Cut in power and high EGT's........here the issue

[UNDR PSI]

Ok. Here is whats going on. You have probally seen my post titled "vehicle sat for winter, now problems"..... http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216137 .....The car still isnt running right. Runs fine WOT until about 10psi, then loss of power from there on. I cant get above 3500-4000 RPM before I have to let off because my EGT's his 1600. Here is what ive done so far. I have drained the fuel tank, put fresh gas in, changed the fuel filter, reset the ECU, replaced the plugs, checked for boost leaks. I did a few runs with my logger ( as long as I could before EGT's got to high). I am out of ideas as to why it was fine last fall, now its not. Here is a couple logs. Any suggestions/ideas on tuning and/or checking parts?? Thanks. By the way, boost is set at 20psi right now while trying to figure this out. Normally set at 25psi.

4TH GEAR @ WOT
TIME RPM__ DEG_ 02
0.34 2452.0 21.0 0.92
0.69 2484.0 22.0 0.92
1.02 2536.0 22.0 0.92
1.36 2592.0 23.0 0.90
1.70 2624.0 22.0 0.90
2.04 2688.0 22.0 0.90
2.37 2744.0 22.0 0.90
2.71 2784.0 22.0 0.90
3.04 2836.0 21.0 0.90
3.38 2900.0 20.0 0.90
3.71 2944.0 19.0 0.90
4.05 2996.0 16.0 0.90
4.39 3056.0 16.0 0.90
4.72 3108.0 15.0 0.92
5.05 3200.0 11.0 0.92
5.39 3224.0 10.0 0.94
5.73 3288.0 09.0 0.94
6.06 3356.0 09.0 0.94
6.40 3460.0 09.0 0.92
6.73 3512.0 10.0 0.92
7.06 3612.0 10.0 0.92
7.40 3656.0 10.0 0.92
7.74 3720.0 10.0 0.90
8.07 3804.0 13.0 0.90
8.41 3880.0 13.0 0.90
8.76 3972.0 13.0 0.88


5TH GEAR @ WOT

TIME RPM__ DEG_ 02
0.34 1928.0 20.0 0.90
0.68 1948.0 19.0 0.90
1.01 1968.0 19.0 0.90
1.35 1992.0 19.0 0.90
1.68 2012.0 20.0 0.90
2.02 2040.0 20.0 0.90
2.35 2060.0 20.0 0.90
2.68 2080.0 20.0 0.90
3.02 2096.0 20.0 0.90
3.36 2124.0 20.0 0.90
3.69 2132.0 20.0 0.90
4.02 2168.0 20.0 0.90
4.36 2204.0 20.0 0.92
4.69 2224.0 21.0 0.92
5.03 2256.0 21.0 0.90
5.38 2268.0 21.0 0.92
5.71 2296.0 20.0 0.92
6.05 2308.0 21.0 0.92
6.39 2336.0 21.0 0.92
6.73 2368.0 20.0 0.90
7.07 2388.0 21.0 0.92
7.41 2424.0 20.0 0.92
7.76 2452.0 21.0 0.90
8.09 2480.0 22.0 0.90
8.42 2492.0 21.0 0.90
8.77 2524.0 22.0 0.90
9.10 2548.0 22.0 0.90
9.44 2580.0 22.0 0.90
9.79 2616.0 21.0 0.90
10.1 2644.0 21.0 0.88
10.4 2676.0 20.0 0.88
10.8 2700.0 20.0 0.88
11.1 2724.0 19.0 0.88
11.4 2752.0 17.0 0.88
11.8 2788.0 17.0 0.88
12.1 2820.0 17.0 0.88
12.4 2844.0 16.0 0.88
12.8 2868.0 15.0 0.90
13.1 2896.0 14.0 0.90
13.4 2940.0 13.0 0.90
13.8 2972.0 11.0 0.90
14.1 3020.0 10.0 0.92
14.4 3032.0 9.00 0.92
14.8 3100.0 9.00 0.94
15.1 3108.0 9.00 0.94
15.5 3144.0 9.00 0.92
15.8 3204.0 9.00 0.92
16.1 3236.0 9.00 0.92
16.5 3284.0 9.00 0.92
16.8 3344.0 9.00 0.92
17.2 3384.0 10.0 0.92
17.5 3420.0 10.0 0.92
17.9 3464.0 10.0 0.92
18.2 3516.0 10.0 0.92
18.5 3552.0 10.0 0.90
18.9 3588.0 10.0 0.90

 

[tstkl]

well i can tell you your running rich. what do you have as far as tuning is concerned? did you check the base timing? did you check to make sure you are getting good spark in all cylinders. spark is different from GOOD spark. maybe its some bad wires/coil pack. only thing I can think to do is get a friend with a lot of the same parts and start trying his electrical things. coil pack, wires, maf, then work your way up to the harder stuff if that doesnt help. rememeber to do it one at a time so you know exactly what is screwing your car up. you also might want to check your injectors as one could be clogged, although I doubt that since your running rich. maybe the over compinsation in the other cylinders is causing you to run very rich in those cylinders and very lean in the one with the clogged injector, but then you would hear it misfireing. If the injector is stuck open you would have some serious problems at idle, which I didnt read the other thread so I dont know if this is the case, but you might consider trying. In short it could be, but I doubt, the injectors. Worth a try if its of no cost to you.

your losing a lot of timing, are you getting a lot of knock? (shoot 2g, no knock sensor, right?)

btw pm a mod and ask them to move this thread to the problem diagnostics forum, since thats where it belongs.

 

[UNDR PSI]

well i can tell you your running rich. what do you have as far as tuning is concerned? did you check the base timing? did you check to make sure you are getting good spark in all cylinders. spark is different from GOOD spark. maybe its some bad wires/coil pack. only thing I can think to do is get a friend with a lot of the same parts and start trying his electrical things. coil pack, wires, maf, then work your way up to the harder stuff if that doesnt help. rememeber to do it one at a time so you know exactly what is screwing your car up. you also might want to check your injectors as one could be clogged, although I doubt that since your running rich. maybe the over compinsation in the other cylinders is causing you to run very rich in those cylinders and very lean in the one with the clogged injector, but then you would hear it misfireing. If the injector is stuck open you would have some serious problems at idle, which I didnt read the other thread so I dont know if this is the case, but you might consider trying. In short it could be, but I doubt, the injectors. Worth a try if its of no cost to you.

your losing a lot of timing, are you getting a lot of knock? (shoot 2g, no knock sensor, right?)

btw pm a mod and ask them to move this thread to the problem diagnostics forum, since thats where it belongs.

isnt it in the problem diagnostics forum?? Also, why do you insist that im running rich?? My EGT's wouldnt be going up if i was running rich, and my o2's wouldnt be where that at, right? High EGT's is due to lean conditions not rich, correct if I am wrong. Thanks.

 

[UNDR PSI]

any other ideas??

 

[alex99gst]

Is it possible that your probe for the EGT has gone wack? How old is it?

 

[UNDR PSI]

Is it possible that your probe for the EGT has gone wack? How old is it?

I doubt it. Probe is as old as the motor is. 4k miles about

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Looks lean to me.

I'm no pro, but when I log my car I aim for a .96 or so. Any higher is extremely rich, I just like lots of fuel since I have no way to add it if I don't have enough.
.88 seems excessively lean. I don't know if I've ever seen a .88 on my car (mostly stock) during a WOT pull.
Your timing looks about right for not so good tune. Also I suggest lowering your boost to 10psi until you get this sorted out.

At around 3k is when most turbos start to spool and your timing will usually dip at that point and then slowly raise to ~19* at 7krpm. The curve should be steady. From my experience your timing curve looks about how it should at those RPM's. Not great but close.

I suggest that you zero out your AFC or close to, and start your tune from scratch. From your log it looks to me like you could add and subtract fuel from a few spots throughout the RPM range. Just take it slow and add fuel where you need to and vice versa.

And of course do a boost leak test etc.

If anyone disagrees with me PLEASE put me in my place.

EDIT: if you are having fuel delivery problems messing about with your tune won't solve anything. This is assuming everything is in working order, you just have a terrible tune in the upper RPM's.
Also use your EGT gauge, if you're getting a stong steady reading of .94 or something but your gauge is reading 1700* or 900* you will know something is up.

 

[Turbocharged]

Looks lean to me.

I'm no pro, but when I log my car I aim for a .96 or so. Any higher is extremely rich, I just like lots of fuel since I have no way to add it if I don't have enough.
.88 seems excessively lean. I don't know if I've ever seen a .88 on my car (mostly stock) during a WOT pull.
Your timing looks about right for not so good tune. Also I suggest lowering your boost to 10psi until you get this sorted out.

At around 3k is when most turbos start to spool and your timing will usually dip at that point and then slowly raise to ~19* at 7krpm. The curve should be steady. From my experience your timing curve looks about how it should at those RPM's. Not great but close.

I suggest that you zero out your AFC or close to, and start your tune from scratch. From your log it looks to me like you could add and subtract fuel from a few spots throughout the RPM range. Just take it slow and add fuel where you need to and vice versa.

And of course do a boost leak test etc.

If anyone disagrees with me PLEASE put me in my place.

EDIT: if you are having fuel delivery problems messing about with your tune won't solve anything. This is assuming everything is in working order, you just have a terrible tune in the upper RPM's

Good ideas but you should never tune based on o2 sensor readings. You should tune off of timing and knock. O2 sensor readings at WOT will vary +/- 0.05 from car to car depending on the condition of the sensor. If you have a wideband its a different story.

Your timing looks very low once boost hits. You are either too lean or you have a boost leak. In another thread you stated that your AFC setting may have gotten reset. Have you looked into that? Have you tested for boost leaks? High EGT's usually indicates a lean condition. Give it some more fuel and see where that gets you.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Good ideas but you should never tune based on o2 sensor readings. You should tune off of timing and knock. O2 sensor readings at WOT will vary +/- 0.05 from car to car depending on the condition of the sensor. If you have a wideband its a different story.

Your timing looks very low once boost hits. You are either too lean or you have a boost leak. In another thread you stated that your AFC setting may have gotten reset. Have you looked into that? Have you tested for boost leaks? High EGT's usually indicates a lean condition. Give it some more fuel and see where that gets you.

I totally agree with you. They are a nothing more than an indication of a lean or rich condition. Thats why I emphasized the use of his EGT gauge. But I should have expressed not to rely on the 02 readings.

 

[sweet97]

Going by the o2's that is rich! .85-.87 is pefect IMHO. Is it possible the exhaust system is plugged somehow causing the high egt's? Maybe a bunch of rodents built a hotel in there!
I would try leaning it and watch the EGT's. See what it does. There is also rich knock. Mark
This is an interesting situation but I hope you get it resolved soon. Mark

 

[UNDR PSI]

Looks lean to me.

I'm no pro, but when I log my car I aim for a .96 or so. Any higher is extremely rich, I just like lots of fuel since I have no way to add it if I don't have enough.
.88 seems excessively lean. I don't know if I've ever seen a .88 on my car (mostly stock) during a WOT pull.
Your timing looks about right for not so good tune. Also I suggest lowering your boost to 10psi until you get this sorted out.

At around 3k is when most turbos start to spool and your timing will usually dip at that point and then slowly raise to ~19* at 7krpm. The curve should be steady. From my experience your timing curve looks about how it should at those RPM's. Not great but close.

I suggest that you zero out your AFC or close to, and start your tune from scratch. From your log it looks to me like you could add and subtract fuel from a few spots throughout the RPM range. Just take it slow and add fuel where you need to and vice versa.

And of course do a boost leak test etc.

If anyone disagrees with me PLEASE put me in my place.

EDIT: if you are having fuel delivery problems messing about with your tune won't solve anything. This is assuming everything is in working order, you just have a terrible tune in the upper RPM's.
Also use your EGT gauge, if you're getting a stong steady reading of .94 or something but your gauge is reading 1700* or 900* you will know something is up.

If you read my originally post, it will answer alot of this, alot of what you said I had already done. The tuning hasnt changed since last fall when it was dyno tuned by AMS. The AFC is the same as it was after the tune. I cant lower my boost below 17psi because i have and external wastegate and the spring is a 17lb spring.

 

[UNDR PSI]

Good ideas but you should never tune based on o2 sensor readings. You should tune off of timing and knock. O2 sensor readings at WOT will vary +/- 0.05 from car to car depending on the condition of the sensor. If you have a wideband its a different story.

Your timing looks very low once boost hits. You are either too lean or you have a boost leak. In another thread you stated that your AFC setting may have gotten reset. Have you looked into that? Have you tested for boost leaks? High EGT's usually indicates a lean condition. Give it some more fuel and see where that gets you.

Like I said in the last post, and in previous posts, i checked the AFC, did a boost leak test, ect. I dont see how the tuning could have changed just sitting in the garage over winter. I havent messed with the AFC since AMS tuned in last year. I cant even log under full boost because I cant get there before EGT's get to high. ( DAM 50trim's and there late spools, ).

I am kind of beginning to think that it might be a clogged injector, or an injector not getting enough power to disperse the right amount of fuel. I think maybe the ECU thinks that it is giving the right amount of fuel, but in reality, the injector isnt putting as much in as the ECU tells it to??

 

[UNDR PSI]

Thinking it might be all tuning. Did some runs, leaned out the AFC at lower RPM's......it brought some power back, but EGT's still go up. Thinking I am going to need to richen it as the RPM's go up. Going to be a long day of test and tune, . If it is just a tunning issue, i dont see how in the world it could have changed just sitting in the garage over winter, oh wait yes i do...... its a DSM.

 

[UNDR PSI]

Does anyone think it could be a bad O2 sensor causing all this?

 

[Turbocharged]

Does anyone think it could be a bad O2 sensor causing all this?

The ecu goes into open loop under WOT and does not monitor O2 sensor readings. Have you tried adding fuel in the upper rpms?