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AWD Conversion/Swap Guys Enter Here - Advanced. [Merged 2-07]

Posted by ballen1, Nov 9, 2005

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  1. ballen1

    ballen1 Proven Member

    14
    1
    Joined Sep 11, 2003
    ,
    This thread is reserved for the people that are in the process of performing the conversion and the people that have already done the conversion. This thread is to be used to discuss actual points of the processs, not "is it possible?" or "what's generally involved?". For basic AWD swap questions and info, see this thread. For any question that is more "involved", use this thread here.

    Thanks, 99gst_racer

    __________________________________________________________________________

    I just wanted to share some pics of my conversion from fwd to awd. i'll never go back to fwd again, the time and money spent was well worth it!!, and the option of me selling my car for an awd car was totally out of the question. In my opinion the hardest part was fabricating the mouts to hold the driveshaft to the chasis. Also my car needs an alignment after the completion, and i still havnt got my fuel guage working correctly. If anyone who has done the conversion could help me out i would appreciate it. I need to know exactly what color wires goes where.

    parts neede:

    1. awd tranny w/flywheel, (i had 6 bolt conversion so i need a 6 bolt flywheel)
    2. awd front axles ( i had 6 bolt conversion so i used a 1gen driver side awd axle, IT FITS!! same length and splines matched up. hmmmm...
    3. awd transfer case
    4. driveshaft
    5. complete rear assembly
    6. awd gas tank, tank shield, and tank straps that mouts it to the car.
    7. gas tank connectors (pig tails) for the sending unit and fuel pump
    8. awd exhaust, i fabed my own 3"

    it took 3 weeks to complete, most of the time was spent looking for small parts that were need but over looked. like the 8 rubber bushings 4 on top and 4 on bottom that mouts between the car chasis and the rear subframe . i couldnt find any so i machined some replacements out of stainless steel fits perfectly, see pic 5. also spent time hunting down the pig tails for the tank sending units and fuel pump.

    it cost me $1400 for the parts, then i ordered my front axles from raxles!! marty is a pro, he knew exactly what i need, when autozone and car quest failed he came through. i had no problem finding the drivers side awd front axle from autozone, but they couldnt get me the correct passenger side. i lost 1 week waiting for wrong size axles!!

    lots of drilling, cutting of sheet metal, and some welding.


    pic 1. all the parts from the awd car
    pic 2. the complete rear subframe, u can use the fwd calipers, rotors, e-brake cables, and the fwd rear springs! the fwd struts were little shorter than the awd, i used the awd.
    pic 3. the fwd complete subframe removed
    pic 4. awd gas tank installed
    pic 5. complete rear subframe awd installed.

    thanks
    billy
     

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  2. 98EclipseGST06

    98EclipseGST06 Proven Member

    50
    0
    Joined Jul 12, 2006
    USA, Illinois
    Alright I'm pretty sure im in the right forum I couldn't to much on awd conversion with the keyword finder so hopefully someone can help me here. My buddy unfortunately crashed his 95 GSX, goin 75 and hit a curb sideways. Body twisted subframe in the rear twisted. Bad story, but his drive-shaft is still 100% and I was wondering what other parts would I need to turn my 98 GST into AWD??? I know I need a trans but will his 95 trans fit or should I go with a new one. And I know my rear floor is different too, what would I need to do for that problem?? Any info would help guys!

    Thanks,
    Bryan
     
  3. blackbyrd

    blackbyrd Proven Member

    687
    20
    Joined Jul 9, 2006
    Columbus, Ohio
    You will at least need the following
    "
    -entire rear subframe from an awd 2g
    -awd tranny
    -transfer case
    -all four axles
    -rear suspension set up
    -2g awd gas tank
    -drive shaft
    -all four axles
    -2g awd exhaust
    -2g awd exhaust hangers, they will need to be welded to the bottom of the car
    -2g awd rear subframe bolts that hold the subframe to the unibody.(the fwd ones are shorter. You will need to cut a square out of the sheetmetal in the hatch area above each bolt in order to get the fwd ones out and the awd ones in.
    "

    another source:
    #


    Required AWD Parts
    # Transmission
    # Transfer case
    # Front axles
    # Drive shaft
    # Exhaust
    # Fuel tank and shield
    # Rear subframe
    # Rear axles
    # Rear differential
    # Swaybar
    # Rear knuckles
    # E-brake cables
    # AWD Flywheel

    Recommended AWD Parts (In addition to the above)
    # AWD fuel tank connectors
    # AWD subframe rear bolts
    # AWD drive shaft and exhaust brackets (spot welded in the tunnel)
    # Entire AWD rear suspension assembly (all control arms)


    here's some good threads covering this:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217016&highlight=awd+conversion
    http://wwww.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210825&highlight=awd+conversion

    another good how-to:
    http://www.automotivearticles.com/AWD_Conversion.shtml

    Good Luck!
     
  4. 92awddsm

    92awddsm DSM Wiseman

    3,934
    79
    Joined Jan 17, 2004
    Chesterfield, Virginia
    To add to this, the fuel tank support tabs are different between the awd and fwd also. The mounts need to be removed from the awd and welded to the fwd to remount the awd fuel tank. I know this off of the top of my head because I am currently doing a 6 bolt awd swap on a 97 gst spider.
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    12.320 @ 115.440 MPH
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  5. 98EclipseGST06

    98EclipseGST06 Proven Member

    50
    0
    Joined Jul 12, 2006
    USA, Illinois
    Thanks for the info so far guys its been a great help. Its going to be a big project I can tell already but I'm willing to do it for the times in the 1/4. Also what would I need to put in the awd trans from the fwd???

    Thanks,
    Bryan
     
  6. 92awddsm

    92awddsm DSM Wiseman

    3,934
    79
    Joined Jan 17, 2004
    Chesterfield, Virginia
    Once you get into it, you will realize that it isnt that big of job. My roll cage fab and install was harder than what I have found the awd swap to be.
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    12.320 @ 115.440 MPH
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  7. 98EclipseGST06

    98EclipseGST06 Proven Member

    50
    0
    Joined Jul 12, 2006
    USA, Illinois
    I hope so, but I still have questions on the tranny. Will I need anything else to install an AWD tranny to my FWD??
     
  8. 92awddsm

    92awddsm DSM Wiseman

    3,934
    79
    Joined Jan 17, 2004
    Chesterfield, Virginia
    Clutch is the same(90-99 turbo is all the same). Flywheel and transmission backing plate is different. I am still unsure of the starter.
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    12.320 @ 115.440 MPH
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  9. Omega

    Omega Proven Member

    1,275
    9
    Joined Oct 10, 2002
    Randolph, New Jersey
    This is just a questions for those that have done the conversion. Those that don't know what parts are required, need to SEARCH.


    The new set of bolts that you take from the donor car and put in the unused holes... The AWD car has a spacer that has reinforcements that are welded into the frame. Are you gus just dropping the bolt though and calling it a day?

    My second question is the tank. If you bolt the tabs straight to the body the tank is angled to the pump (not exactly a bad thing). Is anyone making it level?

    At the moment i'm only putting in the tank and the subframe. The rest of the parts will be installed in the spring after the trans is rebuilt.
     
  10. 99redgst

    99redgst Proven Member

    284
    33
    Joined Jan 25, 2003
    Stevens Point, Wisconsin
    Are the bolts your refering to for the subframe? Front or rear? I used the oem bolts for the rear, just cut open the bolt holder, remove the old bolt and insert the bolt from the AWD car. Then bend the the holder back over the bolt. For the front bolts on the subframe I just went to the hardware store and picked up some grade 10 bolts and fender washers. Are you trying to use the oem bolt in the front as well?
    As far as the gas tank goes, I'm not sure I follow what your saying. I just inserted bolts in the proper holes and bolted on the straps just as they were on the AWD car. Straps are flush against the bottom of the tank, tank appeared to be level to me. Not sure how much this has helped? I have completed the swap so I should be able to help you with anything you need. Just try to be as descriptive as possible or better yet some pics. I can post some pics of anything you want, just let me know.
     
    My DSM:
    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Autocross Build

    16g   manual
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  11. Omega

    Omega Proven Member

    1,275
    9
    Joined Oct 10, 2002
    Randolph, New Jersey
    I am specifically talking about the front bolts. There is no spacer and reinforcement there. I was thinking about welding the whole thing in from the AWD car, but that is a LOT of work and i'm already behind. I want a solid mounting point and without some reinforcement I am affraid the subframe will move around when I beat on the car.

    As for the fuel tank. I have it up and pretty much bolted down and it seems fairly level. Were you able to move the tank around when you were done? I know it just sits in the pan, but it seems to have snugged its' self in if you will.

    Next up is the wiring. Just need to sit in there and solder it all up.

    Did you find that your FWD tank was a whole lot more complicated? Check out this link: http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166985

    Thanks for your input.
     
  12. Strm Trpr

    Strm Trpr Proven Member

    1,532
    53
    Joined Jan 20, 2004
    Lodi, California
    My DSM:
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  13. 99redgst

    99redgst Proven Member

    284
    33
    Joined Jan 25, 2003
    Stevens Point, Wisconsin
    I wouldn't waste your time trying to install the spacer for the front bolt. Its main purpose is to hold the bolt to keep it from turning. I would just go to the hardware store and pick up some new bolts(shorter than the oem of course, since the spacer is gone). The only issue that may arise is the bolt turning when you try to tighten it. I don't know of anyone that has istalled the spacer and have never heard of anyone having a problem using a new bolt with a washer on it.

    As for the gas tank. No, I wasn't able to move mine after tightening it. It is extremely solid with no movement. When you refer to the "pan" I assume your talking about the metal under shield? Did you install the straps with them still bolted to the shield? That may be part of the issue if you did, maybe the straps aren't in the grooves on the bottom of the gas tank? Are you installing the gas tank before the subfame? Because that is easier than vice versa. This is the only pic I have of my tank installed.
     

    Attached Files:

    My DSM:
    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Autocross Build

    16g   manual
    Loading...
  14. Spool'n Spyder

    Spool'n Spyder Proven Member

    95
    1
    Joined Feb 2, 2005
    West Monroe, Louisiana
    Yeah, just go to a hardware store and pic up some shorter bolts and it should be fine. Thats what I did.

    And as already mentioned, the tank should not move around.
     
  15. Omega

    Omega Proven Member

    1,275
    9
    Joined Oct 10, 2002
    Randolph, New Jersey
    Thanks for the input, I have not been able to work on the car recently.

    I am certainly installing the tank before the subframe... i can't imagine doing it the other way.

    The straps and pan seem to be one peice, and the tank is centered. It should be fine, thaks.

    I have more pics, i'll post them later.
     
  16. AgaricX

    AgaricX Proven Member

    31
    0
    Joined Apr 1, 2003
    Bethesda, Maryland
    So, I just put my AWD Spyder on the ground on Wednesday. It runs and drives great! It's a little creaky in the rear, but I'm installing a roll bar this weekend to stiffen up and relieve the torsional stress.

    Anyway, I have a few questions for those who have done this swap:

    My fuel gauge isn't working. Neither is my odometer and sometimes the speedo. Tach works great. Am I missing something? I especially want the fuel gauge working. Has anyone run into these problems?

    WooHoo!
     
  17. SlowSpyder

    SlowSpyder Proven Member

    560
    12
    Joined Oct 27, 2002
    Los Angeles, California
    check the obvious, is the connector for the speedo gear fully connected and same goes for the fuel level sending unit
     
    My DSM:
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  18. 99gst_racer

    99gst_racer Moderator

    8,988
    699
    Joined Apr 5, 2003
    Coloma, Michigan
    AgaricX - The AWD fuel tank has dual senders, so you will have to rewire it. Did you already do that or did you just try to use the one sender?


    PS - I'm in the middle of doing the swap on my 99 GST as well.
     
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Street Build

    609.8 whp   541.2 lb/ft
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  19. Omega

    Omega Proven Member

    1,275
    9
    Joined Oct 10, 2002
    Randolph, New Jersey
    Well, the car finally sits on it's own wheels. I have very little time to work on it and I hate being out in the cold.

    My last problem: Fuel gauge!

    I am almost positive I have/had it wired like the webpage showed... no dice.

    If I read the conversion page correctly; the main sender has a ground, low fuel light (LFL) and fuel gauge (FG) wire. Both the LFL and FG wires go from the main then to the aux then back to the body harness.

    I have been able to read a full tank of fuel off the pass side sender. I can't get squat from the 4 wires from the aux sender. I even cut an access hole to it. I get continuity from the main plug over to the aux, but that's it. All 4 wires show an open circuit. Bare in mind I am using a GSX fuel tank harness and simply splicing all the wires into my existing one.

    What the hell am I doing wrong?! The only thing I can think of is the aux sender is bad. If that was the case the previous owner would not have had a working fuel gauge, which I am pretty sure he did. I'll have to ask.
     
  20. Scrymerr

    Scrymerr Proven Member

    717
    4
    Joined Sep 22, 2002
    Vacaville, California
    Why on earth would you have to go to the hardware store to buy shorter bolts, just use the ones you take out of the rear hole on the GST and move those to the front position, they are a perfect length. I welded in a large square plate about 6mm thick with a hole through it. Because the factory bolts have square heads it was really easy to put welds on the square plate to prevent the head from turning once dropped through the hole. I would not recommend just putting a bolt through without doing any type of reincforcement, the metal is not very thick. I'm sure it would not be a huge deal if not, but I would not want the subframe to loosen up at all because the metal stretched down or anything.
     

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    My DSM:
    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    14.520 @ 99.170 MPH
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    99gst_racer likes this.
  21. Scrymerr

    Scrymerr Proven Member

    717
    4
    Joined Sep 22, 2002
    Vacaville, California
    After I primed the piece I welded in in the picture, It did not spin when I tightened it with the impact gun, but ended up putting some welds around the square to make sure it didnt spin anyway before I closed the floor up.
     
    My DSM:
    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    14.520 @ 99.170 MPH
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  22. jasonlee

    jasonlee Proven Member

    150
    1
    Joined Mar 8, 2004
    Waterloo, Iowa
    Ive done 3 of these conversions now.. (well on dodge avengers, but its still basically the same) but the rear wiring for the fuel gauge... I found its all in the grounds. on my first one, I couldnt get it to work for the longest time, but finally figured out I missed a ground, I just hooked it to the other ground wires and bingo.. fuel guage worked. and as for putting the bolt in, on my car originally I didnt put anything in there, but on the other 2 I did put a plate very similar to the picture in this thread. my car hasnt had any problems, and it previously was making around 500hp at the wheels, but i may just put one in there sometime for piece of mind because my new engine is gonna be crazy.

    edit: I also wanted to add that I didnt mess with the aux. sender wiring at all, I used the gsx wiring harness for the pump/sending unit, and spliced the wires in... I assume if you are getting the reading from the pass. side sending unit, that all the wires are hooked up properly...it uses the signal from the aux. in conjunction wiht the main to determine the actual fuel level... if the aux wasnt working, i dont think the gauge on the dash would be working at all.
     
  23. Omega

    Omega Proven Member

    1,275
    9
    Joined Oct 10, 2002
    Randolph, New Jersey
    Do you have any problems with not having the aux sender not hooked up?

    If you use the AWD harness, why not include it? You would actually have to do more work doing it that way and only using the one. What do you do about the *blah* sensor that is on the aux side.. I think it's a pressure sensor of some sort.

    Since you don't use the aux sender, feel like selling me one? :D

    Here is a diagram of what I am talking about.
     

    Attached Files:

  24. jasonlee

    jasonlee Proven Member

    150
    1
    Joined Mar 8, 2004
    Waterloo, Iowa
    well, I meant I did use it, but I didnt mess with the wiring of it at all. i just left the wiring alone on the tank itself, then used the other end of the harness and spliced it into the wiring from the other harness.

    if i get a chance to go out to my friends house where i have my car stored for the winter, i will take a quick look at it so i can make a diagram for you.

    j
     
  25. 99gst_racer

    99gst_racer Moderator

    8,988
    699
    Joined Apr 5, 2003
    Coloma, Michigan
    Upon removal of the subframe, what did you guys do to keep the square head of the bolt from spinning?

    Also, does anyone have a detailed picture of where to cut to access the subframe bolts? I have a 2.25" hole saw that I'll be using - I just want to make sure I drill in the right spot the first time.
     
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Street Build

    609.8 whp   541.2 lb/ft
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