Structural Adjustable Wing Mounts

[Atuca]

I am looking to make structural wing mounts for my race car, I have seen plenty on other cars in pictures, and was able to snap a picture myself of one off the FXMD NSX. I talked to the fabricator some and he explained to me the reasons they did the mount their way, but then I look at photos of Nemo's and Brilliant's wings and they are completely different. Beau's car has mounts completely different from them all.

I came to tuners to see what I could find and I figure since there were no threads about it, instead of just copying someone, maybe there could be a bit of dicussions on what is needed to build an adjustable mount, where to buy the materials, and the thickness of tubes, ect.

The short version from what I understand is I take tube, weld a nut on the end, and have a threaded screw with an hole at the end to connect to the wing. Then at the base I weld into the frame rail and have provisions to mount a large 1/4" thick plate up through the trunk.

What are you guys' thoughts?

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[lowell]

How many adjustments are you looking for? (X, Y, Angle)

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[Atuca]

I like AMB and Nemo's adjustable mounts, but my question is more aimed at the construction of the pieces, thickness of tubing, and how the frame mounted portion connects to the chassis (examples).

I havn't seen many pictures of the frame mounted part, I don't know if it is simple as making a base plate welded to the frame, to a tube mounted to another base plate at the trunk lid, then the tubes with be adjustable nuts attach to that?

So far I've gotten some info on what to use instead of just nuts:

QA1 Tube Adapters | Tube Adapters | QA1

Those are much better then nuts to weld apparently. I'm looking for more things specific like this to help make building these less guess work.

Tubing size I'd imagine is important, but then I hear that some mounts are aluminum which sounds not as strong as steel or chromoly. So I'm not sure the specifics and if it depends in the downforce of the wing, and what else do I need to be taking into consideration when doing this.

Like I was saying in my original post, I suppose I could just copy someone but I'm trying to get a better understand of what they did and how they chose the materials and sizes and accessories they did.

 

[greengoblin]

I would bet money that Nemo and the fxmd car used soild works or the like and did a FEA on them. Both those wings where custom built for the cars and had engineers design them and working on the team. Your best bet is to call the maker of your wing. They should be able to give you good clear guidelines as to what is required.

 

[lowell]

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http://www.auto-power-girl.com/wallpapers/highresolution/nissan_gtr_new_fia_gt1_race_car/55002

 

[91-GS]

Noticed that most wing mounts (especially ones that bolt to trunk lid) have no braces to keep wing from moving left-to-right. Is that not a concern?
Also would you like a rigid mount (only adjustable from outside, while car is stopped), or a movable on-the-go type (where wing's angle can be changed from inside the car while moving, via cables or electric actuators)?

 

[Atuca]

I would have to double check the rules, but I am fairly certain cabin adjustable wings are not allowed in NASA or SCCA, and since redline and global time attack are both based off the NASA CCR, that pretty much makes it now unusable for me in nearly every sanctioning body I have access to in my area.

I think it be cool, but I'll stick with a traditional rigid adjustable mount.

 

[91-GS]

Rules are rules, gotta follow them even if you don't like them.

Seen this video

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not long ago, so figured it might be a good idea to mention it here.
The company that makes the split wing in the video is AeroMotion (aeromotion.com), you might get some ideas from their site.

Will your wing be mounted to the hatch, through the hatch to roll cage, to sides of car, or to rear bumper mounts?

 

[Atuca]

I aim to mount it directly above the frame rail in the rear of the car through the trunk lid. I think it will look something similar to Beau's for the base up to the deck, and then like Andrew's and Nemo's with the adjustable tubes for adjusting AoA

 

[91-GS]

About how high above the hatch are you looking to have the wing? And how much down-force are you expecting (seeing that you are worried that aluminum might not be strong enough)?

 

[Atuca]

Wing will be placed at or right below roof line, and to match my front downforce, I'll be aiming for 500-700 lbs.

I did get some pros and cons to using a flat aluminum mount that comes up through the deck: the flat aluminum has less drag then the round adjustable tubing, just doesn't have the same adjustability they do. Knowing that I may not possess the knowledge to know exactly where to move the wing forward or back on a per track basis, the simplicity of the flat aluminum became more appealing last night.

Still learning lots though

 

[91-GS]

You might have to build a framework inside the car out of tubing and use flat stock to attach wing to said framework. That way you have the rigidity of tube and aerodynamics of flat.

Have you though about using something like aluminum streamline tubing for parts of wing support that will be above the hatch? That way it's more aerodynamic than plain round and you might be able to "hide" some of the adjustment turnbuckles in there at least partially. That stuff is expencive though, about $10-$15 per foot.

 

[greengoblin]

Have a set cut out by CNC with a airfoil design like the tear drop tubing. We could build two or more sets and bring the cost down some. Either way once you/we have a plan we should work on it together. All we need is a good 2d model and I can get the design drawn up in solid works 3d. Andrew at Frontline could do the machine work.
It will also be interesting to see what the maker comes up with for his car .

 

[Atuca]

Here is something to read over.

Wing Failure at VIR Going 140+mph

Andrew made a point to have supports half way up the wing mounts, welded to backing plates at the level of the deck lid. There is a photo example in his post on the trackhq post above.

 

[Atuca]

Figure this thread needs an update!

So I am installing a APR GT-1000 duel element wing:

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I am still working on my wing mounts, but here is what was decided.

I am welding DOM tubing shaped like a 'U' between the shock towers and bent around the back of the car. That will provide the lateral support, while tube straight piece down to the frame will provide the transfer of down force from the wing uprights. I still need to weld some tubing around my shock towers to give a place to both my roll cage to be welded to as well as the wing mount support, but that is also an on going (read: slow moving) project.

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To the tubing I am welding some CNC cut base upright mount "tabs" that will give a solid place to bolt the uprights to.

Then aluminum uprights will be CNC out. These are being designed with a 2* toe out at 10mm thickness to provide more of that lateral support and strengthen them even more. Since welding the aluminum would weaken it, I am taking a 1/2" thick piece of aluminum and cutting the 2* bend at the wing attachment points. At 100mm for the top of wing uprights/bottom of wing attachment point, that makes for a 3.5mm thickness increase of the 10mm thickness of the upright to machine in the bend.

I'll show pictures once its cut out. These are being cut out with a home made CNC machine and there's a few software bugs to work out, but so far everything looks really cool with the wood versions! They didn't have a hole drilled into the middle of them for the mount because they are wood, but imagine the metal ones with a drilled and tap hole. They sit on top of the tubing and will be welded all the way around.

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And here are the steel version base mounts being cut out!

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