confirmed rings burned up...

[Bostedquest]

Ok... this is my hell for the past 2 months or so...

Got motor rebuilt.
after rebuild compression was 195 all four. Fired right up but with boost leaks so it was running kinda crapy. Anyway, appearantly a large air bubble was still in the block, and it started shooting steam out the open thermo cap, so I shut it down and filled it more.

2 weeks later after it refused to start, again I ran the compression test again... dire...
max of 115ish.
Great remove head, warped (.05-.08). Remove head and the intake cam was also destroyed somehow through oil starvation. I did get it to run once with the throttle full open.
Very low RPM's, so I am guessing that is what did the damage.

So I get a new head, rebuild it (though did not check for warpage I know... stupid me) and the numbers considerably improved. 1/2 155-160 3/4 120-130
So while this newer head may be slightly warped, I am also looking at maybe the rings burned up...
The HG is a Cometic 4 layer.

any other idea's?

 

[liquordrunk]

Ok... this is my hell for the past 2 months or so...

Got motor rebuilt.
after rebuild compression was 195 all four. Fired right up but with boost leaks so it was running kinda crapy. Anyway, appearantly a large air bubble was still in the block, and it started shooting steam out the open thermo cap, so I shut it down and filled it more.

2 weeks later after it refused to start, again I ran the compression test again... dire...
max of 115ish.
Great remove head, warped (.05-.08). Remove head and the intake cam was also destroyed somehow through oil starvation. I did get it to run once with the throttle full open.
Very low RPM's, so I am guessing that is what did the damage.

So I get a new head, rebuild it (though did not check for warpage I know... stupid me) and the numbers considerably improved. 1/2 155-160 3/4 120-130
So while this newer head may be slightly warped, I am also looking at maybe the rings burned up...
The HG is a Cometic 4 layer.

any other idea's?

Sounds like it could be rings, have you added oil to see if the compression goes up.
Or have you tried a leak down test?

 

[Bostedquest]

OK... did oil cap test...
No oil oil
1 150 170
2 155 180
3 130 160
4 125 155

Leakdown... within 6 minutes compression is gone.

so yeah.. the rings are gone.
Literally on the phone right now with summit...
And they are now giving me the run around... about a set of rings that have 20 minutes of run time on them.

I have now been passed on to Wiesco and have spoken to a "Dewayne" who has given me over to "Ron Grismol" (I am sure I have butchered the spelling of both their names) and I was left to leave a voice mail message with him.
"Dewayne" has given the impression that they will replace them given the info that I have passed to them that the machine shop gave to me.

I will continue to update as this continues, I was less than impressed with Summit's non-chelate attitude of "let someone else handle it"...
I am now a spokesperson for Jeg's, or other people... I will not recommend, or deal with Summit ever again.

 

[Bostedquest]

Ok, just got off the phone with Ron, he said that with the info at hand, it cerainl sounds like the rings are gone.
If I was willing to remove the pistons and send the rings to them they would confirm the damage, and most likely replace them free of charge, I just pay S&H to them.
I told him that would probly take longer than I am willing to wait, so he offered a 60% discount on another set.
I took it happily. So he said if the go out today (which he said he would try to do) they should be here Friday. So it looks like I have a busy few days coming removing head (YET AGAIN) getting the side motor mount on, and the bottom crossmember removed to pull the pan and push the pistons up.

 

[Spoolin4Ever]

Well maybe it has to do with the rebuild, not just a quality issue on the rings?

 

[eviltalon1]

It doesn't sound like the rings were at fault but a causality of the rebuild.

Danny

 

[gunna's dad]

Bostedquest can you answer a few questions before i throw my 2 cents in?
"Got motor rebuilt." Does this mean the block was bored and honed with new pistons installed?
"So I get a new head, rebuild it". Should this have read used head instead of new? What was done to rebuild it? Where the valves and seats ground and then check for concentricity? Valves guides checked for wear? Springs checked for correct installed height and proper tension @ installed height? Did the cams spin freely with their caps torqued? Requires cam followers removed.

As far as your cams goes if there is no blockage in the oil passages maybe the caps for the cams got mixed up. They are just like mains they have a specific place due to the final boring and honing process. They can not be intermixed between assemblies with out being line honed. I can't take a stab at rest untill I know what was done to the block and the head you replaced.

 

[Michael Z.]

Did you prime the motor the first time, before you ran it? It sounds like that motor ran for a while without any oil pressure.

 

[Bostedquest]

Bostedquest can you answer a few questions before i throw my 2 cents in?
"Got motor rebuilt." Does this mean the block was bored and honed with new pistons installed?
"So I get a new head, rebuild it". Should this have read used head instead of new? What was done to rebuild it? Where the valves and seats ground and then check for concentricity? Valves guides checked for wear? Springs checked for correct installed height and proper tension @ installed height? Did the cams spin freely with their caps torqued? Requires cam followers removed.

As far as your cams goes if there is no blockage in the oil passages maybe the caps for the cams got mixed up. They are just like mains they have a specific place due to the final boring and honing process. They can not be intermixed between assemblies with out being line honed. I can't take a stab at rest untill I know what was done to the block and the head you replaced.

OK, used head, not "new"
Spring seats ground, new valves, new springs, Guides checked and surfaced.
Cams spin freely without springs/what not installed.

The block was bored and honed to Weisco specs on the install/tech sheet.

Anyway, I got everything back togeather today with the new rings and redid compression check. 180/180/178/177
So that says in my mind something went wrong with the old rings.

And yes the oil pump was primed/spun at 2400 rpm's for at least 3 minutes each time the timing belt comes off actually.

I think I know what happened with the destruction of the old intake cam. The guy at the machine shop said he did not flush cleaner after doing work to it. So I think that something got where it was not supposed to be. I cured it on this on by flushing it myself.

I also checked over the main bearings and they were all good, so oil starvation is not a concern of mine.

Anyway, I am hoping to fire it back up tomarrow.

 

[gunna's dad]

Very good hope things work out. Looking to hear how it turned out. Compression looks great. Right 2 specs.

 

[92awddsm]

Ok... this is my hell for the past 2 months or so...

Got motor rebuilt.
after rebuild compression was 195 all four. Fired right up but with boost leaks so it was running kinda crapy. Anyway, appearantly a large air bubble was still in the block, and it started shooting steam out the open thermo cap, so I shut it down and filled it more.

2 weeks later after it refused to start, again I ran the compression test again... dire...
max of 115ish.
Great remove head, warped (.05-.08). Remove head and the intake cam was also destroyed somehow through oil starvation. I did get it to run once with the throttle full open.
Very low RPM's, so I am guessing that is what did the damage.

So I get a new head, rebuild it (though did not check for warpage I know... stupid me) and the numbers considerably improved. 1/2 155-160 3/4 120-130
So while this newer head may be slightly warped, I am also looking at maybe the rings burned up...
The HG is a Cometic 4 layer.

any other idea's?

First off, cometic doesnt make a 4 layer hg, they make a 3 layer gasket. One is the standard with 1 thick steel core and 2 thin outer layers and the other(hp) is 3 layer with a steel core with fire rings and 2 thin outer layers.

Second, if you assembled your own engine, you should have cleaned everything before assembly even if someone else cleaned it before hand. Never trust anyone else to do your job and never assemble an engine without a final cleaning. If you thought ahead, you would have at least blew air through every oil passage and then reinstalled all the oil galley plugs(if you even rmoved them).

Third, the engine wont get hot enough for the head to warp .050-.080" with the "thermo cap" off unless you just let it run for a while without monitoring it. And then, the coolant will just spew out of the thermostat housing which would have not happened if you were monitoring it.

It sounds like it was caused by negligence on your own end and not from wiseco. Go ahead and take the 60% because you probably wont get anything from them.

Im not trying to be a jackass but evidently, your assembly procedure was your own demise so just learn from it.