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4G63T Valve spring Info

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BogusSVO

10+ Year Contributor
5,891
318
Jul 1, 2009
Pensacola, Florida
just some quick info on stock replacement valve springs from SBI



Part Number #160-1280

Free length 1.910
O.D. 1.110
I.D. .754
Wire size .145x.178


Closed position
pressure & Length (intalled specs)
[email protected] Valve closed

Open position
Pressure & length Valve Open
[email protected]

solid height
1.100

The factory installed springs should be close to this also.

EDIT: I just checked 7 sets of used 4G63 valve springs, and only came up with 1 and a half sets of decent used springs.
Most springs checked between 45-55 Lbs @ 1.575
I would say a good spring should test at [email protected], Most spring manufactures, will allow 10% loss in spring tention for spring "break in"
I used a Rimac spring pressure tester.


Ferrea "beehive" Spring info


Specs on the springs
- Spring O.D. - 23.87mm / 28.07mm = .939/1.105
- Spring I.D. - 14.73mm / 18.85mm = .579/.742
- Seat Pressure - 90 lbs. @38mm = 1.496
- Open Pressure - 225 lbs. @28mm =1.102
- Rate Inch - 342 lbs.
- Coil Bind - 23mm =.905
- Max Net Lift – 13.5mm = .531
- Spring Material - PAC Alloy

http://www.extremepsi.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=21647&cat=1417&page=1

BC 1100 Valve spring info
Spring Pressure:
BC1100 Seat:
Colsed 1.500" @ 95 lbs /
Open: 1.000" @ 235 lbs /
Coil Bind: 0.935"
(no machine work required)

http://www.briancrower.com/makes/mitsubishi/4g63.shtml


GSC Power-Division 4G63T Beehive Single Spring Set
Spring Pressures :
Seat @ 1.56"=68 lbs / .300"=160lbs / .400"=190lbs / .450"=210lbs / .625"= Coil bind.

http://www.vr-speed.com/store/gsc-p...spring-set-1g-2g-dsm-evo-8-9-4g63-p-2046.html


Kiggley springs
97lb Seat Pressure at 1.440"

325lb/in Rate

http://www.shop.kigglyracing.com/product.sc?productId=2&categoryId=1




I will keep trying to add info as I find it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Does anyone know if I will be ok using .030 shimmed Crower springs with FP2x cams. Its all bolted in but will still be awhile till its running. So if I need to change something I can.
 
can i run dks 272's with evo 8 valve springs safely in my 1g 6bolt without having to worry about issues?
 
To OP, I belive to get 95# @ seat with BC's installed needs to be 1.500"?

Yes it is, when I did the org post, I did not have the sheet, and pulled that info from the website.

I just talked to both Brain and Dustin at BC, they are going to fix the info on the website.

I Have the BC Spec sheet in front of me, and the correct info is 95 lbs at 1.500
 
From
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...2-these-manley-valve-springs-pics-inside.html

I don't know if u guys know this or not but there are only a few company's that make valve springs and a lot of reboxers

Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk

Really? Then why do they advertise spring rates, and installed height, and why are those advertised spring rates and installed heights different between each manufacturer?

You might be right for OEM and OEM replacement springs.

No he is right, there is only about 3 or 4 companies that make springs ( Think Kiggley makes them?) But you can call one of the companies and give them the specs you want and they will make them if you buy enough of them.

So does that mean that Kiggly's beehives are the same as GSC's, as FP's, etc...and pricing is all just something to make us feel special for spending $400 instead of $300? Kiggly's are pretty much acknowledged as being the cats meow for high lift/aggressive ramp cams....So is that all just B.S., and they are no better than other cheaper beehives, or by the same manufacturer as FP or GSC, but with different manufactured specs? Strange that Kiggly could justify that extra $150 for their beehives simply because their requested specs are different than say, GSC...?


The price will be based on how many they buy in there lot.

Look at the specs between ferrea and kiggly

Read post # 1 and #10
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341209-4g63t-valve-spring-info.html#post152788510

Specs for both are at the bottom of post #10


Sorry Bogus,
Now I'm more confused... I might not be reading those right, but to me the ferrea's and Kiggly's seem to be two different beehive springs, with two different seat pressures and two different spring rates....are you saying that Ferrea and Kiggly beehives are both manufactured by the same entity, and the fact that Kiggly buys smaller lots accounts for their higher price? What then accounts for the differences in performance? Is that just the differences in preferred specs that Ferrea wanted vs what Kiggly wanted?
Marketing antics...sheesh.

No I am not saying that ferrea and kiggly springs come from the same plant.

The diffrence is Kiggley springs were (probley)designed with there cams in mind, and there build theroy.
Where Ferrea has to design a spring that will work with about any cam.
Also I feel that Ferrea has a R&D department and came up with the specs they use.
 
From the info I have been seing on the evo valve springs, they have less seat pressure than the stock 4g spring.

Get a set of BC1100 springs, with your stock retainers, check the installed height, shim as needed and you will be golden!
 
I was about to create a new thread for this, but here is my question;

I bought a set of Evo 8 Valve springs and retainers, and then I bought a set of DSM Ferra Valve Locks from Extremepsi under the assumption that they would work with the Evo 8 retainers...now I installed 12 of them already, but the tops of the valve stems do not sit flush with the retainer...have I made a $75 mistake? And if so, do I need to get Evo 8 Valve Locks instead?
 
you should have a bit of the valve tip sticking above the retainer/locks. If you do not the followers will have nothing to align on.

the valve lock should have the bead on the top edge of the lock
 
you should have a bit of the valve tip sticking above the retainer/locks. If you do not the followers will have nothing to align on.

the valve lock should have the bead on the top edge of the lock

A) How much is a bit? I am not at home right now but first thing when I get back I will break out the digital calipers and take a few measurements, snap some pictures, and post them up before 2pm PST.

B) They do, just to be absolutely sure though; the skinny part of the lock goes down and the bead goes up right? :shhh: I swear I am not as big of a newbie as I used to be :p

Oh also, if you can picture looking down at the installed spring/retainer, the locks do not quite come all the way together and so there is one small gap where the vertical edges of the locks do not touch. Ill post a picture of what I am talking about later today. But is that normal to have a gap in there?
 
A) How much is a bit? I am not at home right now but first thing when I get back I will break out the digital calipers and take a few measurements, snap some pictures, and post them up before 2pm PST.

B) They do, just to be absolutely sure though; the skinny part of the lock goes down and the bead goes up right? :shhh: I swear I am not as big of a newbie as I used to be :p

Oh also, if you can picture looking down at the installed spring/retainer, the locks do not quite come all the way together and so there is one small gap where the vertical edges of the locks do not touch. Ill post a picture of what I am talking about later today. But is that normal to have a gap in there?

A) appox .160 with the locks/retainers installed

B) yes, bead up, thin taper towards the head of the valve
 
From the info I have been seing on the evo valve springs, they have less seat pressure than the stock 4g spring.

Get a set of BC1100 springs, with your stock retainers, check the installed height, shim as needed and you will be golden!

So the EVO 8 springs are no good to use.
I bought a set of them, seats, retainers and valves to use in my build thinking they would fit my needs
 
So the EVO 8 springs are no good to use.
I bought a set of them, seats, retainers and valves to use in my build thinking they would fit my needs

If you go back and read post #19, you can see where someone was doing a cam lift test.

The EVO spring has about the same pressures as a good stock 4g spring, but can handle more lift.
 
A) appox .160 with the locks/retainers installed


Alright well the extrusions measures on an average of 0.149 :thumb:

Now about that gap I mentioned earlier, I forgot to take pictures so Ill post them up tomorrow as soon as I can, but should there be a gap between the locks when installed? Like if you look directly down at them, they do not join to make a full 360*, maybe 350* with a 10* gap, is this normal?
 
Yes thats common, I can not recall a head that the locks touch on both sides
 
Manley single spring Part # MAN-22125-16

Manley Performance Sport Compact Valve Springs

- Wound from super clean alloy 3
- Designed to handle aftermarket camshafts
- Revs up to 10,000 RPM with Manley titanium retainers

Part # 22125-16
Set of 16

O.D. / I.D. - 1.100"/.775"
Pressures - 66 @ 1.580"
175 @ 1.210"
237 @ 1.000"
Stock/Maximum Net Lift - .370"
.580"
Coil Bind - .950"
Rate (lbs./in.) - 294
 
From..
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...evo-valve-springs-280-cams.html#post152629280

Post #4


I will continue to put this info out there. I went to the machine shop with 32 evo springs. They were all around 45lbs at 1.550", and less than 150lbs over the nose of a 10mm lift cam, junk. Brand new stock replacement dsm springs were stronger. Used springs always lose pressure.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...e-my-setup-future-setup-looking-advice-2.html
Read post #32 #33


This link should be here too.... (Not about EVO springs)
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...omparison-stock-hks-bc1100.html#post152945194
 


I would REALLY question that tester- as I have NEVER seen an evo spring that low-ever! With hat little spring pressure, it would float with a stock cam @ 8k. Why can all these evos run 272's to 8500 with stock valve-train and no issue? Coincidence? I think not.

I am going to all but call those numbers bogus as I have tested 100's, and have NEVER seen number like that. Also consider that this does not take into effect the retainer. Further-I recommend people run a .060 shim if they are going over 8500 or with 280's. With the EVO's lower coil bind numbers, the spring bind is not effected unless you are running an extreme lift cam. the .060 Shim gets you to 80 psi seat pressure (with 3psi per spring looking at a used set). you can buy them at your local parts store- Search: valve springs shmims | Valve Spring Shim | AutoZone.com

Now- about the retainer, maybe the biggest reason this is a great upgrade.

Stock DSM 15.2g

Crower CM-8.5

Stock Evo 9 3.98 grams!!!!! That is weight that the spring does not need to lift every single valve event. Considering 8k RPM- thats 40,800 grams or 99 pounds worth of weight the spring does not have to contend with.



I just got off the phone with David Crower- "Every gram you can remove from the retainer, you gain 50 rpm in "usability" with all other factors being equal". This is also on a progressive scale" Meaning the higher the RPM, the greater the benefit of light valve train parts.

I have personally ran this set up to 8800rpm, making 710 whp with NO valve float.

So-higher spring tension, MUCH lighter retainer, and its not an upgrade? Call me crazy-but the results speak for themselves.
 
I would REALLY question that tester- as I have NEVER seen an evo spring that low-ever! With hat little spring pressure, it would float with a stock cam @ 8k. Why can all these evos run 272's to 8500 with stock valve-train and no issue? Coincidence? I think not.

I am going to all but call those numbers bogus as I have tested 100's, and have NEVER seen number like that. Also consider that this does not take into effect the retainer. Further-I recommend people run a .060 shim if they are going over 8500 or with 280's. With the EVO's lower coil bind numbers, the spring bind is not effected unless you are running an extreme lift cam. the .060 Shim gets you to 80 psi seat pressure (with 3psi per spring looking at a used set). you can buy them at your local parts store- Search: valve springs shmims | Valve Spring Shim | AutoZone.com

Now- about the retainer, maybe the biggest reason this is a great upgrade.

Stock DSM 15.2g

Crower CM-8.5

Stock Evo 9 3.98 grams!!!!! That is weight that the spring does not need to lift every single valve event. Considering 8k RPM- thats 40,800 grams or 99 pounds worth of weight the spring does not have to contend with.



I just got off the phone with David Crower- "Every gram you can remove from the retainer, you gain 50 rpm in "usability" with all other factors being equal". This is also on a progressive scale" Meaning the higher the RPM, the greater the benefit of light valve train parts.

I have personally ran this set up to 8800rpm, making 710 whp with NO valve float.

So-higher spring tension, MUCH lighter retainer, and its not an upgrade? Call me crazy-but the results speak for themselves.

Whose tester are you questioning? Mine? The one Donnie used?

Speaking of spring testers, what brand do you have?

No question the parts are lighter.

Now what installed height do you use? what seat pressure do you look for?
You say you have tested 100's of these springs.
But you have yet to find a bad set? or even a single bad spring?

I am sure you are right about alot of Evos running 272s, just like there are alot of DSMs running 272 on old wore out stock valve springs.
Just beascuse you get away with it doesn't make it right.

710 hp and 8800 rpm... cool....how long has it been together?
 
Whose tester are you questioning? Mine? The one Donnie used?

Donnie.


Speaking of spring testers, what brand do you have?

I have nothing. I used BR's machine shop units for the test. A COMP Cams 5313 and a Longacre Racing Products 73511 both within .5. They do a lot of BBC Alcohol motors, so they need big boy testers.



No question the parts are lighter.

Now what installed height do you use? what seat pressure do you look for?
You say you have tested 100's of these springs.
But you have yet to find a bad set? or even a single bad spring?

I am sure you are right about alot of Evos running 272s, just like there are alot of DSMs running 272 on old wore out stock valve springs.
Just beascuse you get away with it doesn't make it right.

710 hp and 8800 rpm... cool....how long has it been together?

Since Late 2005. This was the first car I tried the Evo springs on. Using Comp 101200's Went Mid 10's @151 mph (FWD) and was my DD. Motor was sold to a guy in FL who was taking it to 9k and more boost with no issues. I think this car is not a DD though- just Race and weekend street car. The motor has only had a head gasket changed since I put it together.

For me- the proof is in the pudding. :)
 
Yes I bet they need big boy testers for setting up .600 lift and larger solid roller cams .

If it been working for you rock on!

From what few sets I have seen, and other info, I just do not see them as much benifit.
 
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