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Guys/Gals? Just wanted to start up new thread for an OPEN 14b Drag Race Discussion. The "history" thread seems to be heading in this direction, and as much as I enjoy talking 14b, I meant for that thread to be DSM-wide rather than focus on one bracket. So, let's do it! Anything 14b: history, specs, stats, set-ups, people, timeslips, ET, MPH, suspension set-ups, and on and on....
Ok, I'll throw the first lines out there:
I would say Marc Hallman was the first guy to gain notoriety for 1/4 mile ET on the stock turbo. It read 12.57@109 in Turbo Magazine, but as we saw Jose(ArticTSi0 throw up that list of ETs from that shootout in '95 I think, it was 12.57@108.9, to be correct. I say, the stock turbo interest starts there, everyone agree?
14b power.....underestimated is an understatement
____________________________
60' 1.48
ET 11.49
MPH 116.85
14b power!
This thread is overdue, and as much 14b chat Phil does, i'm surprised he held
off this long! Well down to business. About five min ago i found my old slips while searching to update the 14b list as Phil requested in another thread and it was as follows. My old car 1993 TSI AWD 5speed 14b stats:
March 2004 @ Capitol Raceway Crofton, MD
60': 1.687(one of my better ones but not my best)
1/8 E/T: 7.871
1/8 mph: 87.08
1/4 E/T: 12.422
1/4 mph:108.06
Mods:
Engine: Stock '93 7bolt with 150,000 original miles
Trans: Stock 5 speed with ACT 2100
Fuel: RC 550cc injectors with 2g maf & Wally 255 HP pump
Exhaust: ported 2G mani, ported7cm turbine, 2.5" turboback
Intake: Dejon air intake w/ K&N
Intercooler: Supra Sidemount with 2 1/4" piping
Suspension: Eibach Prokit, KYB GR2 front struts and KYB AGX rear shocks
Tuning: Pocketlogger and SAFC
Fuel: 100oct, 112oct & C16 @18-24 psi
My current 1992 Laser RS-T AWD 5speed 14b stats:
November 2009 @ Mason Dixon Dragway Hagerstown, MD
60': 1.920 (spinning bad due to unavoidable wet box)
1/8 E/T: 8.224
1/8 mph: 85.99
1/4 E/T: 12.699
1/4 mph: 110.44
Mods:
Engine: Stock '92 6bolt with 107,000 miles and 100-110 psi across the board
Trans: rebuilt stock trans from 91 awd dsm with ACT2100
Fuel: 550cc injectors with 2G maf, wally 255 HP pump
Exhaust: ported 2g exhaust mani, ported 7cm turbine, 3" turboback
Intake: Dejon air intake w/ K&N
Intercooler: Punishement racing FMIC kit with 2.5" piping
Suspension: stock
Tuning: NONE
Fuel: C16 or 112 at 18-22psi
____________________________
11.36@130 on HX35 BEPbolt on
12.42 @ 113 on 14b
stock suspension and winter treads - w/o launch control.
should be easy to kill in a car weighing a thousand pounds less lol...
12.3 in the VR4 is movin......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooberlog
This thread is overdue, and as much 14b chat Phil does, i'm surprised he held
off this long! Well down to business. About five min ago i found my old slips while searching to update the 14b list as Phil requested in another thread and it was as follows. My old car 1993 TSI AWD 5speed 14b stats:
March 2004 @ Capitol Raceway Crofton, MD
60': 1.687(one of my better ones but not my best)
1/8 E/T: 7.871
1/8 mph: 87.08
1/4 E/T: 12.422
1/4 mph:108.06
Mods:
Engine: Stock '93 7bolt with 150,000 original miles
Trans: Stock 5 speed with ACT 2100
Fuel: RC 550cc injectors with 2g maf & Wally 255 HP pump
Exhaust: ported 2G mani, ported7cm turbine, 2.5" turboback
Intake: Dejon air intake w/ K&N
Intercooler: Supra Sidemount with 2 1/4" piping
Suspension: Eibach Prokit, KYB GR2 front struts and KYB AGX rear shocks
Tuning: Pocketlogger and SAFC
Fuel: 100oct, 112oct & C16 @18-24 psi
My current 1992 Laser RS-T AWD 5speed 14b stats:
November 2009 @ Mason Dixon Dragway Hagerstown, MD
60': 1.920 (spinning bad due to unavoidable wet box)
1/8 E/T: 8.224
1/8 mph: 85.99
1/4 E/T: 12.699
1/4 mph: 110.44
Mods:
Engine: Stock '92 6bolt with 107,000 miles and 100-110 psi across the board
Trans: rebuilt stock trans from 91 awd dsm with ACT2100
Fuel: 550cc injectors with 2G maf, wally 255 HP pump
Exhaust: ported 2g exhaust mani, ported 7cm turbine, 3" turboback
Intake: Dejon air intake w/ K&N
Intercooler: Punishement racing FMIC kit with 2.5" piping
Suspension: stock
Tuning: NONE
Fuel: C16 or 112 at 18-22psi
Awesome! Let's see if you get another chance this year....I think we should add your laser to the list though as that's the car you'll be furthering with.....even if it's the 12.69 for this year.........
____________________________
60' 1.48
ET 11.49
MPH 116.85
14b power!
Last edited by Phil1320; 11-25-2009 at 01:34 PM.
Reason: Auto-merged with previous post to prevent "bumping"
This is the set up that I will be running for the 2010 season.
Engine
9:1 Wiseco Pistons
Crower Steel Rods
Eagle 100mm Crank
Kiggly Main Girdle
Head Work/Porting
Kiggly Valve Springs
FP 3 Camshafts
Standard ARP's
Piston to Head Clearance = .04
Piston to Wall Clearance = .0055
Ring Gaps = .018
= .019
Drivetrain
AWD Auto/AWD MT Differential Swap
Road Surge Shift Box
Stock converter and axles
Bogart wheels with 24x10.5 M/T slicks
Engine Management
All AEM
Fuel
Aeromotive Atomic Mechanical
Injectors ???
And every little thing in between.
Race weight is predicted at 2500 LBS, but the goal is as light as possible.
The boost pressure should be kept around 21 PSI, We may raise the pressure but at that point the compressor is flowing the most air possible and higher pressures will just be heating the air with out flowing more air to make it worth while.
____________________________
Morgan
Nothin's Finer Than A Pipeliner
United Association Local 464
Awesome! Let's see if you get another chance this year....I think we should add your laser to the list though as that's the car you'll be furthering with.....even if it's the 12.69 for this year.........
Well i guess lets see what happens on Sunday and if i better the 12.42 than we will forget about that time. If not hmm, faster is always better. I could use the 12.42 i did back in march of 2004 and then update it once the laser beats that time.
____________________________
11.36@130 on HX35 BEPbolt on
12.42 @ 113 on 14b
It's funny how the 14b "quests" used to be all about budget. Not anymore! It's amazing to see a mod list like the one above going into a 14b setup. I'd love to list a bit about my old 14b car, but unfortunately it never made it to the strip so I'll list the most current.
1990 Eagle Talon TSI AWD
Approx 150lbs of weight loss (give or take)
Ported SBR cast manifold (1st generation)
14b w/7cm ported turbine housing
Custom 2.5" O2 housing (open dump)
3" punishment downpipe - VRS 3" test - 3" megan catback
Stock SMIC w/stock piping
stock 6 bolt motor
Buschur MBC set at 14psi
Stock gst 5 spokes and cruddy all seasons
stock suspension/bushings/motor mounts minus GR-2 front struts
Walbro 255lph hp pump
custom hard intake pipe w/hacked 1g maf & K&N filter
SuperSecret Built transmission (double syncroes, welded diff, etc)
ACT 2600 w/stock flywheel
Met my goal this year of just making it to the drag strip and getting a 13 second pass (setup described as above) details:
1.811 60ft
8.238 1/8 ET
86.20 1/8 mph
13.614 1/4 ET
93.37 1/4 mph
I missed 4th gear on that pass.
The next pass I blew the oil line off my gauge and spun a bearing in the bottom end.
2010 Plans/Goals
Replace the bearings and probably crank. If other things look bad probably 2g pistons going in.
DSMLink V2.5 (already purchased)
Approx 21psi
a whole lot more track time
Diet plan
Wish list for 2010
Motor mounts
some new bushings (rear subframe and mustache are a must)
FMIC (I have an evo fmic standing by, would have to fab piping)
Wideband and injectors for E-85
GOALS:
Breaking into the 12's will be the first goal, should be easy enough if I can get it to the track in running order. The next goal (if not broken) will be 12.5 or better. The major goal for the car is to break the 11 second barrier keeping it on the budget mindset I have. If I get there, I might make a run at mid 11's eventually.
____________________________
Shane Webster 1990 14b Talon AWD
SBstar, i saw you picked up LINK and before that you said you were running a hacked 1g maf. I'm not sure what all dsmlink can do to help but, i know around 16+ psi on the hacked 1g maf i would hit fuel cut and that is when i had to swap in the 2g maf and 550 injectors. If your planning on running E-85 though i'm sure your injectors will be 1000cc or larger so maybe when your fabbing up some IC pipes for the EVO FMIC you could plan to run a 3" GM maf and get the cable from dsmlink so that you don't have to buy a translator for it. Just a couple ideas to consider for the next set up on the car. Depending on weather you ran the GM maf (if you went that route)in the UICP or the air intake would also determine what style air intake you switched to. Good luck. Weight reduction is key!
____________________________
11.36@130 on HX35 BEPbolt on
12.42 @ 113 on 14b
SBstar, i saw you picked up LINK and before that you said you were running a hacked 1g maf. I'm not sure what all dsmlink can do to help but, i know around 16+ psi on the hacked 1g maf i would hit fuel cut and that is when i had to swap in the 2g maf and 550 injectors. If your planning on running E-85 though i'm sure your injectors will be 1000cc or larger so maybe when your fabbing up some IC pipes for the EVO FMIC you could plan to run a 3" GM maf and get the cable from dsmlink so that you don't have to buy a translator for it. Just a couple ideas to consider for the next set up on the car. Depending on weather you ran the GM maf (if you went that route)in the UICP or the air intake would also determine what style air intake you switched to. Good luck. Weight reduction is key!
Kind of forgot to add that I plan to put in a 2g maf for 2010. The plan is to upgrade to V3 and run speed density after that. I've been down the weight reduction road before, check out the tech articles lol.
____________________________
Shane Webster 1990 14b Talon AWD
Well i guess lets see what happens on Sunday and if i better the 12.42 than we will forget about that time. If not hmm, faster is always better. I could use the 12.42 i did back in march of 2004 and then update it once the laser beats that time.
If you use the 12.42, I would list it under your Laser, just because of the way he has the list set up. It will make it easier to update next year......if you don't beat it this year, I bet you're closer than 12.69......
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBstar
It's funny how the 14b "quests" used to be all about budget. Not anymore! It's amazing to see a mod list like the one above going into a 14b setup.
GOALS:
Breaking into the 12's will be the first goal, should be easy enough if I can get it to the track in running order. The next goal (if not broken) will be 12.5 or better. The major goal for the car is to break the 11 second barrier keeping it on the budget mindset I have. If I get there, I might make a run at mid 11's eventually.
Yeah, that's a pretty big mod list to say the least. I don't even know what to reply to it. It seems like a build list for a 42R or something. Yes, I agree it's no budget build. Hey, whatever works I guess. I will still take the budget approach, although I've added some parts over the years that were not exactly, "cheap." But, I do it over a long period of time. To be able to just lay it all on the table in one shot like that is crazy. I've enjoyed the gradual progression over the years and I like to see that on paper. None of that is happening for guys like the above. I believe a serious set-up like that is what it will take to even come close to beating Joe's 10.84 record though. English Racing went 10.6 in an AUTO 16G powered car with meth I'm pretty sure, so they still have their work cut out. With mods like that, the car better RUN. I wish them all luck.....I see what type of mods they've got, I'm sure all the other "contenders" will be running similar set-ups, so we'll see. Running methanol brings a whole new segment to it.
I'm sure you'll hit your goals next year. You had a failure unfortunately, it was out of your hands. Once your beast is reliable again, you will improve quickly I'm sure. No doubt you'll be able to hit 11's......the budget way.....
Anyway.......I'll just keep chipping away adding a bit here and a bit there as I always have. No matter what all the others do, I'll never be able to act immediately with such big set ups, nor do I think I'm interested in that for myself.
____________________________
60' 1.48
ET 11.49
MPH 116.85
14b power!
Last edited by Phil1320; 11-26-2009 at 04:31 AM.
Reason: Auto-merged with previous post to prevent "bumping"
I'm sure you'll hit your goals next year. You had a failure unfortunately, it was out of your hands. Once your beast is reliable again, you will improve quickly I'm sure. No doubt you'll be able to hit 11's......the budget way.....
Anyway.......I'll just keep chipping away adding a bit here and a bit there as I always have. No matter what all the others do, I'll never be able to act immediately with such big set ups, nor do I think I'm interested in that for myself.
Yeah, I learned my lesson about the stock line that comes with oil pressure gauges though So I guess I do consider it my fault. From watching what you've done I know 11's will be possible over time, chipping away at it as you say. I guess to me it's nice to see that progression. I'd love to be able to just drop a ton of money on it and take off gunning for a record, but for guys like us, it'll be that slow progression towards the ultimate goal. The positive thing is we'll be around long after those guys are gone. Or at least I think we've proven we will be. No offense to them of course, they'll move onto bigger more powerful setups.
____________________________
Shane Webster 1990 14b Talon AWD
If/when I get back into this fray, it's going to be the old school budget way. Not to say that you can get the record back with a $1500 mod list, but IMHO you certainly don't need a built race motor and giant cams to work with a turbo that's out of steam by 6000rpm to barely make 300hp.
When I get started, Im going to do a full budget breakdown again just like I did for the $2004 GRM race. It also will be going along the build blog like project goodwill.
I'm anticipating it being all used parts on a stock engine. Swap my nitrous kit & hoosiers from my GVR4.
As for the trans: stock manual dsm tranny w/ welded diff and stock 4bolt rear. I'm not sure how the auto guys are going to get 1.4's out of an auto AND make an extra 40-50hp to make up for the extra weight and power loss. At this wimpy 14b power level I just can't see any driveline breakage or shifting speed/spool efficiency gain being worth it.
Yeah, I learned my lesson about the stock line that comes with oil pressure gauges though So I guess I do consider it my fault. From watching what you've done I know 11's will be possible over time, chipping away at it as you say. I guess to me it's nice to see that progression. I'd love to be able to just drop a ton of money on it and take off gunning for a record, but for guys like us, it'll be that slow progression towards the ultimate goal. The positive thing is we'll be around long after those guys are gone. Or at least I think we've proven we will be. No offense to them of course, they'll move onto bigger more powerful setups.
Don't be too hard on yourself, just move toward the future! Yeah, I'd imagine we will be around long after they've done what they want to in this arena.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Crisman
If/when I get back into this fray, it's going to be the old school budget way. Not to say that you can get the record back with a $1500 mod list, but IMHO you certainly don't need a built race motor and giant cams to work with a turbo that's out of steam by 6000rpm to barely make 300hp.
When I get started, Im going to do a full budget breakdown again just like I did for the $2004 GRM race. It also will be going along the build blog like project goodwill.
I'm anticipating it being all used parts on a stock engine. Swap my nitrous kit & hoosiers from my GVR4.
As for the trans: stock manual dsm tranny w/ welded diff and stock 4bolt rear. I'm not sure how the auto guys are going to get 1.4's out of an auto AND make an extra 40-50hp to make up for the extra weight and power loss. At this wimpy 14b power level I just can't see any driveline breakage or shifting speed/spool efficiency gain being worth it.
I assumed that would be the route you'd take and that should be enough. I'm not sure about the AUTO trans stuff either, but I don't know much about them anyway and don't care to. I've always been about driving, deciding when I'm going to shift, not some damn computer. Hell, that's why it took me so long to put a chip in with the stutterbox. I never wanted any computer aids helping me. For sure, the stutterbox worked, and if I was competing, for sure, I'd want it no doubt, but, it's not neccesary to run fast. It's biggest selling point for me was the ability to build boost on the line. I've always been able to hold RPM no problem on the line though. If there are guys out there shifting their cars to better ET's than auto cars are with similar set-ups, then I don't see the point. Not to mention the runs look pretty uneventful minus the launch, and the sound is not the same. BUT, if these guys make it work, then props to them, if they are cool with a computer shifting the car instead of them. I say, anyone can push a throttle pedal to the floor and hang on, there's no skill involved, at all. Shifting properly, and at the right time, is a different story. I realize some cars rev so fast that a shift light is needed, but the driver is still responsible for making it happen.
____________________________
60' 1.48
ET 11.49
MPH 116.85
14b power!
Last edited by Phil1320; 11-26-2009 at 09:13 AM.
Reason: Auto-merged with previous post to prevent "bumping"
You know Phil i feel the same way about this when i talk to my buddy that races his Grand National. I tell him he mine as well go get a cup of coffee to enjoy at the track while he does his stab and steer run.
____________________________
11.36@130 on HX35 BEPbolt on
12.42 @ 113 on 14b
You know Phil i feel the same way about this when i talk to my buddy that races his Grand National. I tell him he mine as well go get a cup of coffee to enjoy at the track while he does his stab and steer run.
I understand it all from a breakage standpoint I suppose, but, not for much else. We have local guys pulling Manual Trannies out of their '03 Mustang Cobras.....ruining the car in my opinion.
Everyone has their own route and that's cool. I'd like to see what the AT cars will do. But, Nate had a point about how much power they soak up, I wasn't even thinking about it in that respect.
I guess one thing I look forward to at the strip is being able to shift gears, that's all......you know I like the roadracing stuff as well, and not that you can't roadrace an AT car, but, it's the downshifting and rev matching that I love to become more proficient at. Now, not that I wouldn't like to have a new GTR to run the roadcourse in, but, again, it's rev matching downshifts for you. It's just getting away from the fundamentals of driving that I enjoy.
But, we are here talking about running record 14b timeslips, in the end, it doesn't matter how you get there, it just matters how quick you did, I suppose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonman
This is the set up that I will be running for the 2010 season.
Engine
9:1 Wiseco Pistons
Crower Steel Rods
Eagle 100mm Crank
Kiggly Main Girdle
Head Work/Porting
Kiggly Valve Springs
FP 3 Camshafts
Standard ARP's
Piston to Head Clearance = .04
Piston to Wall Clearance = .0055
Ring Gaps = .018
= .019
Drivetrain
AWD Auto/AWD MT Differential Swap
Road Surge Shift Box
Stock converter and axles
Bogart wheels with 24x10.5 M/T slicks
Engine Management
All AEM
Fuel
Aeromotive Atomic Mechanical
Injectors ???
And every little thing in between.
Race weight is predicted at 2500 LBS, but the goal is as light as possible.
The boost pressure should be kept around 21 PSI, We may raise the pressure but at that point the compressor is flowing the most air possible and higher pressures will just be heating the air with out flowing more air to make it worth while.
When I first saw your mod list here, I didn't even know what to say. I kinda still don't It looks like it should run. Some of it is gibberish to me, but that's ok, I don't need to understand it all, your specs I mean. I would imagine with the AEM you should be able to extract maximum HP from your set up. Race weight of 2500 is definitely doable, depending on the weight of the driver of course. FP3 cams huh? I don't think the need for all you listed is there, so this is a build with ONLY the 14b in mind? Eagle Crank?
I wish you luck and am very interested in seeing what you can do.
I must say though, if Joe Bucci's Laser is/was Project Goodwill, your car must be dubbed, Project Overkill
All jokes aside, I hope you can hit your goal!
____________________________
60' 1.48
ET 11.49
MPH 116.85
14b power!
Last edited by Phil1320; 11-27-2009 at 05:46 AM.
Reason: Auto-merged with previous post to prevent "bumping"
Well, since you posted it up there, is that a Wiseco thing? I find that number to be huge. Seems like slap city.
MB
You are right the clearance is pretty loose for the application, the engine was being built to run much higher HP numbers. I have found that Wiseco's like to run a little loose though (when compared to other pistons). One thing to note is that the pistons I am using are "stroker" pistons and I usually recommend a tighter clearance when using these pistons due to, the shorter skirts and the higher side loads.
There are many of variables that were taken into account for the P2W clearance in this engine (Fuel used, Cylinder wall thickness, Rod Ratio). From my experience the clearance will work just fine but I will not know 100% intill I tear down the engine for evaluation after the racing season.
Yeah Phil the car can be viewed as a little extreme because most 14b applications are based on going fast for cheap, but I want to literally demolish the current 14b record. I tell customers who want their engines built that it has to be all out or not at all, no cheap parts, replace everything. We will be doing a lot testing and experimenting with different camshafts and heads this season. We hope to get it damn near perfect by the ShootOut, we really want to wait to reveal our best time when we are at the SO and make some runs to back up the time.
____________________________
Morgan
Nothin's Finer Than A Pipeliner
United Association Local 464
Nate, I definately applaud your goal to attempt a record run on a budget. That's how I started with my Talon when I first got it.
I bought my Talon used in 2002. It was bone stock, no mods at all. I was making payments on it so I couldn't afford to mod it much, but I had 'boost fever' really bad. The short story is that I ran 12.89 @108 just four months after I got it, and it had about $750 worth of mods on it. Even better, I just happen to line up against and killed one of the new (at the time) 2003 Cobras on that run, and those came with a supercharger and 390HP, one of the hottest cars at the time.
I did as many free mods as I could since I couldn't buy much, and even made up a few new free mods. The first time I hit 12's the car had a used 3" exhaust with a 3" cat, Hallman MBC @ 21psi, KN filter, no aircan, hacked maf, home depot 3" intake, used Denso 190 pump, NT FPR that was crushed to hold a few extra psi, $20 worth of race gas, used ACT2600, pocketlogger, some weight reduction (rear seats, spare, jack, tools), and self ported ex mani-turbo-O2 housing. Stock smic, stock injectors, stock phantom-knocking-to-death engine, stock suspension and mismatched tires on stock rims. Jeez I've come a long way since then!
Tom Stangl (Mr. VFAQ) was a major source of inspiration for me at the time. He lived nearby and told me about his quest to a 12 second timeslip. It was a long time ago, but I remember that he had even less mods than me, partly because his car was still newish and still had the stock clutch and a good fuel pump, and he touched a 12.99. I was amazed! To hit 12's on a car that was still considered 'stock'!
It's more of a challenge to go fast on a tight budget, but it's also suprising how creative you can get when your faced with those restrictions. And creativity can make a car go faster than buying expensive parts.
____________________________
11.51- 14b
10.48- 16G
10.11 @143.49MPH on a GT35
It's more of a challenge to go fast on a tight budget, but it's also suprising how creative you can get when your faced with those restrictions. And creativity can make a car go faster than buying expensive parts.
Quote of the 14b thread!
Pneumo your car is a source of amazement for me as well, hitting 11's with so many parts left stock is bewildering. I still have the photo's you posted of the engine bay from back then. I try to save all that kind of stuff. Overall I think your car truly showed how much can be done through tuning properly.
____________________________
Shane Webster 1990 14b Talon AWD
Pneumo your car is a source of amazement for me as well, hitting 11's with so many parts left stock is bewildering. I still have the photo's you posted of the engine bay from back then. I try to save all that kind of stuff. Overall I think your car truly showed how much can be done through tuning properly.
Thanks! I'm still amazed too! I hit 11.69 with stock injectors, stock intercooler, stock IC piping, and other stuff. I'm sure if I pushed it I could've dropped the time a little more with those mods, but I had upgrades sitting on the shelf and the season was coming to an end, so I swapped those parts right after the 11.69 run.
____________________________
11.51- 14b
10.48- 16G
10.11 @143.49MPH on a GT35
I've witnessed this car in action and saw the 11.4 run first hand. Dave came out to the track with the smallest turbo on his DSM and ran the fastest time out of all of them.
Your 14b "record" has by far been the most impressive. Anyone who has seen Daves car knows its nothing close to a tin can and he drove this think a few hrs back and forth to the track. No trailer queens here. Dave has been my main inspiration for a long time.
On a side note, we are trying to get my Raven build ready for the beginning of next season Dave so we will be calling you to check it out bro. I'll be running a bolt on 62-1 before I head for the s400sx 75mm. You'll be hearing from us. Eddie is chasing gremlins and I'm sure you'll be the first guy on the list when he's done.
Yeah Phil the car can be viewed as a little extreme because most 14b applications are based on going fast for cheap, but I want to literally demolish the current 14b record. I tell customers who want their engines built that it has to be all out or not at all. We will be doing a lot testing and experimenting with different camshafts and heads this season. We hope to get it damn near perfect by the ShootOut, we really want to wait to reveal our best time when we are at the SO and make some runs to back up the time.
I was purely joking around! But, I hear what you're saying, if you can go out fully armed, why not do that. You have a short term, but, huge goal. It will be interesting to hear what combination serves you best. I understand if you don't want to reveal your numbers til the shootout, keep everyone guessing where you might stand. Whelp, again, it will be nice to see you hit 10.60 or better, that would be nuts. It just sucks that we all will have to wait til the later part of the year to hear of your progress. OK, go get it
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBstar
Quote of the 14b thread!
Pneumo your car is a source of amazement for me as well, hitting 11's with so many parts left stock is bewildering. I still have the photo's you posted of the engine bay from back then. I try to save all that kind of stuff. Overall I think your car truly showed how much can be done through tuning properly.
True, true.......then I guess my car truly showed how much can be done with no tuning You know, I honestly wish I was as savvy as some of these guys, pneumo, spoonman with a shop and such to boot. I'm just not that guy. I suppose I could be so far ahead of where I am if I was. Bummer. I guess I need my own 14b team of engineers. I guess I'm more of a "you guys build it, and I'll drive it" kinda guy these days. Although, other than me, myself, and I, the only other person to have a hand in it is Dave, further exhibiting my point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneumo
Thanks! I'm still amazed too! I hit 11.69 with stock injectors, stock intercooler, stock IC piping, and other stuff. I'm sure if I pushed it I could've dropped the time a little more with those mods, but I had upgrades sitting on the shelf and the season was coming to an end, so I swapped those parts right after the 11.69 run.
Most definitely impressive, correct me if I'm wrong though, this was your upgraded/built engine right? Just trying to clarify?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSimage
I've witnessed this car in action and saw the 11.4 run first hand. Dave came out to the track with the smallest turbo on his DSM and ran the fastest time out of all of them.
Your 14b "record" has by far been the most impressive. Anyone who has seen Daves car knows its nothing close to a tin can and he drove this think a few hrs back and forth to the track. No trailer queens here. Dave has been my main inspiration for a long time.
On a side note, we are trying to get my Raven build ready for the beginning of next season Dave so we will be calling you to check it out bro. I'll be running a bolt on 62-1 before I head for the s400sx 75mm. You'll be hearing from us. Eddie is chasing gremlins and I'm sure you'll be the first guy on the list when he's done.
11.4 run? ~11.51~
No doubt, Dave's car has run impressive numbers on the 14b. I'm glad he's an inspiration to you. I have a few of those guys out there too. And as stated elsewhere, he himself is a great part of that effort in that he has not only the ability to tune his own machine, he has the ability to do it run after run at the strip, which enables him to see almost immediately if whatever changes he makes work. That is a serious advantage compared to someone like me that can push a few buttons on an AFC and hope I made the right adjustment, or I need to get on a dyno to prove it. Dave is as close to a one man show I think that I know of in this respect. It is admirable. I wish I had his skills.
My car is a tin can, whatever you want to call it. I have been pulling weight for years. I finally decided that the car was no longer fun for road use, and was contradicting my goals so I pulled it off the road and took the "tin can" approach to the next level. I don't see how my runs can not be considered to be as equally impressive as Dave's. Now, this is me tooting my own horn, because I feel pretty strongly about this. I'm not sure you know all the details of my car vs. his and there are too many to list. But a few would be:
I'm running 11.4 with less than 300 HP at the wheels
My engine is 100% original with balance shafts and stock 7.8:1 comp ratio
My lb. per HP ratio rivals some of the worlds most expensive supercars.
And, before I took the car to where it is now, I can tell you that I've driven to and from the strip numerous times running countless 12.0-12.2 slips and that was years ago. So, I've been there and done that, so I do respect that about Dave's car.
"Your 14b "record" has by far been the most impressive."
"its nothing close to a tin can"
I hear you loud and clear.
____________________________
60' 1.48
ET 11.49
MPH 116.85
14b power!
Last edited by Phil1320; 11-29-2009 at 10:05 AM.
Reason: Auto-merged with previous post to prevent "bumping"
No doubt, Dave's car has run impressive numbers on the 14b. I'm glad he's an inspiration to you. I have a few of those guys out there too. And as stated elsewhere, he himself is a great part of that effort in that he has not only the ability to tune his own machine, he has the ability to do it run after run at the strip, which enables him to see almost immediately if whatever changes he makes work. That is a serious advantage compared to someone like me that can push a few buttons on an AFC and hope I made the right adjustment, or I need to get on a dyno to prove it. Dave is as close to a one man show I think that I know of in this respect. It is admirable. I wish I had his skills.
My car is a tin can, whatever you want to call it. I have been pulling weight for years. I finally decided that the car was no longer fun for road use, and was contradicting my goals so I pulled it off the road and took the "tin can" approach to the next level. I don't see how my runs can not be considered to be as equally impressive as Dave's. Now, this is me tooting my own horn, because I feel pretty strongly about this. I'm not sure you know all the details of my car vs. his and there are too many to list. But a few would be:
I'm running 11.4 with less than 300 HP at the wheels
My engine is 100% original with balance shafts and stock 7.8:1 comp ratio
My lb. per HP ratio rivals some of the worlds most expensive supercars.
And, before I took the car to where it is now, I can tell you that I've driven to and from the strip numerous times running countless 12.0-12.2 slips and that was years ago. So, I've been there and done that, so I do respect that about Dave's car.
"Your 14b "record" has by far been the most impressive."
"its nothing close to a tin can"
I hear you loud and clear.
My comment had NO bearing or link on your car bro, I have no idea why you are so defensive but its Sunday, a day of rest.. Please allow time to remove the sand from your vagina. My post was 100% about giving props to Dave for doing something not even the Goodwill car achieved. My point was to imagine if his car was tin canned out how fast it would have been, I have no doubt he could go for the record and take it if he wants, and thats with out the Haltec ecu and water to air that the GW project needed. This is what makes his car more impressive to me, and thats from a personal view because just like people agree its more impressive to build a fast car on a budget, even more impressive than that is to build a fast STREET car that can do the same which has and will always be my goal. I've been both routes, I just prefer one over the other due to extra difficulty and the ability to cruise unknown on the street toying with people.
And he has been back and forth to the track with a mid 11s car, you haven't been there done that, I've been back and forth with a 10s dd car, I HAVE been there done that and can assure you that it takes a lot of confidence to have a car that fast that you can trust on long road trips. And I have rarely seen Dave pull out the lap top after runs, actually I have never seen him do that. He checks his logger and hits a few AFC buttons just as you stated and tries the next race.
Again, my post wasn't directed towards you nor had anything to do with your car. I didn't know this entire thread was about you.. The last few post were directed towards Dave and I was just about to PM him about stuff and figured I'd throw it in here as well as shedding some light on how impressive his accomplishments have been.
This man was dogging mid 10s runs on a regular ancient GT35 non ball bearing turbo on a junkyard block. This was the same time I was toying with my 35R trying to get it into the 10s on only pump in a street car. We both had some great goals we got to accomplish together. Once again, Dave's probably my biggest inspiration in the game, I've gone faster but the way he has done it is beyond me and one day I hope to have his knowledge to apply to my loftier goals. He's a very meek man and he never toots his own horn so I figured I'd ring the bell for him.
Once again, I have no idea why you felt the need to post all of that. I wasn't referring to your car, I really don't even know the specifics of your build for me to even comment on it but regardless of that if you are proud of what you have accomplished f'k anyone else who has something negative to say about it. There will always be people who prefer things a different way. I can definitely respect what you have accomplished. My achievements with my TO4B V trim and my 35r build were all on a 100% bone stock motor from head to toe. 7.8 compression and all, and a majority of the people in this section of the board have a power to weight ratio that would obliterate most super cars, that's the name of the game when it comes to racing. Then again there is no super car made for drag racing, when you can out turn one in a DSM I'll be greatly impressed. No I'm not knocking your accomplishments and I'm not sure if you're upset because you feel you accomplished more than Dave, I dunno. But as I said, to some people various aspects of building a car make it more impressive. There is no doubt in my mind after seeing Dave's logs that if his 14b wouldn't have gone to sh*ts that he would be even deeper into the 11s with nothing else touched on the car. Then take into account the hundreds of lbs of weight he could save on the car as well as the fact he runs street tires, not drag/street slicks, but straight up street tires, it just seems like a great feat.
So again, I wasn't bashing your car, nor discrediting what you have accomplished, albeit with the help of Dave anyways, but I was simply giving him credit in a thread dedicated to 14b drag cars, if I know it was a thread about Phils car I would have maybe worded it differently. Oh and don't get overly offended by the video, its called a joke, lighten up a little bro. The world isn't out to get you my friend.
Yes, I had a fully built engine and fresh tranny when I ran 11.69 on stock inj, IC, etc.
I wish I ran an 11.4! It was my goal to do an 11.4, but I didn't quite get there. ...yet...
My efforts were mostly my own, I'd like to claim all of the credit except I had some help from Full Function ( FFtec Motor Sport ) They helped me out with a very nice 5 point cromoly roll bar with a swingout door bar, and they've always been helpful with tips, advice and plenty of go-fast experience. Otherwise I built the engine, built the trans, found the right parts, did all of the tuning, eprom changes, come up with new ideas, choose the suspension spring rates and damper settings, setting the alignment, etc. I didn't put the car on a dyno until after the season ended, and that was just out of curiosity. I didn't have a wideband in the car yet, and I was suprised that the AF ratio on the dyno chart was very close to optimum! Sometimes I get lucky, I guess.
I should give some credit to all the informative threads here on Tuners and other DSM sites. Without this shared knowledge I'd be nowhere.
As far as someone 'demolishing' the current 14b record, isn't that what Joe Bucci did? Thanks to him we now have separate records for AWD and FWD on a 14b. 10.841 without nitrous is an awesome time! Has there been enough advancements in the past few years to allow someone to break that time? I think so, but someone needs to step up and put all the right pieces together in one big effort.
____________________________
11.51- 14b
10.48- 16G
10.11 @143.49MPH on a GT35
My comment had NO bearing or link on your car bro, I have no idea why you are so defensive but its Sunday, a day of rest.. Please allow time to remove the sand from your vagina. My post was 100% about giving props to Dave for doing something not even the Goodwill car achieved. My point was to imagine if his car was tin canned out how fast it would have been, I have no doubt he could go for the record and take it if he wants, and thats with out the Haltec ecu and water to air that the GW project needed. This is what makes his car more impressive to me, and thats from a personal view because just like people agree its more impressive to build a fast car on a budget, even more impressive than that is to build a fast STREET car that can do the same which has and will always be my goal. I've been both routes, I just prefer one over the other due to extra difficulty and the ability to cruise unknown on the street toying with people.
And he has been back and forth to the track with a mid 11s car, you haven't been there done that, I've been back and forth with a 10s dd car, I HAVE been there done that and can assure you that it takes a lot of confidence to have a car that fast that you can trust on long road trips. And I have rarely seen Dave pull out the lap top after runs, actually I have never seen him do that. He checks his logger and hits a few AFC buttons just as you stated and tries the next race.
Again, my post wasn't directed towards you nor had anything to do with your car. I didn't know this entire thread was about you.. The last few post were directed towards Dave and I was just about to PM him about stuff and figured I'd throw it in here as well as shedding some light on how impressive his accomplishments have been.
This man was dogging mid 10s runs on a regular ancient GT35 non ball bearing turbo on a junkyard block. This was the same time I was toying with my 35R trying to get it into the 10s on only pump in a street car. We both had some great goals we got to accomplish together. Once again, Dave's probably my biggest inspiration in the game, I've gone faster but the way he has done it is beyond me and one day I hope to have his knowledge to apply to my loftier goals. He's a very meek man and he never toots his own horn so I figured I'd ring the bell for him.
Once again, I have no idea why you felt the need to post all of that. I wasn't referring to your car, I really don't even know the specifics of your build for me to even comment on it but regardless of that if you are proud of what you have accomplished f'k anyone else who has something negative to say about it. There will always be people who prefer things a different way. I can definitely respect what you have accomplished. My achievements with my TO4B V trim and my 35r build were all on a 100% bone stock motor from head to toe. 7.8 compression and all, and a majority of the people in this section of the board have a power to weight ratio that would obliterate most super cars, that's the name of the game when it comes to racing. Then again there is no super car made for drag racing, when you can out turn one in a DSM I'll be greatly impressed. No I'm not knocking your accomplishments and I'm not sure if you're upset because you feel you accomplished more than Dave, I dunno. But as I said, to some people various aspects of building a car make it more impressive. There is no doubt in my mind after seeing Dave's logs that if his 14b wouldn't have gone to sh*ts that he would be even deeper into the 11s with nothing else touched on the car. Then take into account the hundreds of lbs of weight he could save on the car as well as the fact he runs street tires, not drag/street slicks, but straight up street tires, it just seems like a great feat.
So again, I wasn't bashing your car, nor discrediting what you have accomplished, albeit with the help of Dave anyways, but I was simply giving him credit in a thread dedicated to 14b drag cars, if I know it was a thread about Phils car I would have maybe worded it differently. Oh and don't get overly offended by the video, its called a joke, lighten up a little bro. The world isn't out to get you my friend.
Fair enough. In no way do I think my accomplishments are better than any, but are noteworthy. For some reason, it seems to me that your posts are directed toward me, so apparently I'm wrong, that's cool. Thanks for clarifying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneumo
Yes, I had a fully built engine and fresh tranny when I ran 11.69 on stock inj, IC, etc.
I wish I ran an 11.4! It was my goal to do an 11.4, but I didn't quite get there. ...yet...
My efforts were mostly my own, I'd like to claim all of the credit except I had some help from Full Function ( FFtec Motor Sport ) They helped me out with a very nice 5 point cromoly roll bar with a swingout door bar, and they've always been helpful with tips, advice and plenty of go-fast experience. Otherwise I built the engine, built the trans, found the right parts, did all of the tuning, eprom changes, come up with new ideas, choose the suspension spring rates and damper settings, setting the alignment, etc. I didn't put the car on a dyno until after the season ended, and that was just out of curiosity. I didn't have a wideband in the car yet, and I was suprised that the AF ratio on the dyno chart was very close to optimum! Sometimes I get lucky, I guess.
I should give some credit to all the informative threads here on Tuners and other DSM sites. Without this shared knowledge I'd be nowhere.
As far as someone 'demolishing' the current 14b record, isn't that what Joe Bucci did? Thanks to him we now have separate records for AWD and FWD on a 14b. 10.841 without nitrous is an awesome time! Has there been enough advancements in the past few years to allow someone to break that time? I think so, but someone needs to step up and put all the right pieces together in one big effort.
Well that's pretty cool for sure. Awesome stuff Dave. really, as always. If I take it any further at all, I'm sure it won't be all my own doing. I don't know much about tuning at all.
Joe sure did knock it out of the park, and the pure reality that it will be nearly impossible to match his race weight in an AWD platform is one thing that makes this a serious feat to beat his number, or even hit 10's. With that, it's going to take alot of power, more than anyone has ever made on the 14b, plus superior driving to make it happen. It's beatable, but it may take another FWD car to do it. As I've said elsewhere, I think his 1/8 mile ET is beatable in an AWD, the 1/4 will be alot harder.
We will see what all these guys can do next year. As it stands, still, I won't be running at all. So, I've got the popcorn ready, let's see what all you guys can do? I'm done with me on this thread.
GOOD LUCK TO ALL 14B CONTENDERS AND HOPEFULS(newbies) in 2010!
____________________________
60' 1.48
ET 11.49
MPH 116.85
14b power!
Last edited by Phil1320; 11-29-2009 at 03:48 PM.
Reason: Auto-merged with previous post to prevent "bumping"
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So I guess I do consider it my fault. From watching what you've done I know 11's will be possible over time, chipping away at it as you say. I guess to me it's nice to see that progression. I'd love to be able to just drop a ton of money on it and take off gunning for a record, but for guys like us, it'll be that slow progression towards the ultimate goal. The positive thing is we'll be around long after those guys are gone. Or at least I think we've proven we will be. 
No offense to them of course, they'll move onto bigger more powerful setups.
It looks like it should run. Some of it is gibberish to me, but that's ok, I don't need to understand it all, your specs I mean. I would imagine with the AEM you should be able to extract maximum HP from your set up. Race weight of 2500 is definitely doable, depending on the weight of the driver of course. FP3 cams huh? I don't think the need for all you listed is there, so this is a build with ONLY the 14b in mind? Eagle Crank? 
Even better, I just happen to line up against and killed one of the new (at the time) 2003 Cobras on that run, and those came with a supercharger and 390HP, one of the hottest cars at the time. 
