music because the amp isn't consistantly drawing lots of power) it can actully reduce the voltage that your amp sees.

Certain SPL competitors will use a few very large caps right before their amps (but after their batteries) because they are running unregulated amps that play much louder at 14V than 11V or 12V. The caps simply help the rest of the electrical system maintiain the higher voltage that the amps like.

 

[cHz]

Alright guys, haha, enough arguing. I have only gotten one post with a full system, not saying your guy's posts aren't helpful, but the one with the cap and stuff was the type of post I was looking for.

 

[bmason]

caps a waste of money? well if you would do a little research, that system can draw up to 120A of power. It isn't a good idea to draw anything over 80A over 4GA wire, so 0ga is the next step. caps a waste? okay, go get a real amp and real subs in your car and see if the headlights dim...they will. add a cap and they won't.

If caps are a waste of money then why do professional DB drag racing competitors use them?

you are crazy 8 guage can hold 80 amp safely


i was running my mrd1005 on 8 guage for a while and never had a problem with it


and caps are a waste of money i have 1 1 farad cap and 1 2 farad cap in my car and i cant tell a differnce between not having and having them



the best way to make your lights not dim is to take a 4 guage wire and ground ## car in a better spot and run a ground from your alternator to a better spot and then replace your alternator to batter wire

i found this solved all of my problems and i have a shitty stock battery and that amp pulls a alot of juice

 

[snyper1982]

Well, lets see here. In my 1986 Caprice with a 150A alternator, 4ga wire running from the alternator to the starter, from the starter to the battery, from the alternator to the battery, and from the battery to my lanzar 1200D running at 1ohm. I also regounded the engine and body with 4ga wire. using the stock voltage guage with my car running it is at 14V. Turn on the headlights, it goes to about 13.5, turn the blower on high and it goes down to 13V. Now turn on the stereo and turn it up and play a 60Hz tone. as the bass hits the voltage goes would go down as low as 8V in about 7 seconds. Everything would dim badly, and you could hear the feel the blower blow less air out of the vents as the bass hit, and the time went on. That's with the car idleing at 850RPM. I've had an amprege meter on the alternator at idle and it put out about 85A. Now playing regular music, it didn't drop that much, but it would go to about 10V listning to it at idle playing "Tech n9ne - I'ma tell" which has a series of bass lines that gradually go from about 90hz to about 45hz.

Added a 3F cap inline with the amp with 6 inches of 4ga wire between the amp and the cap. added a second grounding point in the trunk for the cap. now turn everything back on and play the same test tone. it also took about 7 seconds for the voltage to drop to 8V playing the test tone, but playing the same song the voltage never would drop below 12V.

The cap that i have clams to have an ESR lower than 0.0016 OHM. Do i buy it? no. it also is a 20-24V cap, so it doesn't actully have a 3F capacity at 14V, but it works and it cost me $90.

Yes, it's true that in some cases adding a cap actully can cause more harm that good, but for normal use it is a positive thing. Yes it's true that it's basicly relocaing the battery closer to the amp, but a cap does one thing that a battery doesn't. A cap discharges much faster than a battery, and slowly absorbs energy while it's recharging. Therfor while playing regular music it "delays" the shock on the rest of the electrical system spreading it out more, but once the cap is empty (which doesn't happen very fast, so it doesn't typically happen while listning to music because the amp isn't consistantly drawing lots of power) it can actully reduce the voltage that your amp sees.

Certain SPL competitors will use a few very large caps right before their amps (but after their batteries) because they are running unregulated amps that play much louder at 14V than 11V or 12V. The caps simply help the rest of the electrical system maintiain the higher voltage that the amps like.

Like I said, a cap with a low ESR, which your cap has, can do some good. It will smooth out the peaks and valleys. That is why they are called "stiffening" caps. All the new spuer caps are absolutely worthless though, and will stand by my statement that no cap will make an audible difference in your system. If you want to use one by all means, go ahead, it is after all your money.

 

[bmason]

for the price of a good cap u could almost buy a yellow top

 

[Trucloner11]

Dude dont go with pioneer! Get a better qualitly with MTX Alpine or Rockford...and that amp seems overpriced to me

 

[snyper1982]

Dude dont go with pioneer! Get a better qualitly with MTX Alpine or Rockford...and that amp seems overpriced to me

Pioneer makes good stuff too. Theier Premier lineup of decks is right up there with the eclipse and alpines. Other than that they make decent smaller speakers. I wouldnt use any of their subs though.