300whp Spyder AWD: Drivetrain and Tuning quesitons

[Fmstrat]

So wasn't really sure where to post this, since it involves topics from a few different forums, so I picked here. It's a long post, sorry

I'm picking up a car next weekend to do an AWD conversion on my Spyder. I have a couple of questions about age of the tranny and some tuning issues I'd like to straighten out before doing the swap.

1) Drivetrain
The car is nearly bone stock, one owner, just has an intake cone and catback exhaust. Apparently it's been babied enough that at 166,000 miles, it still has the original clutch. I'm flying up to NJ from NC to buy it and drive back down, and the seller says it's in really good condition. I don't plan on putting down more than 300-325whp in the car, and have two questions:
a) I'm curious as to if I should consider any rebuild work on it simply because of it's age, even it if seems to be in real good shape.
b) I opened up my FWD tranny and installed a LSD insert, which I love. Should I consider doing this in the AWD tranny and potential diff with the power numbers I plan to put down, or will I not have any traction issues at those numbers? It's been a while since I owned an AWD dsm.


2) Tuning
I'd like to straighten out a couple of tuning issues first so I can do tuning on the FWD dyno that is close by. I currently have all the hardware on to be putting down 300-325whp. EVO3 16G, FMIC, 660's, dsmchip, 3" exhaust, etc. Went to the dyno and put down a measly 256whp. Here are the facts that I think are causing the issues:
a) FMIC is a starion with 2.25 inlet/outlet. I think it's limiting airflow due to my torque topping out at 290 at 4500rpm, then plummeting on every run at that RPM reguardless of boost pressure.
b) Stock intake pipe w/ cone. I'm not sure if this is effecting me at all, but I know that when I had one of the hoses disconnected behind the MAF, I got an extra 2psi out of the turbo without adjusting the boost controller. Could I have flow issues from the filter?
c) Timing looked "OK" on all runs (20psi, 22psi, 24psi). Normally on Second gear runs, timing climbs to 15, it only climbed to 13 on these 4th gear pulls.
d) No knock or "pulled timing" except a tiny bit on the 24psi pull.
e) I'm running EXTREMELY rich. This is of course due to lack of any fuel control other than the DSMchip that compensates for the 660's. The car has always ran really rich, even stock. I'm talking dipping down to like an 8.0 at 5000 RPM. I really think this is my biggest problem.

So, I'm thinking of a new FMIC setup, potentially aftermarket or DIY intake pipe, and an SAFC or Emanage (anyone want to recommend one over the other?) to supplement my dsmchip. Is there anything I'm missing? Or are any of those things potentially off-base?

Thanks!
Ben

 

[DiamondStarAwd]

With a a/f ratio like 8.0:1 your not going to make any power, that rich I would suspect you would buck up top from running so rich. I threw in 660's in my car without fuel control and would cut out from to much fuel.

You will be very very surprised what tuning can do. I can see you gaining 40-50 fwhp if you tune for 11.7:1 or around that area. Just be careful not to go to lean.

I would also check for boost leaks. When you pulled that line off, does the turbo always hold two more pounds or does it creep up two more pounds than normal.

 

[wvturbo2]

If you have time while the car is still fwd why not send the tranny off for a rebuild so you don't have to pull it off later. The Fmic is probably heat soaking and not flowing very well. Your right on target with what I would do. Get the intake and FMIC and since you have a chip for your ecu an Safc would work fine.

 

[Fmstrat]

Cool, some more facts:

f) I'm flowing 35lbs/min as per the datalog (which I can post later if they'll be of any help) so that's a good range
g) The FMIC was warm on the front after the runs.
h) Boost holds when set with the hose on
i) Boost creeped up 2psi, and settled back down with the hose off
j) No boost leaks. When pumped to 25psi, it sits there and SLOWLY releases to 0 psi. I'm guessing that's just air passing through the valves, or through the tire inflater I'm using, as spraying all joints with soapy water produces no bubbles.

I completely agree on tuning the richness out, I know that will make a huge difference. A friend of mine mentioned that an SAFC might not be the best option since if I lie to the ECU about there being less fuel, my timing will go up. How do you guys using SAFC's compensate for that?

Oh, as for tranny rebuild, I guess I'm asking if it needs to be done at all. I don't want to spend the money if I'm not going to have any issues at 300-325whp.

 

[99gst_racer]

I'm picking up a car next weekend to do an AWD conversion on my Spyder.

What year is it? And how much are you getting it for (if you don't mind me asking)?

1) Drivetrain
The car is nearly bone stock, one owner, just has an intake cone and catback exhaust. Apparently it's been babied enough that at 166,000 miles, it still has the original clutch. I'm flying up to NJ from NC to buy it and drive back down, and the seller says it's in really good condition. I don't plan on putting down more than 300-325whp in the car, and have two questions:
a) I'm curious as to if I should consider any rebuild work on it simply because of it's age, even it if seems to be in real good shape.

Consider? Yes, definitely. High mileage does a number on a tranny, even if it wasn't beaten on. I just did the AWD swap on my GST this past winter, and my donor car was a 95 GSX. It was the previous owner's bone stock daily driver for years, and it had 170K on the clock when I bought it. I, too, debated not having it rebuilt because I was short on cash. But I finally bit the bullet and took it to TRE. Upon pulling everything apart, I realized how happy I was to have made that decision. The first gear was worn very badly. As were the 3-4 hub and center differential. Had I installed it the way it was, it surely wouldn't have lasted very long.

Moral of the story: You don't really know the condition of the tranny until you pull it all apart. With that high of mileage, I would assume they are some pretty worn down parts in there, and I would opt to have it rebuilt just for piece of mind.

b) I opened up my FWD tranny and installed a LSD insert, which I love. Should I consider doing this in the AWD tranny and potential diff with the power numbers I plan to put down, or will I not have any traction issues at those numbers? It's been a while since I owned an AWD dsm.

Don't worry about the front diff. You're AWD now - traction at 300 WHP is a thing of the past. If you want to better your traction with AWD, focus more on the center diff. I opted to have mine welded (and I absolutely love it BTW) because my stocker was shot, but if you have a few extra bucks and a usable core, I'd recommend the 4-spider center diff.

 

[Fmstrat]

It's a 95 Talon Tsi AWD, for $3500. If I decided to take on the task of rebuilding myself (following the VFAQ), any idea of a good place to buy parts?

 

[Fmstrat]

Actually, I do have one other question. I currently have an ACT 2100 pressure plate/street disk in the FWD. Considering the HP number's I'll be putting down, will it be usable in AWD, or do I have to shell out the cash for a 2600?

Thanks!

 

[99gst_racer]

Actually, I do have one other question. I currently have an ACT 2100 pressure plate/street disk in the FWD. Considering the HP number's I'll be putting down, will it be usable in AWD, or do I have to shell out the cash for a 2600?

Thanks!

The ACT 2100 is perfect for a 300 WHP DSM.



<-------- I made this power on a 2100 and it held great. It was 3 years old and still didn't slip.

 

[Fmstrat]

Awesome, is there any info I can find on the actual power limitations of the 2100? I see all kinds of stuff about "minor mods" etc, but no numbers.

I'll pick up a new disk, but should I resurface the AWD flywheel? Guess I can't use my current lightened flywheel since it's for a FWD.

 

[99gst_racer]

Awesome, is there any info I can find on the actual power limitations of the 2100? I see all kinds of stuff about "minor mods" etc, but no numbers.

I'll pick up a new disk, but should I resurface the AWD flywheel? Guess I can't use my current lightened flywheel since it's for a FWD.

I would say the limit of the 2100 is somewhere around 330-360 ft/lbs of torque.

Either buy a new AWD flywheel, or have the stocker resurfaced. Make sure the step height is correct if you have it resurfaced though.

 

[Fmstrat]

Thanks for the info on the flywheel. Debating on if I want to go with a lighter one since I hear people say that your better off with the extra weight for launching on an AWD.

For anyone interested I talked to Jeff at dsmchips.com, and he thinks I may have an older chip without the revised fuel maps, which would explain my richness. Going to give that a shot first.

 

[Ludachris]

This thread isn't really directly about turbo systems so I'm moving it to a more general forum.

 

[Fmstrat]

Hrm, not sure this is really a newb topic either

Anyway, I talked to Jeff O. and he sent me another chip that had advanced timing and an 11.0 fuel map. Unfortunately, I'm still rich, and my timing looks to be about the same as it was.

I also looked back at my baseline runs, and they have the same rich point.

Could this be due to ignition? Or is it possible that my Apexi turbo timer/AF guage, which has been on since before my first baseline dyno run, could be effecting things in any way?