Holset Turbos, PART 3

[Morphius]

Continue on..........




For more history:
Link to Part 1:
Holset Turbos - DSM Forums

Link to Part 2:
Holset Turbos, PART 2 - DSM Forums



General summary provided by a wisemen:

Originally Posted by dsm-onster

Turbine housings and bolton solutions:

Get bolton BEP housings from theturbotrader.com. There are also larger t3 style housings that seam to flow more and don't sacrifice so much spool. The hx35 and h1c both fit in the hx35 footpront. MOST h1e turbines fit in an hx40 footprint. Don't get the small h1c from the non-intercooled pickups. The small h1c doesnot have an MWE groove or the webbing for it in the compressor inlet. The big h1c does not have the MWE groove, but does have the webbing. The hx35/h1c/hy35 has a t3 bolt pattern in the inlet. The hx40/h1e has a t4 inlet boltpattern. The hy35 has a smaller turbine wheel and aturbine housing connection that does not allow for a bolton housing to be used. It does not have a divided housing so any t3 manifold can be used effectively with this turbo. Running a divided turbine housing with an undivided runner manifold will lead to quite slower spool, but considering how fast they spool doing that puts them in the same spool range as other turbos that flow the same. Non of the top performing bolton style turbine housing setups have run a stock or evo exhaust manifold. The choke is at the manifold if anywhere not the turbine housing. They spool fast because the turbines can convert more exhaust energy to work and their compressor require less work to achieve and maintain a certain boost. They're more efficient.

Efficiency and performance:

The hx35 has a 52 lb/min compressor map that is more efficient at high boost than the 50-trim or 20g. The hx35 in the bolton housing has delivered 500whp and spools at the mid 3K range with 272 style cams and 2.0L. The hx35 flows a little more than the big h1c (most speculate around 2-3 lb/min) it has the same turbine wheel. The hy35 will spool faster than an hx35 but of course will choke out up top sooner because of the smaller turbine wheel. The hx40 in the bolton housing has delivered 650whp and spools in the very low 4K range with 272 style cams and 2.0L. Stock cams will see faster spool with both.

Misc.:

Holset's don't spool slow. They spool faster than their garrett or mitsubishi counterparts. Diesel exhaust is cold and slow moving. Holset patented map width enhancement. They do not have extended tip technology, but there compressors show more efficiency than their garrett or mitsubishi counterpart. They have superback technology with leads to VERY, VERY durable compressors. The are designed to be overworked and underpaid. There are discrepancies all over the web concerning the compressor maps. Take what you hear/read with a grain of salt and a shot of tequila, and the worm. The holset is fine with stock 4g63 oil pressure from the oil filter housing. If you have no b shafts, you'll need a restrictor. The drain line is a garret bolt pattern. The feed line is different for different turbos.

[dsm-onster]

Originally Posted by GORBS88

You have confused me here, sorry. You state that the 7 blade flows 55lbs/min but is within 3 of the 6 blade which is 57lbs. I thought that was within 2lbs? Or am i reading this wrong? Could you list the lbs/min for all three wheel options for the hx-40?
I am getting the pro 6 blade so i am assuming it flows 57lbs/min?

3-2. What' the big deal at this flow level ? 2lbs/min less is within 3 lbs/min of the 6 blade. The maps likely arn't exact. But the ballpark flows are very close. Again, this is assuming these compressor maps are arranged in the order I'm speculating.

Yes, you are only assuming that the pro wheel flows 57 lbs/min.

[GORBS88]

Originally Posted by dsm-onster

3-2. What' the big deal at this flow level ? 2lbs/min less is within 3 lbs/min of the 6 blade. The maps likely arn't exact. But the ballpark flows are very close. Again, this is assuming these compressor maps are arranged in the order I'm speculating.

Yes, you are only assuming that the pro wheel flows 57 lbs/min.

I'm not very good at reading the compressor maps so i will need to ask you some questions, I'm just curious about the 57lbs/min number? Is that a number that comes from holset or is that a number that you got from reading the maps??
You found out that the hx-35 flowed 51lbs/min so im just curious if there is anyway to be more certain?
Don't mind me if some of my questions are out of line. I just get real confused when i lookin at a comoressor map

thanx again
mike

[joeracer321]

My understanding has always been is that a turbo with more compressor blades will be more efficient at lower boost levels, a compressor with fewer blades will be more efficient at higher boost. Now where the three variants of the hx-40 sit, I have no idea as there have been no official maps released by Holset that I have seen. What would be more important is what real world numbers are being produced from these turbos, as in part two of the thread, I have made 521 WHP at 28PSI on the BEP housing internally gated. So there is definitely more in it with an external gate, and even more potential with a larger a/r housing.

[dsm-onster]

Originally Posted by GORBS88

I'm not very good at reading the compressor maps so i will need to ask you some questions, I'm just curious about the 57lbs/min number? Is that a number that comes from holset or is that a number that you got from reading the maps??
You found out that the hx-35 flowed 51lbs/min so im just curious if there is anyway to be more certain?
Don't mind me if some of my questions are out of line. I just get real confused when i lookin at a comoressor map

thanx again
mike

Here's the known hx40 maps:

[dsm-onster]

Here's the hx35 map:

[dsm-onster]

I'm looking at the two higher flowing hx40 maps. And there is no 127Krpms curve for the highest flowing map! How far would this map stretch if there were?!!! I can see quite enough over 60 lbs/min entirely possible at 127Krpms.

[GORBS88]

Originally Posted by dsm-onster

I'm looking at the two higher flowing hx40 maps. And there is no 127Krpms curve for the highest flowing map! How far would this map stretch if there were?!!! I can see quite enough over 60 lbs/min entirely possible at 127Krpms.

Ok, this is starting to make sense. thanx for all the help!!

I will advise when i get this hx-40 on, i will be going from bolt on hx-35 to bolt on hx-40 pro.

[dsm-onster]

I'm sorry for the cofusion. I've looked at those maps countless time and never payed attention to the rpms. The pro could very well flow 5-7 lbs/min more than the 7-blade.

The hx35 clearly pushes more volume than the 8-blade (if the small map is the 8 blade). The advantage the 8-blade has is that larger hx40 turbine. The lag probably isn't worth the more turbine flow, unless you're looking at as much pumpgas power as possible on an 'hx35 budget'.

[TurboAnything]

eBay Motors: Cummins HX40 diesel Holset turbocharger HX-40 T3 16 cm (item 260191799987 end time Dec-13-07 19:33:51 PST) so why dose it say preferred?

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by TurboAnything

eBay Motors: Cummins HX40 diesel Holset turbocharger HX-40 T3 16 cm (item 260191799987 end time Dec-13-07 19:33:51 PST) so why dose it say preferred?

The original add said 6 blade, I had to correct that seller and tell im the pic shows a 7 blde. He just happened to copy and paste the info from the 6 blade he did sell prior and then only chgd the 6 to a 7 after I e-mailed him. The 6 blade is the preferred setup.

[aero_sallee]

Originally Posted by ceedawg

The original add said 6 blade, I had to correct that seller and tell im the pic shows a 7 blde. He just happened to copy and paste the info from the 6 blade he did sell prior and then only chgd the 6 to a 7 after I e-mailed him. The 6 blade is the preferred setup.

I noticed that being a 7 blade when he still had it listed as a 6 blade too.

[Maglin]

Yes it's a modded BOV. Their is so much done to that car it's to much to list but it's powered by MSIIextra, built motor, DKS 272 cams, HX-35 in Bullseye TH. @ 26 PSI the 1G BOV is just the right size. No compressor stall . I wish I took more pics while I was building it but it wasn't my main concern. I wish I could find a HX52 compressor map. That is what I'm putting in my car to replace the HX35 this spring along with a new sequential injection & ignition MegaSquirt. Those pics where not even a finished product. I was testing stuff and still building wiring harness at that stage.

Matt I didn't see you mention that you have installed your Holset yet. ????

[JWoodley]

Originally Posted by Maglin

Yes it's a modded BOV. Their is so much done to that car it's to much to list but it's powered by MSIIextra, built motor, DKS 272 cams, HX-35 in Bullseye TH. @ 26 PSI the 1G BOV is just the right size. No compressor stall . I wish I took more pics while I was building it but it wasn't my main concern. I wish I could find a HX52 compressor map. That is what I'm putting in my car to replace the HX35 this spring along with a new sequential injection & ignition MegaSquirt. Those pics where not even a finished product. I was testing stuff and still building wiring harness at that stage.

Matt I didn't see you mention that you have installed your Holset yet. ????

Do you have any 1/8 or 1/4 times with this setup?

[ceedawg]

I should have followed my mind and bought new from Bullseye at almost close to the price I bought this for including the price for rebuilding it(well a little more from Bullseye actually).

Like I said it sux buying a used turbo. Bought this HX40 pro used on Ebay 310.00. Told that it would not arrive DOA.

I get it and the compressor outlet is full of caked up oil. Upon further inspection ,I take off the TH and out poors all the dirty black oil from the middle of the center cartridge.

Definitely not wrth it at the price I bought it for and for the lie that was advertised. To rebuild I was quoted 310.00. That's 620.00 + shipping which includes the price of the turbo. I might as well have bought this thing new.

Just a heads up to you guys who like buying these things used. Unless you get one for 100.00 it's not worth it IMOP getting these things used.

[dsm-onster]

Many have gotten these turbos used from ebay and had no issues. It's a shame. But it's chance you take.

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by dsm-onster

Many have gotten these turbos used from ebay and had no issues. It's a shame. But it's chance you take.

Unless you pay less than 100.00. It's 100% still not worth it. Wish I knew the many u r talking about and we r on the same forum.

You never know how long the used turb will last and it will cost 300.00 to rebuild. Get it for less than 100.00 then its a deal. Pay more than that and you need to rebuild ,you basically got ripped one whether it's one month ,two months, or three month's down the road!

[Maglin]

Oh... Sorry to hear about the bad deal... You can almost be assured that most HX35's will be in decent shap used as most dodge guys just replace it with a HX40. 40's are a definite risk cause they have probably spent a lot of time @ 50+ PSI.

I wish I had some time slips for the new car. It's a buddies car and I don't think it will ever see a drag strip. The tranny is stock and he is to worried about blowing it up. PFT..

On a very good note finances are looking good to get my HX52 build done this spring. I have another $4K in parts I need to source, but it's looking very promising right now. And I definitely will have some 1/4 times for mine as long as I can find someone around here to build me a cage.