1G Timing belt question

[er82]

I keep noticing that after shutting engine off, sometimes it stops in a way that timing belt is loose and feels like I could pull it off the exhaust cam gear. However, when I rotate engine by hand its tight all the way around. Sometimes I can get the grenade pin all the way through, other times the tensioner is a bit compressed, so it seems tight. Is it normal? It has stock cams and cam gears, oem belt, new tensioner and pulleys.

Also I have base timing at 5* on the pulley, but when I point the light on cam gears the marks are off by a tooth. But all timing marks are on point. Is that normal?

 

[jakk220]

As far as the timing belt being more loose in certain positions than others, yes, that is normal. To an extent.

Could you take pictures of the timing marks and upload them so that we can make sure that they are right for you?

 

[er82]

Here are the timing marks. It has balance shaft deleted.

 

[93AWDDSM]

First I got to give you props for the photos, pretty good clear vision of the timing marks while engine is in the car. Is the tensioner leaking from anywhere we can’t see in the picture?

 

[jakk220]

Honestly everything looks really good to me. Again, depending on the orientation, the slack in between the cams can be normal. so long as the belt is not walking or wobbling while the engine is running and the tensioner is set properly, which it appears to be.

 

[er82]

First I got to give you props for the photos, pretty good clear vision of the timing marks while engine is in the car. Is the tensioner leaking from anywhere we can’t see in the picture?

Thanks. It's about the fourth time I'm checking the timing belt through the progression of getting this gvr4 running. So, I already knew all that needs to be removed. Plus I have ps, abs, ac, and cruise delete to give it some space. The tensioner is new and not leaking. However, there was oil on the bottom inside of lower timing cover. Not sure where that could be coming from as everything looks more or less clean.

Honestly everything looks really good to me. Again, depending on the orientation, the slack in between the cams can be normal. so long as the belt is not walking or wobbling while the engine is running and the tensioner is set properly, which it appears to be.

Thanks. I had taken the car out for a spin and it hesitated at about 4k rpm and engine had changed how it sounded immediately and idle surges. So the first thing I thought I should check is the timing belt. But all ok there it seems. So it must be iac or something else.

 

[jakk220]

Yeah its probably something simple. Just let us know if you need any help diagnosing the issue if you can not figure it out.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Mine had me worried to and I tore it down in front. Everything was fine. Here is the link to a video.

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It is just the way the motor stops that makes you worry, as I was.
I think if yours is like that its just because the valves are holding the cams in that spot.

 

[pauleyman]

Why is the pin still in the tensioner? If the pin length is correct you're done. And as far as checking if ignition timing with the cam marks you need a dial back to zero light to do that. Is that what you're using?

 

[er82]

Why is the pin still in the tensioner? If the pin length is correct you're done. And as far as checking if ignition timing with the cam marks you need a dial back to zero light to do that. Is that what you're using?

The pin was in the tensioner to showcase that its not loose.

For the timing, I have the HF advance timing light. I set the dial to zero. On the pulley it shows 5*. Somewhere I read that if the pulley is separating it could move the timing mark. So, that's why I was wondering if the cam timing marks should be aligned as well. If yes, then the pulley would be bad.
There was a how-to thread about setting timing with cam gears, but the video links no longer work.

 

[pauleyman]

You dont set it to zero. Thats not how it works. The idea of a dial back ligh is you set the dial for what you want and when the car is adjusted properly it points to zero as that is usually the easiest mark to read. When the light flashes on tdc "zero" then it should also flash on the cam gear marks lined up as that happens at tdc.

 

[chrysler kid]

Different cars have different tension. When tension is set to grenade pin depth resting rotating tension from the exhaust gear can pull the intake gear over with it and cause the slack

It's random, sometimes it's very slight sometimes its alot

 

[steve]

Also I have base timing at 5* on the pulley, but when I point the light on cam gears the marks are off by a tooth. But all timing marks are on point. Is that normal?

I assume the ECU is locked in check timing mode or it would be bouncing around. When it is locked in the ECU fires the plug @ 5* BTDC and since it's not TDC the cam marks aren't going to be lined up. With an adjustable timing light your creating an offset from when the ECU fires the plug to when the light flashes. When it's set to 0 is works like an non-adjustable light and any other setting either advances or retards the light with regards to the ECU event so you can measure the timing while using the TDC mark.

 

[jim95redgsx]

Adjustable timing lights are NOT accurate when used with the waste spark ignition system on DSM's. An adjustable timing light must be set to "zero" when setting the timing and the 5 degree mark on the balancer is used.
The waste spark ignition system cuts the time between firing events in half. This alters the timing of an adjustable timing light. It cuts the advance setting in half also. In other words, if you set the timing light adjustment to 10 degrees, the actual advance will only be 5 degrees.

Jim

 

[pauleyman]

Adjustable timing lights are NOT accurate when used with the waste spark ignition system on DSM's. An adjustable timing light must be set to "zero" when setting the timing and the 5 degree mark on the balancer is used.
The waste spark ignition system cuts the time between firing events in half. This alters the timing of an adjustable timing light. It cuts the advance setting in half also. In other words, if you set the timing light adjustment to 10 degrees, the actual advance will only be 5 degrees.

Jim

I forgot about this. Absolutely correct

 

[chrysler kid]

I forgot about this. Absolutely correct

The OP doesn't have adjustable cam gears, I believe he is asking at 0 why would the balancer show 5 degrees advanced

 

[er82]

Based on the comments, I think I may have set the ignition timing incorrectly. I will double check and adjust it soon.

 

[pauleyman]

The OP doesn't have adjustable cam gears, I believe he is asking at 0 why would the balancer show 5 degrees advanced

That wasn't how I read it. If the timing light is set to zero the harmonic balancer should show 5 degrees btdc. However the cam gear marks would not show lined up. Even if you dial the light back that still won't work because dsm uses a waste spark ignition. Op wasn't talking about adjustable cam gears but an adjustable timing light.