4g63 Beehive Valve Kit [Merged 10-8]

[rst95eclipse]

I've been looking for a beehive kit, and until now a dual setup was the only way to go. Not anymore. I'd like to know more information about it before I go rushing to buy a kit.

http://www.kigglyracing.com/parts/

 

[1gcrazy]

Hmmm....I like that girdle Idea....hmmmmm

 

[Street Surgeon]

Hmmm....I like that girdle Idea....hmmmmm

You're not ready for that girdle

 

[absolute_DSM]

Those kinds of springs are meant to give less load on the cam at lower lifts. Like say at .100-.200, the actual pounds of pressure against the cam is less.
Even better than that, with the design of the spring being the bottom coils are wound closer together allowing the coils to actually touch at higher RPMs. This also gives less pounds of force being exerted on the cam at all RPM.
The top of the spring is wound tighter and is actually smaller allowing the use of smaller retainers. Smaller retainers = less weight = faster revs.

I think the design is great. Theres a lot less force on the cam allowing the engine to not have to work as hard. Obviously you cant just throw these in and expect your engine to love it. A rev limiter may be a good idea.
heres a pic, its a 5 minute thing I drew up in paint - yea I know, it rocks.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I know Chevys have been using these for a while, didnt know it leaked into our kinda market. Interesting.

 

[DSMunknown]

^^ Good stuff Eric.



Here are some more links regarding beehive springs.




Link 2
Link 2
Link 3
Link 4
Link 5
Link 6

 

[Caithness]

Very interested in the beehive setup. I'd heard of people machining the spring seats to fit various springs for other applications but if he found/commissioned a drop-in beehive spring/retainer set he should sell a bunch of them.

 

[TurboAnything]

you all know that stock EVO-8 springs are beehive.

 

[absolute_DSM]

you all know that stock EVO-8 springs are beehive.

Got any pics? I cant find any.

 

[Defiant]

Everything old is new.

 

[dsm dork]

to dsm's

 

[underradar92]

Everything old is new.

Real old.

 

[1gcrazy]

You're not ready for that girdle

Not yet...build it right the first time or dont build it at all...

 

[Defiant]

Damn, that's nice. SOHC, Cardan shaft cam drive, roller followers, spark plug ignition, air cooled. Do you know what it is?

 

[Street Surgeon]

Looks like it's attached to something you drive around, you can see the wheel in the background

 

[underradar92]

Damn, that's nice. SOHC, Cardan shaft cam drive, roller followers, spark plug ignition, air cooled. Do you know what it is?

Not sure, given the total-loss oiling system, I'd guess its somehow related to my Talon. I too was impressed with the bevel drive OHC, I suspect its something high performance in it's time, like a Stutz or like that, but I think it may be even older than that. I found the shot on a very low noise forum where I only lurk, so I can't even ask.

 

[rst95eclipse]

Has anyone bought this kit? I'm interested in it, but leery at the same time.

 

[dsm-onster]

To over-simplify, the only thing I'm not seeing here is their rpm capability. I know capability is due to many variable such as ramp rate, lift, weight, valve design (solid vs. 2-piece), AND spring characterisitics. But where is there a mention of 'we took X cam to Y rpm level w/ these springs'? I am not doubting these springs. I'd like to know for purchase.

 

[JWoodley]

To over-simplify, the only thing I'm not seeing here is there rpm capability. I know capability is due to many variable such as ramp rate, lift, weight, valve design (solid vs. 2-piece), AND spring characterisitics. But where is there a mention of 'we took X cam to Y rpm level w/ these springs'? I am not doubting these springs. I'd like to know for purchase.

I'd like to know as well. However if Kiggly runs these in his machine I'd almost buy them just because. Not only is he an innovator, but he's an enthusiast as well.

Checkout the video. I've always heard local BBC guys talk about "conical" or "beehive" springs but had never found them for our application before these. Great job Kiggly!

 

[kiggly]

These springs just hit the market. I updated my website with pics and a high speed video last weekend, so check it out if you didn't see it yet. I just found this thread today.

These springs are good for about 500-700rpm more than a dual setup using the same installed force and rate. The increase in float rpm depends on when your current setup floats (how aggressive the cam profile is, how heavy the parts are, etc). I did not intend this design to reduce stress on the valvetrain by using lighter pressures as mentioned above. While that could be a design goal, my real goal was higher rpm capability and better surge behavior. That is why I went for 103lb on the seat instead of a lighter force. The high rate spring also fits this goal.

The EVO8 springs are 200lb/in, these are 325lb/in. The EVO8 springs also don't support as much lift, and they are a relatively light installed force. They would be a good choice for a cheap, low-rpm setup (factory revlimiter).

This kit is drop-in and fits over the factory seals.

Kevin

 

[JWoodley]

Kevin,

If you dont mind me asking, what are you revving these to? Are there any cams you would advise against or would these be suitable for whatever combination you can throw at them?

 

[TurboAnything]

I have seen many evo8s with 272HKS's and stock springs reving to 8500-8800rpm. Im not saying to do this im just saying it's been done.

 

[kiggly]

Kevin,

If you dont mind me asking, what are you revving these to? Are there any cams you would advise against or would these be suitable for whatever combination you can throw at them?

RPM all depends on cam profile. I tested them on the bench with both a low-rpm cheater profile type cam that was designed for maximum area under the curve and huge accelerations and also with a more gentle profile high-rpm cam. With the low-rpm cam, they held on nicely until ~9500rpm. With absolutely no changes except the cam profile, I cut the test on the high-rpm cam at 11,900rpm (no, the test bench setup does not have an engine bottom end). I may test the high-rpm setup higher next time I have access to a high speed video camera (video on the site was at 10,000 frames/sec).

Overall, these springs behaved better everywhere than the duals I tested. I haven't seen a situation where I wouldn't rather have these springs installed than anything else.

Kevin

 

[dsm-onster]

RPM all depends on cam profile. I tested them on the bench with both a low-rpm cheater profile type cam that was designed for maximum area under the curve and huge accelerations and also with a more gentle profile high-rpm cam. With the low-rpm cam, they held on nicely until ~9500rpm. With absolutely no changes except the cam profile, I cut the test on the high-rpm cam at 11,900rpm (no, the test bench setup does not have an engine bottom end). I may test the high-rpm setup higher next time I have access to a high speed video camera (video on the site was at 10,000 frames/sec).

Overall, these springs behaved better everywhere than the duals I tested. I haven't seen a situation where I wouldn't rather have these springs installed than anything else.

Kevin

Wow, super aggressive ramp rates to 9500 rpms .

The more "gentle" profile: would that be like an HKS 272 ramp rate?

 

[JWoodley]

Hmm...what about the FP3x, BC 280s, or larger. I'm liking these springs, alot.

 

[speedmaster747]

Interesting!