bigger injectors

[smokeyjpn221]

aight so i want to get bigger injectors for my 1g eclipse. i'm lookin at some 650's or maybe even some 1000's. what i need to know is do i have to calibrate my MAF? and is there anything else i have to do other than a tune?

 

[viperlp01]

650s will be easy to tune with a maf translator. You cant just calibrate our mafs. You will have to run some type of fuel management and i would also suggest upgrading the fuel pump... I am running 680s and tuning with a maft. I have a walbro 190 fuel pump

 

[smokeyjpn221]

where'd you get your translator? are they difficuilt to install? and where'd you get your pump too

 

[No_Skillz]

650s are very different from 1000s. What are your goals?

 

[smokeyjpn221]

650s are very different from 1000s. What are your goals?

when you say goals are you talking about horsepower? if so i'd like to be puttin out about 350 at the wheels if possible.

 

[woowoopdoo]

550cc's and a 2g maf are a pretty good combination. But like Mike said. You have to keep in mind your ultimate goals. It plays a big role.

 

[keltalon]

650s are very different from 1000s. What are your goals?

My question exactly. performance is a balancing act!

 

[No_Skillz]

350hp is a bit of a stretch with 650s. However, the injectors themselves can be tuned with an AFC (I am unfamiliar with GM MAFs so anyone with more info, please feel free to chime in). Anything bigger and you will need a better tuning system.

If you decide to go with 1000cc injectors, it will allow you alot of room to upgrade in the future. They need to be managed with something more advanced than an AFC, such as DSMLink, or a standalone. Although these systems are more expensive, they are offer MUCH more capability.

 

[toofast82]

As long as you have the proper tuning and injector compensation, you can run the 1000cc with the same idle,fuel mileage,etc as the 650s but with more fuel still available for more power. Devices like safc,maft,etc should not be used with larger than 650cc(some may argue) because they hide airflow from ecu in turn increasing timing sometimes too much. An eprom chip,dsmap,dsmlink, are examples of devices that will fully be able to compensate for the larger injectors. But 650cc, will have no problem handling 350whp

 

[-TunedDSM-]

Pull out your ecu and check to see if it is an EPROM. If so, you can easily get a keydiver chip to compensate for the larger injectors. You could also upgrade to DSMLink which as mentioned is more expensive but much more capable. The guys at DSMLink can also convert your non eprom 1g ecu to eprom for a fair price.

 

[woowoopdoo]

True. I suggest dsmlink. Not just because I have it but because it is a great way of doing everything. Tuning, logging, and management. Also for 350whp, i would use 750's just to be safe. Again, dsmlink can handle tuning with those very easily if you know what you're doing

 

[toofast82]

you can write your own eproms for very cheap with full timing/fuel control, etc

 

[lowexpectations]

Not to flame anyone but to the guys that are saying the 650's would be getting pushed, do you have any experience with them? The only reason I ask is I have made in the 330's on 550's, a afc-II and stock maf. I would think 650's would not have any problems supporting 350 awhp.

 

[toofast82]

But 650cc, will have no problem handling 350whp

Thats how i feel, but i would get a good tuning device and put some 1000cc in there. It will give room to grow as well as e85 capability

 

[smokeyjpn221]

Not to flame anyone but to the guys that are saying the 650's would be getting pushed, do you have any experience with them? The only reason I ask is I have made in the 330's on 550's, a afc-II and stock maf. I would think 650's would not have any problems supporting 350 awhp.

so do you not have a maft? do i not need one? and is there anyone that has actually done this? i would like to know for sure what i need and what works instead of going on what someone says will work. better to be safe than sorry

 

[woowoopdoo]

I'm on 660's right now making 285awhp. I'm still tuning. My idc is 77% so there is still more room. When I first started using link I wasn't making much power. But tuning is everything with dsm's. I agree with toofast, I wish a had bigger that way I could run e-85.

The 1g maf is a huge restriction though. I'm sure good power can be made with it but you'll want to look into a 2g or a gm maf. Ecm tuning now offers native cables to repace the translator which is great and does not cost as much as a translator. Also maybe a coil-on-plug set-up maybe

 

[-TunedDSM-]

Do not bother with a COP for 350whp, that's overkill. The stock ignition system will be fine with some good plugs and wires.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Don't waste you're money on a coil-on-plug setup. It won't help you and you'll run into a lot of problems. Stock ignition and with wires is go with at least 650hp. Salvage your $500-$750 and use it more productively.

 

[lowexpectations]

so do you not have a maft? do i not need one? and is there anyone that has actually done this? i would like to know for sure what i need and what works instead of going on what someone says will work. better to be safe than sorry

You need to figure out your goals. When I made the power I was talking about it was the most my stock 1g maf would allow. I ran into fuel cut on the dyno that day. I later switched to a 3" gm maf and a maft to allow me to go over those goals for future. You only need a maft if you are running a gm maf. The maft does two things. It converts the signal coming from the gm maf into a signal our cars ecu will understand. The other thing a maft does is it does give you some tuning ability.

Example for me is I am using my maft with all the settings on 0 (it is not doing any fuel adjustments). All I am using it for is to convert the signal.

From what you have mentioned so far I would stay with the stock 1g maf untill you reach its limits and then go with something different.

 

[smokeyjpn221]

You need to figure out your goals. When I made the power I was talking about it was the most my stock 1g maf would allow. I ran into fuel cut on the dyno that day. I later switched to a 3" gm maf and a maft to allow me to go over those goals for future. You only need a maft if you are running a gm maf. The maft does two things. It converts the signal coming from the gm maf into a signal our cars ecu will understand. The other thing a maft does is it does give you some tuning ability.

Example for me is I am using my maft with all the settings on 0 (it is not doing any fuel adjustments). All I am using it for is to convert the signal.

From what you have mentioned so far I would stay with the stock 1g maf untill you reach its limits and then go with something different.

ok...thanks for the help

 

[toofast82]

If you plan on getting a MAFT, get the GEn2. It has many features such as wideband target a/f, you can run 1g,2g, or gm mafs. 1/2% fuel contol up to 60%. Its like an safc, but much better and roughly same price. It really wont be good above 650cc though as it hides airflow like safc. It is not the tuning device i use but for the money i think it may be a good buy

 

[Dsmj89]

If your goal consists of making 300's then 650cc's should be just fine, i would say get 750cc's just to have that extra room for improvement. Just keep in mind that if you get an safc these will not be able to keep up with injectors bigger than 680cc's, anything after that will require a different management system such as a dsmlink to work with that size of an injector.

 

[toofast82]

You could look into Ds-Map as well.
I burn my own eproms and it was only $50 for socketing, $90 for the burner and chips and Tunerpro(free)
You could get the Moates Ostrich($175), socketing, and laptop for real time editing like Dsmlink.

 

[smokeyjpn221]

so let me see if i got this straight...if i'm wantin to be in the 300's 650cc's will be fine but i should get 750cc's for extra room for improvement. and i'm also gonns need a dsmlink or something to that effect. is that all?

 

[toofast82]

so let me see if i got this straight...if i'm wantin to be in the 300's 650cc's will be fine but i should get 750cc's for extra room for improvement. and i'm also gonns need a dsmlink or something to that effect. is that all?

With injectors up to 650cc, an SAFC or MAFT will have no problem handling this. These devices compensate by "hiding airflow" from the ecu. This puts things in a lower load map on the ecu with higher timing. Too high and it becomes dangerous which is usually above 650cc. These devices can be used successfully with larger injectors(750-1000cc) with the use of an eprom chip that fully compensates for the injectors and then you use the safc/maft for small adjustments.
DsmLink/Ds-Map will have the ability to control large injectors without a problem and have full timing/fuel contorl.
I suggest you spend quite a bit more time reading about your options for tuning before you jump into something. Also think about what your future goals will be down the line when factoring the decision