4G63T Valve spring Info

Posted by BogusSVO, Jul 3, 2009
Newbie Forum - Beginner DSM modification questions and discussions. Common, repetitive, and general discussions will get dumped here from other tech forums. Unless you're a Probationary member you shouldn't post threads here.

  1. BogusSVO

    BogusSVO DSM Wiseman

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    just some quick info on stock replacement valve springs from SBI



    Part Number #160-1280

    Free length 1.910
    O.D. 1.110
    I.D. .754
    Wire size .145x.178


    Closed position
    pressure & Length (intalled specs)
    66@1.575 Valve closed

    Open position
    Pressure & length Valve Open
    160@1.240

    solid height
    1.100

    The factory installed springs should be close to this also.

    EDIT: I just checked 7 sets of used 4G63 valve springs, and only came up with 1 and a half sets of decent used springs.
    Most springs checked between 45-55 Lbs @ 1.575
    I would say a good spring should test at 60lbs@1.575, Most spring manufactures, will allow 10% loss in spring tention for spring "break in"
    I used a Rimac spring pressure tester.


    Ferrea "beehive" Spring info


    Specs on the springs
    - Spring O.D. - 23.87mm / 28.07mm = .939/1.105
    - Spring I.D. - 14.73mm / 18.85mm = .579/.742
    - Seat Pressure - 90 lbs. @38mm = 1.496
    - Open Pressure - 225 lbs. @28mm =1.102
    - Rate Inch - 342 lbs.
    - Coil Bind - 23mm =.905
    - Max Net Lift – 13.5mm = .531
    - Spring Material - PAC Alloy

    http://www.extremepsi.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=21647&cat=1417&page=1

    BC 1100 Valve spring info
    Spring Pressure:
    BC1100 Seat:
    Colsed 1.500" @ 95 lbs /
    Open: 1.000" @ 235 lbs /
    Coil Bind: 0.935"
    (no machine work required)

    http://www.briancrower.com/makes/mitsubishi/4g63.shtml


    GSC Power-Division 4G63T Beehive Single Spring Set
    Spring Pressures :
    Seat @ 1.56"=68 lbs / .300"=160lbs / .400"=190lbs / .450"=210lbs / .625"= Coil bind.

    http://www.vr-speed.com/store/gsc-p...spring-set-1g-2g-dsm-evo-8-9-4g63-p-2046.html


    Kiggley springs
    97lb Seat Pressure at 1.440"

    325lb/in Rate

    http://www.shop.kigglyracing.com/product.sc?productId=2&categoryId=1




    I will keep trying to add info as I find it.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2014
    #1
    99gst_racer and 9!'clipseDOHC like this.
  2. e85_4g63

    e85_4g63 Proven Member

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    Is this just for everyone's info or are you asking a question here? I'm not understanding your post....
    #2
  3. BogusSVO

    BogusSVO DSM Wiseman

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    I am bulding a 4G63T head for one of my customers, and I am just passing the info along to those who can use it.


    There is not a question.
    #3
  4. AWD_Hybrid

    AWD_Hybrid Proven Member

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    BogusSVO thanks for the tip on inconsistant springs !
    You talking about 1g or 2g ?
    Evo 1,2,3 have 20lb more seat pres
    Might solve the minimum pres being enough
    Even if Evo spring vary also
    Just a thought
    Cheers !
    #4
  5. BogusSVO

    BogusSVO DSM Wiseman

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    AWD_Hybrid..... This should be for the 1g and 2g
    according to my parts catalog 1990-1999, same spring for both the turbo and N/A engines
    Vin F,U for the turbo
    and Vin E,R for the NA

    but i would say i have found errors in parts catalogs before.

    I would say the springs on the heads are just getting old, most all these engines I am sure have over 100k on them by now. How many times have the springs been bounced?
    #5
  6. AWD_Hybrid

    AWD_Hybrid Proven Member

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    4x each per rev. What gear ? LOL
    Good to have a machinist on here.
    I'm a retired sheet metal tradesman still tinkering.
    Cheers !
    #6
  7. e85_4g63

    e85_4g63 Proven Member

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    I see. Always good to have base measurements to go off of when modifying things!
    #7
  8. BogusSVO

    BogusSVO DSM Wiseman

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    AWD too bad your not closer!! your skills are just what I need for a project for my car. I want to build a custom front spoiler and rear diffuser. I have taken a eye towards LSR, and body kits are not avaiable for my car. so I am planning on making my own out of sheet metal. I suffer from to much front end lift at about 120mph.
    #8
  9. AWD_Hybrid

    AWD_Hybrid Proven Member

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    PM sent to stay on topic
    Cheers !
    #9
  10. BogusSVO

    BogusSVO DSM Wiseman

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    I orginaly posted this in .....
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...0359-bc-spring-broke-half-destroyed-head.html





    Ok lets see if I can explain this with out loosing anyone, myself included.

    keltalon... you want 95lbs on the seat, at what installed height? thats the first question that has to be awnsered.
    The next question is what is the lift of the NET lift of the cam? so we know how far the spring will be compressed at full lift.
    Installed height is the distance between the bottom of the retainer and the top of the spring pad.

    I have listed 4 spring brands below, and all 4 have diffrent installed heights.

    when we look at the SBI OE replacements , they want a 1.575 installed height, we will assume that is an OE spec. (if someone has diffrent info please post it!!!!!!)

    with that a a base to work with, we see that we will have to shim ALL the aftermarket springs below
    they all ask for a shorter installed height.

    now to increase the spring pressures we have to shorten the installed height from the manufacture spec.

    I would not suggest the using the GSC power springs, looking at the avaiable specs, they are about a stock spring that will handle more lift. look at the SBI spring closed and compare to the GSC spring

    SBI is 66 @ 1.575
    GSC is 68 @ 1.560

    now look at the open rates...

    SBI is 160 @240
    GSC is 160 @ .300 lift (some math here 1.560 - .300 =1.260)

    so the GSC has a slightly more in/lb rate but not enough to really matter over the SBI

    to get the GSC spring on the seat would require shimming the installed height to appox 1.460, these springs gain appox 30 lbs per .100 closed look at the .300 and .400 spec, and they may be a variable rate spring due to the the gain at the .500 spec

    variable rate springs are like 2 springs in one, the first few coils are "soft" for low lift cams that do not need alot of pressure over the nose of the cam to keep out of valve float. the bottom coils gain pressure more quickly for big lift cams that need more pressure.

    From what I have been reading , the Kiggly springs are supposed to be the end all spring for the 4G63 engines.
    But there isnt enough info about the spring specs for me to figure inch rates and such . and they are also about twice the price of the GSC springs

    IF ANYONE RUNNING THE KIGGLEY SPRINGS STILL HAS THERE SPEC SHEET PLEASE POST!!

    so with what your wanting to run for pressure on the seat, 95lbs, I would not run the GSC nor the SBI springs.

    The ferrea springs I feel would be a better fit due to the Installed seat pressure of 90lbs @ 1.496

    now that I have looked at the specs , the Ferrea springs seem to be a heavier spring than the Kiggley springs

    Kiggley inch rate of 325lbs
    Ferrea inch rate of 342lbs

    so with this info and a little more math the Kiggley springs would be about 81lbs @1.490
    where the Ferrea are 90 @1.496

    so of the springs listed, and the way the math works out, I would get the Ferrea springs.

    If you want a real world run down on them I know some one who is running them and may be willing to talk to you about them.






    SBI OE Replacement
    Part Number #160-1280

    Free length 1.910
    O.D. 1.110
    I.D. .754
    Wire size .145x.178


    Closed position
    pressure & Length (intalled specs)
    66@1.575 Valve closed

    Open position
    Pressure & length Valve Open
    160@1.240

    solid height
    1.100



    GSC Power-Division 4G63T Beehive Single Spring Set
    Spring Pressures :
    Seat @ 1.56"=68 lbs / .300"=160lbs / .400"=190lbs / .450"=210lbs / .625"= Coil bind.



    Kiggley springs
    97lb Seat Pressure at 1.440"

    325lb/in Rate


    Ferrea "beehive" Spring info


    Specs on the springs
    - Spring O.D. - 23.87mm / 28.07mm = .939/1.105
    - Spring I.D. - 14.73mm / 18.85mm = .579/.742
    - Seat Pressure - 90 lbs. @38mm = 1.496
    - Open Pressure - 225 lbs. @28mm =1.102
    - Rate Inch - 342 lbs.
    - Coil Bind - 23mm =.905
    - Max Net Lift – 13.5mm = .531
    - Spring Material - PAC Alloy
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2014
    #10
    99gst_racer likes this.
  11. Fwd650HP

    Fwd650HP Proven Member

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    SuperTech:

    Part # SPR-M1007S

    O.D. 28.10mm
    I.D. 20.00mm

    Seated pressure (lbs.@mm) 76@39.6

    Open (lift) 200@115

    Max lift 14.90mm

    Coil Bind 24.70mm

    Rate (lbs/mm) 10.50mm

    Spring material: Superclean Chrome Silicon Vanadium Steel Alloy
    #11
  12. talon91tsiawd1

    talon91tsiawd1 Proven Member

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    CROWER
    O.D./I.D. - 1.1051/0.785
    Open Pressure - 1.600=59# 1.560=70#
    Seat Pressure - 1.100=190# 1.000=220#
    Coil Bind - .910
    Wire Diameter - .164

    I know this might be off topic but what would be the best springs for the GSC S1 cams? Here are the specs

    Attached Files:

    #12
  13. DSMunknown

    DSMunknown Proven Member

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    BogusSVO - You by chance have any info on the Evo 8/9 valve springs?
    #13
  14. BogusSVO

    BogusSVO DSM Wiseman

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    DSMUnknown... No I do not.... if/when you find it please post it in this thread.
    #14
  15. josh38127

    josh38127 Proven Member

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    I am a complete head work noob.I haven't found a local shop to help me. I have a stock 2g head, 1g cams and valves. thats it. The guides look ok.I just want to be able to hit 400hp safely. What kind of setup would you reconmend. How much would you charge for parts and labor. pm me. Sorry for cluttering up your post.
    #15
  16. FLASH1970

    FLASH1970 Proven Member

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    I second that.
    #16
  17. steve

    steve DSM Wiseman

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    I have a set I could load you if you want to test them.
    #17
  18. 95burgundyesi

    95burgundyesi Proven Member

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    ^ Steve I just installed evo 8 stock springs and retainers. So I will keep things conservative until I see some results.
    #18
  19. 95blackGsTurbo

    95blackGsTurbo DSM Wiseman

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    Thiefed from DSMTalk

    Some general data used in the test to "standardize" the results a bit.

    Installed height general numbers (1.560) for comparison; this includes the mitsu locator given at an average value of 40.

    .410 will be used for cam lift.

    As follows;
    DSM
    Coil Bind
    1.115
    60
    1.175 SAFE

    1.560 = 68lbs
    .030
    1.530 = 72lbs
    .410 LIFT
    1.120 = 192lbs

    But we're under where we need to be. When performing this last squeeze there was no daylight left. ABORT ABORT! DSM spring is KO'd. Even if we pull the shim its still over.


    EVO
    Coil Bind
    1.035
    60
    1.095 SAFE

    Installed height general numbers (1.560) for comparison; this includes the mitsu locator given at an average value of 40.

    1.560 = 65lbs
    .030 shim
    1.530 = 72lbs
    .410 will be used to simulate cam lift
    1.120 = 154lbs

    In referance to our original coil bind number, we can see we still have room on the Evo spring. Showing the benefits of the semi-beehive springs and its much looser coils. It would take a 60 thou shim to max this scenario out.

    MANLEY
    Coil Bind
    .925
    60
    .985 SAFE

    1.560 = 78lbs
    .030 shim
    1.530 = 88lbs
    .410
    1.120 = 204lbs

    As we can see here there obviously isn't going to be any problems in sight.
    This is why you pay $2XX for springs and retainers.


    NOW... lets see what these things weigh.

    DSM
    Spring: 56.3g
    Retainer: 13.7g

    Evo
    Spring: 39g
    Retainer: 3.9g !!! HOLY ####!

    Manley
    Spring: 42.7g
    Retainer: 8.9g
    #19
  20. 95burgundyesi

    95burgundyesi Proven Member

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    So a fp2 cam has a cam lobe lift of 0.239 intake and 0.232 exhaust. That's way under the .410 used to simulate the evo springs. So I am safe to rev to where power drops off based on my logs?
    #20
  21. Strm Trpr

    Strm Trpr Proven Member

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    .410" is taking the rocker ratio of ~1.7 into consideration.
    The .239" * 1.7 = .406"
    #21
  22. 95burgundyesi

    95burgundyesi Proven Member

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    O I get it now, haha I will admit I don't understand all of this. But I get where that number came from. Looks like the evo spring will work perfect to rev out the fp2 cams, it held .410 and fp2s are .406. Thats strm trpr, and everyone else I kinda understand things now.
    #22
  23. BogusSVO

    BogusSVO DSM Wiseman

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    GSC Power-Division Beehive Valve Springs w/ Titanium Retainer and Chromoly spring seats (All 4g63)


    Seat pressure:
    Seat at 1.46"= 95 pounds
    .300"= 200 pounds
    .400"= 250 pounds
    CoilBind .560"

    GSC Power-Division 4G63T EVO 1-9 Stage 3 Beehive Valve Springs w/ Titanium Retainer Valvetrain Kit - Modern Automotive Performance

    this makes me wonder what what the diffrence is beteen these spring and the GSC springs in the first post... I see the installed height differs but could it be the same spring, just checked at diffrent points?
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2012
    #23
  24. Redwidow

    Redwidow Proven Member

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    Correct me if I am wrong on understanding this. Comparing the DSM springs to the EVO springs, The Evo Springs have lower coil bind specs, due to the semi bee hive construction, But the DSM springs are actually stronger? Is there any sense in changing to EVO valve springs, other than the coil bind being at a lower height, and that they are way lighter?
    #24
  25. Strm Trpr

    Strm Trpr Proven Member

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    I've read that the reason Evo Springs are lighter is because the upper portion of the spring is lighter as well as the Alumium Retainer vs the heavier cylindrical spring and steel DSM Retainer.

    The lighter the reciprocating weight the spring has to control, the lighter the spring can be...
    #25

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