Charging system issue

[PxIxSxTxOxL]

The problem started when my radio, windows, ect. would not get power until I revved the engine. Later that same day I got in the car and the battery was dead. I got a jump and on the way home the car died on the road at cruising speed. I pulled over and had a buddy try and jump the car again. The car runs fine when the jumper cables are hooked up but when removed the car only runs for about 30 seconds. I dont have a voltmeter to test the alternator and I was wondering if it could possibly be something besides the alternator before I go out and buy a new one. I heard that the alternator can power the car alone while idling but when I remove the negative battery cable it dies instantly. The fuse for the alternator is fine.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

It's likely both the battery and alternator are toast.

Do you not have a kragen/advance/orielys/autzone near by? They do free charge system testing.

 

[PxIxSxTxOxL]

I do but I had to have the car towed home and I'm not sure if I can take it out to bring it there.

 

[steve]

Sounds like you need a battery charges and a voltmeter. Better cut a few more lawns.

The alternator fuse could be blown but you'll need the voltmeter or test light to check it.

 

[Anubis_4_99]

I do but I had to have the car towed home and I'm not sure if I can take it out to bring it there.

Yes you can take both your alternator and battery out to have them tested.

If i were you i would do so, sounds like a pretty common alternator failure, and running it like that you've possibly toasted your battery or it could have been partly gone already.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

When I'm in a jam like this with any vehicle, it's not uncommon for me to get a jump to Kragen and then have them do the tests. They can get the car started again for you. They just grab a large battery and jump you to do the tests and then again to get you on your way if you wish. It's just a nice place to be when you are pinpointing the problem. I don't mind their line of batteries.

I also second the lawn mowing to get yourself a voltmeter. The batt. charger is pretty awesome to have too.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

The alternator fuse could be blown but you'll need the voltmeter or test light to check it.

The ALT fuse was my first thought. It's the black 80 amp fuse bolted in the front corner of the passenger side fuse box. I would check that first because it's the easiest to get to and the cheapest to replace. It's also a good idea to get your alternator and battery tested as well.

 

[steve]

For those that don't know how to test the alternator fuse with a 12v light bulb or voltmeter you need to connect the positive side to the B+ stud on the back of the alternator and the negative to a ground while the key is off. If the fuse is good you'll see the bulb light or read battery voltage on the meter.

The alternator fuse is in series with the wire from the alternator to the battery and is bolted into the fuse block. When it blows it disconnects the alternator from the battery.

 

[PxIxSxTxOxL]

I did check the fuse visually I thought it would be easy to see if it was blown or not. It looks the same as every other fuse in the box, should I still test it? Better a fuse than an whole alternator.

 

[mrfister11]

yes i have seen many fuses where they "look" good, even no burned spots or breakage and they are bad. better to be 100% sure than 90%

 

[tonyseagle]

Did your break and battery light come on before all this happened? I was out cruising one day and they came on. I thought to myself...I'm pretty sure that means the alternator is dead. I turned around and noticed that all my lights were dimming. The OSHT factor kicked in and literally when I was pulling back into my parking space...the car died.

Oh another thing, I had my buddy come out and help me jump the car. It started right up. It ran by itself for about 5 minutes before dieing again. That's when I decided it was the alternator.

Replaced the alternator and it runs like a champ now.

 

[steve]

Yes you should always test them. Ones that look blown most likely are but that doesn't mean ones that look good likely are.

Pull them and measure the resistance, checking for voltage on both sides won't always find blown ones if the designer has done something tricky with the circuit.

 

[PxIxSxTxOxL]

So I really screwed up and replaced the fuse and the alternator and the car is acting the same. does anybody have any other ideas? The battery is toast now could that make the car completely die while its running?

 

[tenn-gsx]

Im not sure if this applies to the 1g cars but I do know that the 95 and 96 atleast have a stupid alternator realy on the passenger subframe. Do the 1g cars have this as well? If so that could be your issue.

 

[liljaywizzle85]

Check the wiring dealing with your charging system. Check all your grounds good.

 

[steve]

There isn't much to the 1G charging system.

First stop is reading the troubleshooting section on the charging system in the electrical section of the FSM.

There are three wires for the alternator. The main B+ cable(s) to the alternator stud, the Black/White wire to the L terminal on the connector, and the Yellow wire to the S terminal on the connector. The L terminal connects to the field coil to power it initially and the S terminal is used to sense the voltage of the electrical system.

There are two paths connected to the L terminal from the ignition switch, one through fuse 11 and the charge light in the cluster and the second through a resistor and diode they call the "alternator relay".

OPERATION

When engine is stopped
When the ignition switch is switched to the “ON” position, electricity flows from the “L” terminal of the alternator to the field coil, and at the same time the charging warning light illuminates.

When engine is being started/has started
When the engine is started, charging voltage is applied internally to the “L” terminal of the alternator, with the result that the charging warning light is extinguished since there is no longer any current flowing through the bulb. In addition, because battery voltage is applied to the “S” terminal of the alternator, this battery voltage is monitored at the IC voltage regulator, switching ON and OFF the current to the field coil and thereby controlling the amount of generation by the alternator.

Power is supplied to each load from the “B+” terminal of the alternator.

NOTE
The alternator relay functions as a back-up for the flow of electricity to the field coil if there is a disconnection or damaged wiring of the charging warning light.

TROUBLESHOOTING HINTS
1. Charging indicator light does not go on when the ignition switch is turned to “ON”, before the engine starts.
Check the bulb.
Check Fuse 11.
2. Charging indicator light fails to go off once the engine starts.
Check the IC voltage regulator (located within the alternator).
3. Discharged or overcharged battery.
Check the IC voltage regulator (located within the alternator).
4. The charging warning light illuminates dimly.
Check the diodes (within the combination meter and alternator relay) for a short-circuit.

Checking each of the wires for opens, shorts, and other damage goes without saying on a 20 year old car since the wires are located in a high heat area and subject to vibration.


The ECU has no connection to the charging system on a 1G.
The Brake, Radiator, AT Temp (on an auto), and Charge lights all have diodes connecting them to the alternator L terminal. This is for the Bulb Test when you turn the ignition on but they can light if the alternator is not charging.

If the battery is low/dead you won't have enough voltage at the L terminal to energize the field coil to bootstrap the alternator. If the alternator fuse is blown you won't see changing voltage at the battery and if the battery is low could cause the alternator voltage to spike. Same is true if the S wire is damaged.

 

[Palmetto_TSi]

There isn't much to the 1G charging system.

First stop is reading the troubleshooting section on the charging system in the electrical section of the FSM.

There are three wires for the alternator. The main B+ cable(s) to the alternator stud, the Black/White wire to the L terminal on the connector, and the Yellow wire to the S terminal on the connector. The L terminal connects to the field coil to power it initially and the S terminal is used to sense the voltage of the electrical system.

There are two paths connected to the L terminal from the ignition switch, one through fuse 11 and the charge light in the cluster and the second through a resistor and diode they call the "alternator relay".

OPERATION

When engine is stopped
When the ignition switch is switched to the “ON” position, electricity flows from the “L” terminal of the alternator to the field coil, and at the same time the charging warning light illuminates.

When engine is being started/has started
When the engine is started, charging voltage is applied internally to the “L” terminal of the alternator, with the result that the charging warning light is extinguished since there is no longer any current flowing through the bulb. In addition, because battery voltage is applied to the “S” terminal of the alternator, this battery voltage is monitored at the IC voltage regulator, switching ON and OFF the current to the field coil and thereby controlling the amount of generation by the alternator.

Power is supplied to each load from the “B+” terminal of the alternator.

NOTE
The alternator relay functions as a back-up for the flow of electricity to the field coil if there is a disconnection or damaged wiring of the charging warning light.

TROUBLESHOOTING HINTS
1. Charging indicator light does not go on when the ignition switch is turned to “ON”, before the engine starts.
Check the bulb.
Check Fuse 11.
2. Charging indicator light fails to go off once the engine starts.
Check the IC voltage regulator (located within the alternator).
3. Discharged or overcharged battery.
Check the IC voltage regulator (located within the alternator).
4. The charging warning light illuminates dimly.
Check the diodes (within the combination meter and alternator relay) for a short-circuit.

Checking each of the wires for opens, shorts, and other damage goes without saying on a 20 year old car since the wires are located in a high heat area and subject to vibration.


The ECU has no connection to the charging system on a 1G.
The Brake, Radiator, AT Temp (on an auto), and Charge lights all have diodes connecting them to the alternator L terminal. This is for the Bulb Test when you turn the ignition on but they can light if the alternator is not charging.

If the battery is low/dead you won't have enough voltage at the L terminal to energize the field coil to bootstrap the alternator. If the alternator fuse is blown you won't see changing voltage at the battery and if the battery is low could cause the alternator voltage to spike. Same is true if the S wire is damaged.

OP,
Is the battery shot or just need a charge? The alternator going out could have burned the battery up. Sounds like the battery is the reason for what is going on now. As you can see above, if the battery is completely dead it will not be able to give the initial voltage to the exciter coil. Try putting the battery on charge if you haven't tried already.

 

[scrubbin116]

Just take it to Autozone. Get it checked there. You most likely will have to replace the battery and for sure the alternator.

 

[PxIxSxTxOxL]

The altornator is new and a new battery may be on the way i just dont want to burn through a new battery. And thanks so much steve that was very informative and I'm bustin out the manual to check some things before I go and replace everything!