Valve spring comparison #2 - Evo VIII, Stock DSM, Manley, Brian Crower

[BogusSVO]

Valve spring comparison #2
Evo VIII, Stock DSM, Manley, Brian Crower

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

From left to right

· Used EVO VIII
· Used Stock 4G63
· Used Manley
· Used BC1100
· New BC1100

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

The EVO springs, set of 16, tested 58-62 lbs @ 1.530

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Used stock 4G63 valve spring Appox. 140k miles
56lbs @ 1.530

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Used Manley Valve spring, mileage unknown.
78lbs @ 1.530

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Used BC1100 valve spring, Appox 5000 miles
85 lbs @ 1.530
There must have been a change in the production of the springs about 2-3 years ago. Since the used springs test stronger than the new ones.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

New BC1100, right out of the box
80 lbs @ 1.530

 

[GsxAZman]

Have you ever tested crower springs, not bc? Just curious where mine rank.

 

[BogusSVO]

Gsx.... Read this thread post#12 http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341209-4g63t-valve-spring-info.html

 

[donniekak]

When I tested evo springs, the installed height worked out to 1.55", and they all tested under 50lbs.

 

[19BLACKGST98]

So when you are picking out valve springs do you want the spring with the highest Lbs measurement?

 

[SpiderGST]

^^^I am asking the same question due to I will be running a good size cam and wanting to rev out at 11k.

 

[91stocker]

Also i always wondered at what spring pressure do the stock lifters become insufficient? Seemed like a legitimate question since big cams and high rpm go hand and hand.

 

[BogusSVO]

So when you are picking out valve springs do you want the spring with the highest Lbs measurement?

No, you want enough pressure to keep the follower on the cam so you do not hit valve float. Too much seat pressure is just as bad as not enough. If you have too much pressure placed on the cam from the springs, it can and will cause a parasitic HP loss, and in the extream cause timing belt failure.

^^^I am asking the same question due to I will be running a good size cam and wanting to rev out at 11k.

For going 11k RPMs, you should not even consider a striaght single spring, some sort of Beehive should be on your list of valve train parts, I do not mean a set of used EVO VIII springs either.

Also i always wondered at what spring pressure do the stock lifters become insufficient? Seemed like a legitimate question since big cams and high rpm go hand and hand.

The pressures to be concerned with will be the "over the nose" or full lift spring pressures, this will be the highest spring pressure the lifter will see.

I can not give you an honest awnser to your question, But there are too many builds running Kelford 272 and Beehives from Kiggley, GSC and Ferrea. I have not seen or read of an issue with collasped HLAs with this set up.

 

[SpiderGST]

I was looking at either FP4R,GCS3 or Kelford cams. The FP4R cams are the most expensive cams on the market right know. I was just wondering if they are really worth it but that is for another thread another time. That is why I am kinda starting to sway away from them. I am looking at the kiggly spring and retainer kit for the cams just don't want to over kill it also. Due to your above post talking about hp loss. I already bought Super Tech Valves in standard size. Just want to make sure I purchase the right springs.

 

[coltboostin]

So-considering the stock evo spring has a higher seat pressure-and has a higher coil bind (so ti can be shimmed more for great seat pressure) coupled with a retainer that is half the weight of stock, it looks to be a great budget upgrade-no?

 

[BogusSVO]

Colt.... No... the EVO beehives are not an upgrade,

Read this thread, post #44, more info on the EVO springs

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341209-4g63t-valve-spring-info-2.html

For what you would pay for a set of used EVO beehives and retainers, I would recommend that you spend about the same money and get a set of BC1100 or Manley single springs and use the stock DSM retainers and have what I feel is a better set up

 

[coltboostin]

I would REALLY question that tester- as I have NEVER seen an evo spring that low-ever! With hat little spring pressure, it would float with a stock cam @ 8k. Why can all these evos run 272's to 8500 with stock valve-train and no issue? Coincidence? I think not.

I am going to all but call those numbers bogus as I have tested 100's, and have NEVER seen number like that. Also consider that this does not take into effect the retainer. Further-I recommend people run a .060 shim if they are going over 8500 or with 280's. With the EVO's lower coil bind numbers, the spring bind is not effected unless you are running an extreme lift cam. the .060 Shim gets you to 80 psi seat pressure (with 3psi per spring looking at a used set). you can buy them at your local parts store- Search: valve springs shmims | Valve Spring Shim | AutoZone.com

Now- about the retainer, maybe the biggest reason this is a great upgrade.

Stock DSM 15.2g

Crower CM-8.5

Stock Evo 9 3.98 grams!!!!! That is weight that the spring does not need to lift every single valve event. Considering 8k RPM- thats 40,800 grams or 99 pounds worth of weight the spring does not have to contend with.



I just got off the phone with David Crower- "Every gram you can remove from the retainer, you gain 50 rpm in "usability" with all other factors being equal". This is also on a progressive scale" Meaning the higher the RPM, the greater the benefit of light valve train parts.

I have personally ran this set up to 8800rpm, making 710 whp with NO valve float.

So-higher spring tension, MUCH lighter retainer, and its not an upgrade? Call me crazy-but the results speak for themselves.

 

[sawnuoff]

I have checked alot of springs myself with the same brand of spring checker, and I also have a calibrated spring to know how far off mine is.
My stock dsm spring I have checked close to what bogus got. No others to check though.
I have never checked springs with retainers on them, so I would say you dont take them in to account. Even by putting a .060 shim under one your only going to gain roughly 10lbs. more seat pressure.
Its kinda of an upgrade if you put in evo springs and retainers with a better cam, but I would use what is recomended by cam maker.

 

[woooop]

It sounds more like our buddy bogus is trying to sell shitty bc springs that are knowen to fail time and time again. But evo springs I have never seen or heard of failing

 

[19BLACKGST98]

In one of my dsm's I run the upgraded evo style beehive Springs from fp. Forced Performance Turbochargers: Evo Bee Hive Upgraded Springs

They came with the light evo retainers. I installed them with the head still attached so im sure I did it wrong .

Fp assured me that they were not regular evo Springs.

 

[BogusSVO]

Woop.... I would say I have installed 1000 BC1100 springs, I have not had one head come back with a spring failure.

So please link me to some know failure of the BC spring, that did not happen from the owner installing a cam to big for them.

BlackGST.. no.. those are not the stock evo springs.

 

[nitrouskris]

It sounds more like our buddy bogus is trying to sell shitty bc springs that are knowen to fail time and time again. But evo springs I have never seen or heard of failing

people like you are why the DSM world is turning to pure shit

Valve spring comparison #2
Evo VIII, Stock DSM, Manley, Brian Crower

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Used BC1100 valve spring, Appox 5000 miles
85 lbs @ 1.530
There must have been a change in the production of the springs about 2-3 years ago. Since the used springs test stronger than the new ones.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

New BC1100, right out of the box
80 lbs @ 1.530

If he was trying to sell bc to US, he would have not said the older spring was better then the newer one.

bc also makes a dual springs but most of all DSM people are super cheap. most go with the single springs and dont change a single thing else.

 

[coltboostin]

It sounds more like our buddy bogus is trying to sell shitty bc springs that are knowen to fail time and time again. But evo springs I have never seen or heard of failing

Ah. Well I did not know this was part of some sort of sales pitch. Weather or not the BC is better or worse vs. cost may be a matter of opinion, but saying the Evo spring and retainer combo is not an upgrade is ignorant.

 

[BogusSVO]

Colt... Not a sales pitch....

But feel free what you find with your stock evo beehives.

I install all sorts of springs, due to cost, I install alot of the BC1100 spring, not as expensive as other springs. The stock retainer set up with BC1100 springs work well with HKS, BC, FP 272 cams.

You step up the cams to Kelfords, GSC3,FP4s and other big cams, beehives are the way to go.

 

[coltboostin]

Colt... Not a sales pitch....

But feel free what you find with your stock evo beehives.

I install all sorts of springs, due to cost, I install alot of the BC1100 spring, not as expensive as other springs. The stock retainer set up with BC1100 springs work well with HKS, BC, FP 272 cams.

You step up the cams to Kelfords, GSC3,FP4s and other big cams, beehives are the way to go.

Due to lift (and more importantly ramp rate) I agree.