Oil filter housing leak

[gorf]

Long story short, ended up rebuilding my engine used a new eagle crank, oil port mod on 2g head, evo squirters etc,etc.

Got the car together and had a serious oil leak from my OFH, which I ported the oil relief before installing. Pulled the OFH and replaced the the gasket. Thought I was done but still had an oil leak. Tore the whole front done to make sure my front main was not leaking - it isn't.

Pulled the Oil filter housing again and the gasket all along the bottom is ripped and oil soaked. Obviously the problem.

What am I doing wrong - this is the second gasket that has failed on me?

What type of sealant should I be using? I used red RTV last time.

As a side note the car is running better than it ever has - except for the leak.

[jrohner]

Make sure the surfaces are clean and dry when you put it together.

[bryanwheat]

There should be NO sealant on that gasket. It appears that there might be some old gasket left on there that is causing it to not seal.

[95'RS-T]

Originally Posted by bryanwheat

There should be NO sealant on that gasket. It appears that there might be some old gasket left on there that is causing it to not seal.

Really? I did not know that. I used black rtv on mine, and have no leaks(except where I cracked the housing by over tightening the low oil pressure switch). I also cleaned and polished the mating surfaces though.

[bryanwheat]

Originally Posted by 95'RS-T

Really? I did not know that. I used black rtv on mine, and have no leaks(except where I cracked the housing by over tightening the low oil pressure switch). I also cleaned and polished the mating surfaces though.

IF you use rtv on this gasket than when you tighten it down it will squish it out a little bit and it can get into the oil passages and clog them up.

[g4ebguy90]

What I would do, I would get a new gasket, use this stuff called High Tack, available at autozone etc. Real sticky stuff. Put it on the Housing then apply the gasket, put the bolts through, hand tighten them, then torque them in 3 seperate steps.

If you do decide to use RTV, use one of the Ultra ones that are resistant to oil. Just put on enough to do the job and not go overboard.

[bryanwheat]

Originally Posted by g4ebguy90

What I would do, I would get a new gasket, use this stuff called High Tack, available at autozone etc. Real sticky stuff. Put it on the Housing then apply the gasket, put the bolts through, hand tighten them, then torque them in 3 seperate steps.

If you do decide to use RTV, use one of the Ultra ones that are resistant to oil. Just put on enough to do the job and not go overboard.

You don't need ANYTHING to seal the housing gasket. If it won't seal with just a gasket than you are doing something wrong.

[g4ebguy90]

That stuff is more to hold the gasket in place and a light sealant if anything. ( IN regards to High Tack)

I've used it on everything and never had a problem.

But I'm not going to argue with you, people use RTV all the time on valve covers. Should it need it no, but it helps alot.
I should have said Gasket, with RTV. Not just RTV.

[bryanwheat]

Originally Posted by g4ebguy90

That stuff is more to hold the gasket in place and a light sealant if anything.

I've used it on everything and never had a problem.

But I'm not going to argue with you, people use RTV all the time on valve covers. Should it need it no, but it helps alot.

The gasket doesn't need to be held in place. Slide the bolts thru the housing, slide the gasket over the bolts. Thread the bolts into the engine. As far as rtv on the valve cover, rtv DOES NOT help a lot. If you know how to install the valve cover properly it will never leak. It doesn't need any help from anything, it just doesn't leak. Adding rtv can actually cause it to leak if anything. There are only a few spots that require rtv on the valve cover. On the corners of the of the outer cam caps, and all the way around the half moon plug.

[g4ebguy90]

What your saying should apply to every single gasket. BUT, alot of people use sealants and RTV to kinda go over the 100%.

In the cases, of valve covers, oil pans, trans pans, etc. RTV can help alot IF there is a issue with leaking.
Sometimes, even if you do all the steps right stuff still leaks. Either because the pans a little bent, or there is a small crack you cannot see.

[bryanwheat]

Originally Posted by g4ebguy90

What your saying should apply to every single gasket. BUT, alot of people use sealants and RTV to kinda go over the 100%.

In the cases, of valve covers, oil pans, trans pans, etc. RTV can help alot IF there is a issue with leaking.
Sometimes, even if you do all the steps right stuff still leaks. Either because the pans a little bent, or there is a small crack you cannot see.

Well on these cars you use ONLY rtv on the oil pan so yeah rtv helps with that. As far as transmission gaskets, that is a big no no to use rtv on them. Rtv can clog the trans filter. Some people prefer to do things correctly the first time and do it right. Some people like to bandaid stuff with rtv. If you can't get a gasket to seal without rtv than you aren't doing it right.

[g4ebguy90]

So your telling me you will use RTV on a oil pan, but WILL not use it on a trans pan or gasket.

Most automatics, have a strainer just like are cars have in there oil pans. Which then goes to the filter.

So I don't see how your justification makes any sense.

I never recommended RTV either. So get this out of your head. I advised if he did use RTV which one I would recommend.

[bryanwheat]

Originally Posted by g4ebguy90

So your telling me you will use RTV on a oil pan, but WILL not use it on a trans pan.

Most automatics, have a strainer just like are cars have in there oil pans. Which then goes to the filter.

So I don't see how your justification makes any sense.

I never recommended RTV either. So get this out of your head. I advised if he did use RTV which one I would recommend.

I use rtv on an oil pan that requires rtv to seal it up when there is no gasket used. For transmissions that require a gasket i do not use nor recommend using rtv. Engines have a strainer to pull the oil from the pan and use a screw on filter to actually filter the oil. The filter can easily be changed. On 95 percent of automatic transmissions the fluid is pulled from the pan directly thru the filter, not a strainer. The filter can not be changed without removing the pan. As I've already said, if you know how to properly install a gasket and torque the bolts properly it will never leak. Did these cars leak oil from the oil filter housing, oil pump, rear seal retainer, and valve cover from the factory, no they didn't. The gaskets were all installed properly from the factory.

[g4ebguy90]

Dude.... Listen,

Idc about the oil filter. What I'm trying to explain to you is, the oil strainer will get clogged as you say just as easily as a transmission filter would. But they don't. Because RTV sticks together.

Only time I ever found RTV in a pan was when it ripped apart and fell into the pan upon removal.

You can keep going on and on about how not to use RTV, but yet you say that you use it yourself. So I guess I just don't understand what your trying to do here.

First you say GASKETS seal themselves and don't need RTV. Then you say that you put some on certain points of the valve cover, and on the plastic or metal moon. So that kinda throws what you just said out in the water.

Again I never said for him to use RTV, I told him if HE used it based on his own decision, of what kind I would use.

High Tack would be fine in all occasions though.

I understand your point, Do not use RTV because it may clog a passage.

But in my 6 years of automotive repair and 3 years of Full time automotive schooling I have never scene anything bad result from RTV use.

[bryanwheat]

Originally Posted by g4ebguy90

Dude.... Listen,

Idc about the oil filter. What I'm trying to explain to you is, the oil strainer will get clogged as you say just as easily as a transmission filter would. But they don't. Because RTV sticks together.

Only time I ever found RTV in a pan was when it ripped apart and fell into the pan upon removal.

You can keep going on and on about how not to use RTV, but yet you say that you use it yourself. So I guess I just don't understand what your trying to do here.

First you say GASKETS seal themselves and don't need RTV. Then you say that you put some on certain points of the valve cover, and on the plastic or metal moon. So that kinda throws what you just said out in the water.

Again I never said for him to use RTV, I told him if HE used it based on his own decision, of what kind I would use.

High Tack would be fine in all occasions though.

I understand your point, Do not use RTV because it may clog a passage. I fully understand this.

Well first off the holes in the strainer of the oil pickup are probably a thousand times bigger than the holes in an a trans filter, so small pieces could be pulled thru. It is all theoretical, it could happen it probably won't. My main point is that if there is a gasket than there is no need for a sealant of any type.

As for installing the valve cover. I use rtv where they use it from the factory and where the factory service manual recommends it, nothing more, nothing less. I prefer to rely on the information from the high paid engineers that designed the engine on the best way to seal it up. It happens to work very well. Out of the many many engines that i have put together or changed gaskets on none of them have leaked. If you want to use rtv or any kind of sealant on your gaskets than go ahead. I will advise however not to recommend it to others because people will get the wrong idea from it.

[g4ebguy90]

Whatever man I'm going to be that engineer in about 1 year.


Before you go on and on, where is your proof RTV has ever caused a failure?
Do you have any proof that it will in fact do as you described?

I don't think you have any of this.

All you are doing is stating your opinion.

I don't even use RTV on valve covers.

I'm not trying to make you sound stupid. In reality I usually avoid RTV use.
So stop acting like I use this on everything.

O and for the fifth time I did not recommend RTV, I recommend High-Tack they are alot different, look into it.

[bryanwheat]

Originally Posted by g4ebguy90

Whatever man I'm going to be that engineer in about 1 year.


Before you go on and on, where is your proof RTV has ever caused a failure?
Do you have any proof that it will in fact do as you described?

I don't think you have any of this.

All you are doing is stating your opinion.

I don't even use RTV on valve covers.

I'm not trying to make you sound stupid. In reality I usually avoid RTV use.

Cool story that you are going to be an engineer. That doesn't mean that you will be designing engines for an auto manufacturer in 1 year, lol. There is a big difference in someone that just got out of school and someone designing engines. Not that it matters, but you are the one that brought it up. I personally haven't had an experience with rtv causing a transmission failure. But atf does break down the rtv which can cause it to get into the transmission. I learned this about 12 year ago when i worked at a transmission shop. It it HIGHLY frowned upon in the industry to use rtv on any part of the transmission for this reason. I have personally seen issues where things have leaked because rtv was used with a gasket vs just using a gasket. As i said, do things the way you want to, i will things according to the service manual, and that is the information that i will post on this site which is the 100 percent correct way to do it. I can take pics of my leak free engine that doesn't have any sealant on the oil filter housing if you'd like.

[g4ebguy90]

Your right probaly not right away, but eventually possibly. Point is I will have the degree to be qualified to it with enough experience. More then likely I will become a service rep.

Back to technical discussion.
They make RTV that resist automatic trans fluid. All trans fluid is anyways is oil with lots of additives so I can not believe they would have to hard of a time designing something that is able to resist its properties.

I also use the correct service manual in all occasions.

This guy appears to have done it the correct way.

[miguelmcv]

This is going out of subject, Lets focus on the OP Problem.

To the OP, clean very well the gasket left on the surface, after that, CLEAN AND DRY the surface with Dry Cleaner, Make sure your surface are flat on both side, the front cover and the filter housing, If you get a very clean and DRY area, you will have no problems with leaks, and please, before touching the clean surface, CLEAN YOUR HANDS TO AVOID CONTAMINATION TO THE SURFACE..

[jimbob_843]

Man just super glue that thing on there. Should hold

[g4ebguy90]

For the record I made a mistake. I did not notice the OP used RTV on his first application, I thought he was going to use it to try to remedy the current problem.

In this case, I would not recommend using the RTV at all and try the gasket by itself properly installed. I thought he was going to try using RTV to help the sealing problem.

Sorry Fellas.

[JusMX141]

New gasket, then:




[/thread]

[gorf]

WOW Thanks for the input.

The last time I replaced the gasket, I put a light bead of red RTV on both sides of the gasket and let it sit before torquing it down. When I pulled the gasket, ALL of the RTV was squished out with none of it on the gasket surface.

Think I will order a couple of gaskets this time round and try it with no sealant first.

I will respond once I try it again.

[99gst_racer]

I agree with Justin. New gasket plus copper spray, and you're all set. Avoid RTV and make sure both surfaces are 100% clean and flat.

Copper spray is one of those thing that is almost never nessacery, but it also doesn't hurt either. I've used it on every OFH that I've installed and I've never had one leak, so I must be doing something right.

[MJcanada]

Originally Posted by g4ebguy90

Dude.... Listen,

I understand your point, Do not use RTV because it may clog a passage.

But in my 6 years of automotive repair and 3 years of Full time automotive schooling I have never scene anything bad result from RTV use.

Ok so you understand that rtv is only a band-aid to cover up an actual problem. You also understand it can clog up passages which can lead to either engine or tranny failure but you don't warn against not using it.

Again you say have never seen a failure from using it but you do everything by the book? Contradicting.

Also 3 years of schooling doesn't mean anything. Used to work with a guy that went to UTI for two years. He was one of the,worst mechanics I've ever seen.

OP justin, bryan, and 99gst have your answers. Just make sure all surfaces are clean install new gasket sprayed with copper spray. Spray it on in the air then install ofh and forget you ever had a leak.

[T is for TURBO]

I agree. Copper spray or nothing at all. I personally copper spray all of my paper gaskets.

[kchaazz]

^^ And get a roll of those blue paper towels from the parts store, fold the towel into a 4" or so square, spray brake cleaner on the towel, then wipe both surfaces until the towel isnt turning brown from picking up residue- usually takes 3- 4 towels- this will ensure both surfaces are absolutely clean, and I do this on ALL my gasket surfaces before installation.

[ramsack]

Adding some sealant to a gasket is not going over the 100%, it's going under. It's another point of failure, and the gaskets were designed to seal without a "gap-filler." The gaskets themselves are "gap-fillers." RTV should only be used where a factory manual says to use it. It's usually only on SEALS, like valve cover gaskets (only at the crotch where the camshafts protrude) and oil pan gaskets.

[g4ebguy90]

Originally Posted by MJcanada

Ok so you understand that rtv is only a band-aid to cover up an actual problem. You also understand it can clog up passages which can lead to either engine or tranny failure but you don't warn against not using it.

Again you say have never seen a failure from using it but you do everything by the book? Contradicting.

Also 3 years of schooling doesn't mean anything. Used to work with a guy that went to UTI for two years. He was one of the,worst mechanics I've ever seen.

OP justin, bryan, and 99gst have your answers. Just make sure all surfaces are clean install new gasket sprayed with copper spray. Spray it on in the air then install ofh and forget you ever had a leak.

Still on this, everybody in the industry in every shop I have ever worked at uses RTV on about everything. I myself avoid any use. I have however used it on all types of pans and never had a problem.

I wouldn't go to UTI anyways. They don't even offer a degree. I have worked with people from UTI and even they say its a waste. You can go on about my schooling but I won't be working in a shop and should be making over 60k a year so I really don't care. If it makes you happy I graduated with honors.

I never RECOMMENDED HE USE IT FOR THE 20TH TIME.
I recommended what kind of RTV I use when I do apply it myself to anything. If you read it again, I mentioned if HE did decide to use RTV. I'm not going to warn him about something that common sense should handle alone. I don't think he would be pouring the stuff inside the engine.

So if we could please stop the quotes. Thanks. I never recommended use of RTV.

[gorf]

update

Crawled under the car and just stared at it for a while. Finally I decided that the oil was most likely coming from the lower front cover gasket. Tore the whole front off and BINGO - the front cover gasket was completely shot right by the high pressure traces.

My engine is a six bolt with a seven bolt front cover - the old RRE conversion method. The Guy that built my engine the first time did all of the machine work. One of the holes for the OFH was tapped crooked and stripped out. The last time I replaced the gasket, I just tapped it deeper and put a longer bolt in it. Guess the front cover gasket was probably already blown. Put a helicoil in it, put it back together and ran the engine up stutter box and no oil leak. I'll get it on the road this weekend - but I believe it is fixed.

Like everyone said DO NOT USE RTV - I did the first time and spent hours cleaning that mess out. I did use the spray copper this time and it made reassembly a lot easier and it should not make a mess out of everything.

thanks for the help
John