Switching from Eibach to H&R Springs

[romeen]

As the title suggests I am planning to switch from the Prokit to the H&R OE Sports. My question is are there any other suspension parts which I should consider replacing while I am doing this (eg- bumpstops, spring isolators, bushings, etc.)? I will be doing this in a couple weeks so if there are any parts which I need to have handy I would like to order them now so that I have everything I need when I start the work. I did not install the Prokits myself therefore I do not know if the bumpstops were cut shorter or not. If they were will that be compatible with the new springs?

FWIW, this is for a daily driver--no competitive racing. I will be using the new springs with the Tokico Illuminas which I have on the car now.

Any suggestions or other input you guys may have is appreciated.

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

The only thing I can think of is to make sure you check everything when you take it apart. You will know if it needs replaced. The only other thing I can think of is that the H&R springs are going to ride a lot stiffer than the Eibach one's. I recently switched from H&R to Eibach because of the stiff ride I didn't like.

 

[ceedawg]

As the title suggests I am planning to switch from the Prokit to the H&R OE Sports. My question is are there any other suspension parts which I should consider replacing while I am doing this (eg- bumpstops, spring isolators, bushings, etc.)? I will be doing this in a couple weeks so if there are any parts which I need to have handy I would like to order them now so that I have everything I need when I start the work. I did not install the Prokits myself therefore I do not know if the bumpstops were cut shorter or not. If they were will that be compatible with the new springs?

FWIW, this is for a daily driver--no competitive racing. I will be using the new springs with the Tokico Illuminas which I have on the car now.

Any suggestions or other input you guys may have is appreciated.

Not sure which Eibach's are the prokits but anyway, if you are going from Eibach to H&R on your car you r making a BIG MISTAKE!!! The Eibach's work much better on a 2g and have thicker coils than the H&R springs Been there done that.. I just can't remember if the sportline was the lowest one or the prokit. I definitely did not go with whichever model had the car sitting the lowest. Car handles and rides like a charm now and we have a similar setup. I also have polyurethane bushings.

 

[thekellbeast]

Sportlines drop the car worse. The Prokits are less of a drop.

 

[romeen]

Thanks for the responses guys. Hopefully I won't end up regretting this decision (like that's never happened before when modding my car ). Actually I am happy with the feel of the Prokit but the car is too low. Eibach claims that the drop should be about 1.3". However, mine ended up dropping more than that and has since sagged making it ride even lower now (they're not suppose to sag but mine did....maybe there is another issue causing this ). Anyway, that is the primary reason for the switch. For the OE Sports H&R claims a 1" drop, I'll soon find out how accurate that is as my springs arrive today. I am also hoping that the stiffer spring rates (especially for the rear) will help with traction when launching the car.

Any other input anyone may have is welcome and appreciated.

 

[No_Skillz]

I was always under the impression that HR springs dropped more than the Sportlines did? Eibach springs are usually good quality so this sagging issue might be due to something else. First find out if it's really the springs... no point wasting money.

Then, if you haven't ordered the HR, another option is Ground Control Adjustables: http://www.diamondstarmotorsport.com/suspensionparts_files/gccoiloverin-box.jpg

The price is a bit hefty, but you just can't go wrong. They use Eibach springs which you can get in different spring rates. I am currently using those with Tokico Illuminas and I like them. The only thing is that you need to set the rears a bit higher than the fronts or else the Illuminas in the rear have a tendency to blow (first hand experience). However, there's nothing to worry about since the Illuminas come with a lifetime warranty, provided you don't mind any downtime.

 

[ceedawg]

Thanks for the responses guys. Hopefully I won't end up regretting this decision (like that's never happened before when modding my car ). Actually I am happy with the feel of the Prokit but the car is too low. Eibach claims that the drop should be about 1.3". However, mine ended up dropping more than that and has since sagged making it ride even lower now (they're not suppose to sag but mine did....maybe there is another issue causing this ). Anyway, that is the primary reason for the switch. For the OE Sports H&R claims a 1" drop, I'll soon find out how accurate that is as my springs arrive today. I am also hoping that the stiffer spring rates (especially for the rear) will help with traction when launching the car.

Any other input anyone may have is welcome and appreciated.

Are you sure you were actually sent the prokit springs and not the sportline? My car has NO sagging issues with the prokit springs and actually sits alot higher than the garbage H&R's I had. Chk the part # on your springs. I have the same exact setup you have if you are infact using the prokit versions and your shocks are in excellent condition.

H&R's sag like hell! I did not sell them I threw them out. I find that the only cars they work well on in my opinion are BMW's. I have them on both of my E36 M3's and they are perfect actually better than the Eibach's I had on. The H&R's also seem to favor the 1g cars better. Yes on these cars the complete opposite. Weird but I've used both springs and pretty much know! The H&R's for the 1g are bigger and have fatter coils compared to the H&R's for the 2g. So they serve the 1g's well.

Here is a pic and my car has 17" rims:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[TSG59_Steve]

My car with Illumina's and Pro-kit:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Is yours lower then that?

 

[jtmcinder]

Please stop posting about "H&Rs" as if that were enough information to be useful. H&R makes several different springs for 2Gs with very different drops. Thanks.

If you don't know which H&Rs you had, then don't post at all. Double thanks.

- Jtoby

 

[romeen]

Are you sure you were actually sent the prokit springs and not the sportline? My car has NO sagging issues with the prokit springs and actually sits alot higher than the garbage H&R's I had. Chk the part # on your springs.

Here is a pic and my car has 17" rims:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

It's raining today so I can't really get under the car. However, the receipt which I still have clearly lists Prokit. Also the springs themselves are black which I believe is consistent with the Prokit. Looking at your picture, yes my car does sit a little lower than yours. Also, the back ended up dropping more than the front so that now the back and front are even instead of the back riding slightly higher like it's supposed to. I have read in some of jtmcinder's posts that this is important for proper handling.

My car with Illumina's and Pro-kit:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Is yours lower then that?

The gap between the tires and wheel well is a little bit less on mine. Distance from ground to side sill is 5 inches front and rear. Low enough that I scrape undercarriage on medium sized speed bumps if not careful.


I have also recently noticed a clunk noise that seems to be coming from the left front suspension. It makes the noise only once when I brake as if something is shifting from the change in momentum of the car. So if I am backing out of the garage and I stop it feels as if something shifts backwards and I hear the clunk and feel and slight thump. Then the first time I brake after going forward the same thing happens. Only recently started doing this. Otherwise the car drives fine. No unusual noises when turning. Ball joints were replaced in 2001 under the recall. Is there anything in particular I should look for when I have things apart for the swap?

If you guys think that I should start a new thread for this I will.

Again, thanks for the input.

 

[jtmcinder]

One other petty quibble: those posting pics (instead of measuring the gap from wheel center to fender lip) need to include the size of the tire. If I post pics of my car on 245/40/17s and 215/50/17s, you might think I changed the springs. Thanks.

And, yes, the tail should be higher than the nose to get a 2G to handle well. Technically, what you want is a higher rear roll center.

- Jtoby

 

[romeen]

One other petty quibble: those posting pics (instead of measuring the gap from wheel center to fender lip) need to include the size of the tire. If I post pics of my car on 245/40/17s and 215/50/17s, you might think I changed the springs. Thanks.

- Jtoby

Very good point. I am still on the stock 16" wheel with stock size 205/55/16 tires.

Jtoby, do you have any suggestions on things to focus on as far as the "clunking" that I previously mentioned?

To reiterate, the H&R's that I purchased are the OE Sports, not the plain Sports. The OE's have the smallest drop and lowest rates of the H&R line. For you guys who did not like the H&R's, are these the ones that you had?

 

[jtmcinder]

No specific ideas on the clunk. Jack up that corner and start yanking on things.

Also: how sure are you that OEs and OE Sports have different rates? I know the drop is different....

- Jtoby

 

[romeen]

Also: how sure are you that OEs and OE Sports have different rates? I know the drop is different....

- Jtoby

Actually I don't know for certain that they do have different rates. It seems as if I have read some of H&R's advertising that led me to believe that without actually knowing the spring rates. The rest was assumption on my part.....my bad. Again, good catch on your part.

I have found it difficult to come up with the actual spring rates from the manufacturers own literature. For anyone else reading this who is curious the rates that I have come up with from searching various sources are as follows:

Model Front Rear

Stock '97-'99 246 151
Eibach Prokit 330 160
H&R OE Sports 430 260

If anyone knows this to be incorrect please let me know.

Edit: Sorry those came up all stuck together, that's not the way I typed it up.

 

[romeen]

Hoefully this is easier to read.

Stock '97-'99
Front: 246
Rear: 151

Prokit
Front: 330
Rear: 160

OE Sport
Front: 430
Rear: 260

 

[jtmcinder]

OK. If anyone can toss a set of plain OEs on a spring tester and get us the rates, that would be nice.

- Jtoby

 

[TSG59_Steve]

My tires are 225/40 R18

 

[romeen]

Interesting. I just called H&R and was told that they will give me the rates for any of their springs EXCEPT for the Sport models.WTF

I've got my brand new OE Sports sitting in a box next to me right now but have no idea about how to go about getting them tested (is that what you meant when you said "plain OEs"?)

 

[ceedawg]

Please stop posting about "H&Rs" as if that were enough information to be useful. H&R makes several different springs for 2Gs with very different drops. Thanks.

If you don't know which H&Rs you had, then don't post at all. Double thanks.

- Jtoby

Who may I ask is this is being directed to? Just want to be clear.

I know which H&R's I had on my car and they were the sport springs and they were GARBAGE! The race springs are even worse. In the pic my car also has 225-45-17's all around which is in my public profile under personal info by the way for people to see.

The H&R's also made the ride on my car very hard and jiggly. I hated it. Now as I said b4 I find that the H&R springs form experience seemed to wrk better on the 1g cars in comparison. Of course for the 1g the H&R springs are a whole lot bigger than the 2g H&R's all around.

Also had the problem with scraping the bottom of the car on several occasions on different road obstructions.. This was with the Stck 16" setup and Stck tires.

 

[ceedawg]

My car with Illumina's and Pro-kit:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Is yours lower then that?

Very nice Steve!

 

[romeen]

I know which H&R's I had on my car and they were the sport springs and they were GARBAGE! The race springs are even worse.

So you had the Sport springs, not the OE Sports? According to H&R the Sport's drop the car 1.7" in the front and 1.4" in the rear. The OE Sports drop the car 1.0" front and rear.

 

[RamenPride]

Stock '97-'99 246 151
Eibach Prokit 330 160
H&R OE Sports 430 260

I highly doubt H&R OE Sports are 430/260. They're advertised as being 10-15% stiffer than stock, and 430/260 would be almost double the rate of stock springs.

 

[romeen]

For anyone who is interested, the swap went well. I measured from the center of each wheel to the bottom edge of the wheel well before and after the swap. The H&R's raised my car 1/2" at all four corners. I am very happy with them.

Subjectively they feel very similar to the Prokits as far as harshness over bumps (not bad at all). But the car feels more taut and IMO seems to handle better (nothing else was changed initially, Tokico's kept at 3 for first day). They do seem to be just a bit stiffer than the Prokits but the car feels tighter around the turns (and I haven't even had it aligned yet). Today set the Tokicos to 4 and pushed the car a little harder. Feels great. I don't know a whole lot about suspension but I would say that the Tokicos pair up pretty well with the OE Sports, better than I expected.

 

[jtmcinder]

The reason the car seems to be more responsive is you increased the front spring rate. You'd be amazed at the behavior of a 2G with 650# or stiffer fronts.

Ceedawg, this was an unacceptable post:

Not sure which Eibach's are the prokits but anyway, if you are going from Eibach to H&R on your car you r making a BIG MISTAKE!!! The Eibach's work much better on a 2g and have thicker coils than the H&R springs Been there done that.. I just can't remember if the sportline was the lowest one or the prokit. I definitely did not go with whichever model had the car sitting the lowest. Car handles and rides like a charm now and we have a similar setup. I also have polyurethane bushings.

It lacks detail, includes vague references to brands (without the model), and is highly misleading (since coil thickness is only one part of the springrate equation).

- Jtoby

 

[ceedawg]

The reason the car seems to be more responsive is you increased the front spring rate. You'd be amazed at the behavior of a 2G with 650# or stiffer fronts.

Ceedawg, this was an unacceptable post:


It lacks detail, includes vague references to brands (without the model), and is highly misleading (since coil thickness is only one part of the springrate equation).

- Jtoby

I can understand that but I thought I clarified which springs I had in this post.

Who may I ask is this is being directed to? Just want to be clear.

I know which H&R's I had on my car and they were the sport springs and they were GARBAGE! The race springs are even worse. In the pic my car also has 225-45-17's all around which is in my public profile under personal info by the way for people to see.

The H&R's also made the ride on my car very hard and jiggly. I hated it. Now as I said b4 I find that the H&R springs form experience seemed to wrk better on the 1g cars in comparison. Of course for the 1g the H&R springs are a whole lot bigger than the 2g H&R's all around.

Also had the problem with scraping the bottom of the car on several occasions on different road obstructions.. This was with the Stck 16" setup and Stck tires.