550s or 660s on a s16G

[LiquidGS-T]

I was just reading another thread about kicking yourself for getting to small of injectors, i'm only looking for mid 13s. And i JUST bought my 16g so i'm not takin it off anytime soon. I was gonna just go with 550s but would i be better off with 660s or would that make it run to rich?

I know i gotta get an AFC. But i get random urges to buy things for my car, so i need some good opinions here before i waste my money.

 

[GPTourer]

Buying injectors without some way to control them is not a good idea. The car won't run very well at all. I read too many posts about people with 550's wishing they'd gone bigger with even the smallest of turbo upgrades, so I went with 660's. Considering my goals and expectations with this car I know I'll never have to worry about them again.

But whatever you decide, an S-AFC (or some other form of fuel management) is a must, it be kinda like having your porch covered and screened but buying the screen later. Still functional, but not much fun during mosquito season.

 

[GSX_RCR]

I know i gotta get an AFC. But i get random urges to buy things for my car, so i need some good opinions here before i waste my money.

When in doubt, go for the bigger set. Only because you'll want to run more than 13's, trust me. Boost is addicting, and you'll be trying to go for the 12's once you realize how easy it was to hit 13's. :laugh:

 

[dsm]

yea go bigger, and get an afc soon, think ahead if not you'll kick yourself in the ass when u have to upgrade injectors because u decided the 16g wasnt enough, turst me i wouldve.

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

550s would be enough for a small 16g, what are your plans with your car? Are you going drag with a HUGE turbo that reaches full spool at 5800rpms or are you going autocross? Either way if you plan on keep the 16g then 550s will be enough, oh and if a 14b can run low 12s then a small 16g most certainly can. Not that your garaunteed to run those times........
Andrew

 

[VRMAN]

If you are going to stick with a s16G then 550cc injectors will be just fine, especially with 93 octane out there.

If you plan on going bigger later, or think one of your random urges might prompt a bigger turbo buy then get 660s.

 

[baby huie]

haha go 660 bro u know as soon as u run a 13 u will want the 12s. and then u gonna wanna upgrade again and u will be mad at your self for haveing to buy 2 sets of injectors. u can run the turbo with 660 any way so might as well go allthe way.

 

[kooka]

quit overkilling.

Ive seen people with my own two eyes running 20+ psi on a small 16g with stock injectors. zero problems, car ran perfect and fast.

remember like 7 years ago when 550's were more than enough for a 20g? i sure do. the latest trend in the past 1-2 years has been for people with small 16g's and t28's being reccomended 660's. how rediculous.

 

[turbolarry]

550's and you'll be fine. Scroll down to the injector chart;

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclfuel.htm

 

[burldude]

quit overkilling.

Ive seen people with my own two eyes running 20+ psi on a small 16g with stock injectors. zero problems, car ran perfect and fast.

remember like 7 years ago when 550's were more than enough for a 20g? i sure do. the latest trend in the past 1-2 years has been for people with small 16g's and t28's being reccomended 660's. how rediculous.

How much fuel pressure was that person running ? 20 psi and stock injectors ? He must have been running 75 psi of fuel and he better not run it wide open for very long . Not to mention he better be watching for knock and he must have had his base timing retarded-5 He must have been able to keep his intake temp way down . The whole intake tract woudl have to be insulated and kept chilled .

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

How much fuel pressure was that person running ? 20 psi and stock injectors ? He must have been running 75 psi of fuel and he better not run it wide open for very long . Not to mention he better be watching for knock and he must have had his base timing retarded-5 He must have been able to keep his intake temp way down . The whole intake tract woudl have to be insulated and kept chilled .

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclfuel.htm

go here type in 75 psi of fuel pressure...what size injectors does that equate to? Then calculate for a much more modest 54psi..what size injectors are those? Even with my fpr setting I am running enough fuel for 20psi, my intake temps stay at about 80-85, my peak timing is low at 13degrees advance but thats cause I have a boost leak. So with peak timing at 13btdc(with boost leak), o2s at .94v-.98v, intake temps of 80-85, flowing 32.xxlbs/min...tell me why this isnt possible? I do it and without the leak Ill be running higher peak timing... Please exlain to me why my car can do this since you dont think its possible? thanks
Andrew

 

[burldude]

Hmm I went to the sight and I see that they recomend 550cc for anything higher than 16psi? I also looked at your profile and I dont see any data logger info ? I guess not everyone will put that in there profile. You are also running half the timing you would see with a typical 20 psi tune . Hey I understand money doesnt leap into are hands like we would wish somtimes. Sounds like you are doing okay with your setup . But I would deffinetly be trying to come up with the money for a logger to check for knock if I where you . Since you know what your timing is and you have other parameters also mentioned ,maybe you do have a datalogger ? I also notice your intake temps are nice and cold . I guess when I start my car up in the morning I could turn the boost and fuel pressure up . I am all with using as little gas as possible since the price continues to climb but there is only so much that can be extracted from the combustion engine . Just for my own sake you say your boost leak is retarding your timing ?

 

[awdsm drft]

So tired of these injector debates. A 16g will max out 550's at around 17-18lbs of boost. If you want more, get bigger injectors....so to answer your question get bigger injectors.

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

Hmm I went to the sight and I see that they recomend 550cc for anything higher than 16psi? I also looked at your profile and I dont see any data logger info ? I guess not everyone will put that in there profile. You are also running half the timing you would see with a typical 20 psi tune . Hey I understand money doesnt leap into are hands like we would wish somtimes. Sounds like you are doing okay with your setup . But I would deffinetly be trying to come up with the money for a logger to check for knock if I where you . Since you know what your timing is and you have other parameters also mentioned ,maybe you do have a datalogger ? I also notice your intake temps are nice and cold . I guess when I start my car up in the morning I could turn the boost and fuel pressure up . I am all with using as little gas as possible since the price continues to climb but there is only so much that can be extracted from the combustion engine . Just for my own sake you say your boost leak is retarding your timing ?

Yes the leak is causing my timing to get pulled, Yes I have a logger(no it isnt a performance upgrade as it didnt add power AT ALL. The only reason I sometimes hit 20psi is because it randomly creeps to 20psi. What I was stating that with 52-54psi or fuel pressure, on the stock ic, with a boost leak I can still maintain double digit ignition timing and o2 that are pretty good. The reason my intake temps are so good is because I have a filterblockoff decent airflow around and through the ic and I removed the coolant lines to the throttle bodie. Granted on a hot day my temps rise a bit but, still decent for a turbo car.
Andrew

 

[gsx91boy]

How much fuel pressure was that person running ? 20 psi and stock injectors ? He must have been running 75 psi of fuel and he better not run it wide open for very long . Not to mention he better be watching for knock and he must have had his base timing retarded-5 He must have been able to keep his intake temp way down . The whole intake tract woudl have to be insulated and kept chilled .

Clearly you've never tried and have no idea what you're talking about. Yes 20psi on a 16g can be run on 450s. Yes you will be maxing them. Yes you will be running lean. No you do not have to retard base timing at all. Yes this can be done on a SMIC.

Two words: RACE GAS

-aaron

 

[burldude]

Clearly you've never tried and have no idea what you're talking about. Yes 20psi on a 16g can be run on 450s. Yes you will be maxing them. Yes you will be running lean. No you do not have to retard base timing at all. Yes this can be done on a SMIC.

Two words: RACE GAS

-aaron

Huh :thumbdown At least you say it how it is . You can run them but better be ready to change your headgasket I seen you have been working on your car alot in your profile .

I am not going to waste my time anymore . I see why you guys that have been here a while tend to keep your comments to those that are serious about learning and tuning. It is to easy to get sucked into a bash contest. To bad use the search engine quote cant be used.

 

[gsx91boy]

Huh :thumbdown At least you say it how it is . You can run them but better be ready to change your headgasket I seen you have been working on your car alot in your profile.

You don't need to change a headgasket. If you had a front mount and all that stuff you more then likely have upgraded injectors too. If you're just pushing a 16g on smic and 450s and only shooting for ~110mph traps you will be just fine. I sold my dsm, because ####ers like you make me not want to own the car, but I had owned a dsm for many years and seen/tuned many setups.

-aaron

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

I told you what my logs were with creeping boost and proved that you wont have base or less timing and can still run rich doing it.

rpm/02/timing/airflow
6268/.98v/13degrees/ 32.80lbs/min

This is my logg at which I hit fuel cut from creep, ambient temps outside 89degrees 55% humidity(is was much hotter earlier today). As you can see on 93 octane pump gas I can ALOMST max (around 70%)the 16g with decent timing, stock ic, boost/vacuum leak, I hit decent rpms and my o2s are telling me Im running pretty rich. So with the leak fixed safc I could tune for 20psi(on the edge of pump gas limits) with MUCH better peak timing and much more power while being safe in the process. Do you understand what I am saying now?
Andrew

 

[ReD_AwD_TsI 369]

You'll do fine with the 625's on a s16g