Russell ProClassic vs PFTE (teflon)

[nmg72]

Ok, I did some reading and I have a question about the Russell ProClassic Nylon Braided Hose.

Some people are reporting that you can smell gas emanating from the hose. Others have reported that the 15% ethanol gas is eating away the rubber internal hose. They recommend using a PTFE (teflon) lined hose.

Most of what I'm reading is that PFTE is meant for brake lines, however, people are using it for fuel lines as well? Any thoughts on that?

One issue that I read was that the PFTE hose is a little smaller than a hose like the Russell ProClassic. With that in mind, will the hose adapters from the STM kit still work on the PFTE hose?

This is the hose that was recommended:
Summit Racing® PTFE Hose SUM-220985 - SummitRacing.com

 

[agentorange313]

PTFE hose needs a special style hose end to be used.

It has an addition inner seal to seal to the PTFE inner tubing

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When you assemble the hose, you acutally leave some of the inner teflon hose material exposed an slide that gold sealer around it.

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I use Fragola hose ends designed for PTFE, its the ones in the first picture

 

[Jon91TSi]

I have braided stainless (same inner lining as Proclassic) and when my car was on pump gas it stunk my whole garage up. Since I've switched to E85 I no longer have any smell. My fuel filter also shows no signs of any of the hose breaking down. Teflon hose is nice, but it is extremely expensive along with the hose ends, as Lawrence mentioned. If you can live with the gas smell in your garage or you park outside you'll be fine.

 

[nmg72]

I sent an email to STM to cancel the order for their kit. I keep the car in the garage and sure don't want it smelling like a gas station.

So judging from the STM kit, I would need:

1 x PFTE hose -6AN
3 x Straight Fragola -6AN hose ends
1 x 45 degree -6An hose end to go to fuel rail
1 x fuel filter

Will the Fragola -6AN hose end connect to the stock fuel rail or will I need a new connector like what the STM kit comes with?

 

[agentorange313]

I sent an email to STM to cancel the order for their kit. I keep the car in the garage and sure don't want it smelling like a gas station.

So judging from the STM kit, I would need:

1 x PFTE hose -6AN
3 x Straight Fragola -6AN hose ends
1 x 45 degree -6An hose end to go to fuel rail
1 x fuel filter

Will the Fragola -6AN hose end connect to the stock fuel rail or will I need a new connector like what the STM kit comes with?

If you want to piece this kit together you will need the follow:

1x -6 an to Metric inverted flare fitting for the hanger:
14mmX 1.5 Inv Flare to -6 Flare - Metric Fuel Fitting by Advanced Fuel Injection

2x PTFE style hose end
1x "X" length of PTFE hose, 10-15ft will work with enough room to mess up
1x Aftermarket fuel filter with proper -6an fittings
1x 45* rubber AN hose end
1x Straight rubber AN hose end
1x Fuel rail adapter fitting
1x "X" length of russel hose

thats if you choose to use both style hoses in you setup, aiming for the PTFE to be running from the tank to filter.

there is a way for a -6AN an hose line to thread onto the stock flare fitting, but I dont personally recommend it. Heres some reading one it:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...ttings-sending-unit-2g-awd.html#post152935542

 

[nmg72]

If you want to piece this kit together you will need the follow:

1x -6 an to Metric inverted flare fitting for the hanger:
14mmX 1.5 Inv Flare to -6 Flare - Metric Fuel Fitting by Advanced Fuel Injection

2x PTFE style hose end
1x "X" length of PTFE hose, 10-15ft will work with enough room to mess up
1x Aftermarket fuel filter with proper -6an fittings
1x 45* rubber AN hose end
1x Straight rubber AN hose end
1x Fuel rail adapter fitting
1x "X" length of russel hose

thats if you choose to use both style hoses in you setup, aiming for the PTFE to be running from the tank to filter.

there is a way for a -6AN an hose line to thread onto the stock flare fitting, but I dont personally recommend it. Heres some reading one it:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...ttings-sending-unit-2g-awd.html#post152935542

What is the bolded part needed for?

So from the tank to the filter should be the PTFE hose. From filter to rail should I used the same PTFE hose or used the braided nylon hose?

Will the PTFE -6 AN hose end fit onto the stock fuel tank connector?

So it should look like this?

TANK -> PTFE hose end -> PTFE hose (15ft) -> PTFE hose end -> Fuel filter > Straight AN hose end -> braided russell hose -> 45* AN hose end -> Fuel rail adapter fitting?

Or can I just run PTFE hose from filter to rail?

EDIT: Just curious, would it be better to move the fuel filter to under the car instead of the stock firewall placement?

 

[agentorange313]

What is the bolded part needed for?

So from the tank to the filter should be the PFTE hose. From filter to rail should I used the same PFTE hose or used the braided nylon hose?

Will the PFTE -6 AN hose end fit onto the stock fuel tank connector?

So it should look like this?

TANK -> PFTE hose end -> PFTE hose (15ft) -> PFTE hose end -> Fuel filter > Straight AN hose end -> braided russell hose -> 45* AN hose end -> Fuel rail adapter fitting?

Or can I just run PFTE hose from filter to rail?

The bold part is an adapter piece that will screw into your stock feed line off the fuel pump hanger. All DSMs have a 14mm x 1.5 inverted flare feed line. This piece will allow for a proper seal and let you run -6AN lines.

You can use a combination of lines types it doesnt matter. I would just stick to one line style since you are buying quite a few feet of it. No need to be swapping back and forth spending more money on different fittings and hoses.

Apparently -6AN hose end fits on the stock hard line feed we have in our DSMs. I personally have never done this, but many have and have had success. This is how the STM kit is designed, but we have the option of doing our fuel setups the right way, why risk it. Do it right or dont do it at all is how I feel.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/custom-fabrication/441135-1g-fuel-pump-hanger.html#post153032924

 

[chinola69]

If you want to piece this kit together you will need the follow:

1x -6 an to Metric inverted flare fitting for the hanger:
14mmX 1.5 Inv Flare to -6 Flare - Metric Fuel Fitting by Advanced Fuel Injection

Would you recommend that fitting over the welding of this fitting
Aeroquip FCM2872 Steel Flare To Braze Adapter : Amazon.com : Automotive as 99gst(paul) suggest or would it be a preference thing at this point?

 

[nmg72]

The bold part is an adapter piece that will screw into your stock feed line off the fuel pump hanger. All DSMs have a 14mm x 1.5 inverted flare feed line. This piece will allow for a proper seal and let you run -6AN lines.

You can use a combination of lines types it doesnt matter. I would just stick to one line style since you are buying quite a few feet of it. No need to be swapping back and forth spending more money on different fittings and hoses.


Apparently -6AN hose end fits on the stock hard line feed we have in our DSMs. I personally have never done this, but many have and have had success. This is how the STM kit is designed, but we have the option of doing our fuel setups the right way, why risk it. Do it right or dont do it at all is how I feel.

Just to make sure I'm getting this clear. With that adapter, I don't have to do any welding right? That will screw onto the existing fuel hanger and allow a -6 AN adapter to screw into it right?

 

[dsmornothing]

I have never smelt gas coming from the proclassic. I have also done tests by soaking both PTFE and Proclassic in E85 and in 18 months neither has changed.

 

[nitroazz]

I have never smelt gas coming from the proclassic. I have also done tests by soaking both PTFE and Proclassic in E85 and in 18 months neither has changed.

One of the previous comments was how with the stm style kit, regular pump gas would eat the proclassic style line. After the previous poster switched to E85, the raw fuel smell in his garage disappeared.

That being the case, is the pump gas eating the hose?

I have never had a problem with the STM kit. No leaks, no smells, etc. Fitment was good. Didn't really like the way they attach the -6 an fitting to the tank outlet but that's easily fixed.

 

[dsmornothing]

The gas smell people get is probably because they are not installing the fittings properly. If you cut it proper and use the right tools you will never smell a thing. And if E85 isnt eating it, Pump gas is not going to touch it either! STM uses proclassic on every single car they build, and I doubt they would do that if it smells or gets eaten away seeing as they use E98 in pretty much all of their cars. Just food for thought.

 

[chinola69]

Just to make sure I'm getting this clear. With that adapter, I don't have to do any welding right? That will screw onto the existing fuel hanger and allow a -6 AN adapter to screw into it right?

Yes you are correct, you put that fitting on and you attach your AN line to that.

I have never smelt gas coming from the proclassic. I have also done tests by soaking both PTFE and Proclassic in E85 and in 18 months neither has changed.

Would you recommend PTFE over the proclassic (with money not being a factor).

 

[dsmornothing]

Would you recommend PTFE over the proclassic (with money not being a factor).

No I would not. Pro Classic is super light and super easy to work with

 

[agentorange313]

Would you recommend that fitting over the welding of this fitting
Aeroquip FCM2872 Steel Flare To Braze Adapter : Amazon.com : Automotive as 99gst(paul) suggest or would it be a preference thing at this point?

Its really preference, if you clicked the link in my last post you can see how I welded an -8an fitting to my 1g fuel pump hanger. I prefer this method, but it involves welding which is not available to all.

Would you recommend PTFE over the proclassic (with money not being a factor).

No I would not. Pro Classic is super light and super easy to work with

Pro classic is overall a great hose. Its super light weight, as mentioned, and also does not hurt your finger when working with it. The SS line tend to prick you fingers while nylon covered hoses are soft to the touch. Also the bend radius is tight. I mentioned it in this thread:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/418328-fuel-system.html#post152773711

 

[dsmornothing]

Pro classic is overall a great hose. Its super light weight, as mentioned, and also does not hurt your finger when working with it. The SS line tend to prick you fingers while nylon covered hoses are soft to the touch. Also the bend radius is tight. I mentioned it in this thread:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/418328-fuel-system.html#post152773711

Agreed time 100! the stuff is an absolute dream to work with. Not to mention you dont have to worry if its resting on something because it will not scratch anything up! Braided stainless lines have poked more holes in me than I can count. Not only that but stainless lines are not nearly as easy to install fittings on or get a nice clean cut. I have also noticed that to clean the lines up again you can spray them down with a light mix of dish soap and rinse them off and they look like new again!

 

[nmg72]

Ok, I placed my order.

Getting:

- 20ft Aeroquip FCC0620 6AN PTFE Racing Hose off Amazon for $50.59

- 2 x Aeroquip FCM1103 straight PTFE 6AN hose end for $4.85ea from HRP through amazon

- 1 x Aeroquip FCM1112 45* PTFE 6AN hose end for $14.99 from HRP through amazon

- 1 x Aeroquip FCM1122 90* PTFE 6AN hose end for $12.65 from HRP through Amazon

- 1 x Fuelab 81801-1 Black 10 Micron Fuel Filter for $86.68 from Amazon

- 1 x 14mm x 1.5 Inv Flare to 6AN for $32.00 from www.advancedfuelinjection.net

- 1 x Fuel Rail Fitting 6AN - 95-99 Eclipse for $24.00 from Welcome To Extreme PSI

I will go to the local home depot or auto store for self tapping screws and hose clamps with rubber inserts to secure the fuel line.

All for right around $275 with shipping.

Probably could have gone cheaper with Summit Racing hose and fittings, but if Aeroquip is good enough for airplanes, it's good enough for a car.

EDIT: Thank you so much Lawrence for all your help.

 

[chinola69]

Ok, I placed my order.

Getting:

- 20ft Aeroquip FCC0620 6AN PTFE Racing Hose off Amazon for $50.59

- 2 x Aeroquip FCM1103 straight PTFE 6AN hose end for $4.85ea from HRP through amazon

- 1 x Aeroquip FCM1112 45* PTFE 6AN hose end for $14.99 from HRP through amazon

- 1 x Aeroquip FCM1122 90* PTFE 6AN hose end for $12.65 from HRP through Amazon

- 1 x Fuelab 81801-1 Black 10 Micron Fuel Filter for $86.68 from Amazon

- 1 x 14mm x 1.5 Inv Flare to 6AN for $32.00 from www.advancedfuelinjection.net

- 1 x Fuel Rail Fitting 6AN - 95-99 Eclipse for $24.00 from Welcome To Extreme PSI

I will go to the local home depot or auto store for self tapping screws and hose clamps with rubber inserts to secure the fuel line.

All for right around $275 with shipping.

Probably could have gone cheaper with Summit Racing hose and fittings, but if Aeroquip is good enough for airplanes, it's good enough for a car.

EDIT: Thank you so much Lawrence for all your help.

Very nice want to go with the same exact setup good luck tell me how everything turns out.

Just have one question: Are you upgrade your injectors or pump? Only reason I ask cause you did just one fitting for the rail telling me your not run an Aftermarket FPR.

 

[IrishBeatdown]

I'm running PTFE hose tank to rail, I love it, not a tough assembly either with the right tools. It's worth noting, especially because you are using -6AN, the PTFE hose probably isn't much bigger than stock and isn't much of an upgrade performance-wise. The ID of PTFE hose is smaller than regular SS and nylon hose because of the thickness of the inner hose lining. That being said, as far as durability, its the best there is. It's definitely more expensive but worth it in my opinion.

 

[nmg72]

I'm keeping everything stock. It's a DD so I really don't need the upgrades.

Basically, I'm using a failsafe because I don't really trust that the local Firestone will be able to redo the fuel line they hacked up.

They crimped the crap out of the hard line right before the fuel filter trying to get the oem fuel filter off. So they ordered a new oem fuel line and are replacing it today.

With what they did previously, I'd rather do the job myself with a bit of an upgrade which really started with a better fuel filter.

That's why I'm going with Fuelab and their replaceable filters.

I'm def doing overkill for the purpose of the car is, but I'd rather have peace of mind than wonder if the car will somehow break down while I'm on the road.

 

[flawlessTSI]

Frozenboost.com has everything you need except the fuel rail adaptor.

 

[nmg72]

I'm running PTFE hose tank to rail, I love it, not a tough assembly either with the right tools. It's worth noting, especially because you are using -6AN, the PTFE hose probably isn't much bigger than stock and isn't much of an upgrade performance-wise. The ID of PTFE hose is smaller than regular SS and nylon hose because of the thickness of the inner hose lining. That being said, as far as durability, its the best there is. It's definitely more expensive but worth it in my opinion.

Yeah, I almost screwed up by getting the wrong hose ends. Aeroquip has a PDF catalog that I was able to get the right numbers from PTFE hose and fittings.

I just went to Amazon and typed the numbers in and was able to get most of everything through Amazon and very good prices compared to Summit Racing, Extreme PSI and Horse Power Freaks. I'm sure with more searching I could have gotten cheaper prices on other sites here and there, however, I much rather have one place with good prices than searching for days to save a couple of bucks.

 

[chinola69]

Frozenboost.com has everything you need except the fuel rail adaptor.

That website looks sketchy I would stick with a brand name like Aeroquip.

 

[flawlessTSI]

That website looks sketchy I would stick with a brand name like Aeroquip.

Ive ordered from them many times, fast shipping and quality stuff.
ive used the lines for.
vacume lines
Oil feed lines
return lines
next project ima use it for fuel line.

 

[nmg72]

Well, apparently Amazon does have it all.

Just got the stainless steel cushion clamps for 6AN PTFE hose. $3.99 for a 5 pack.

Stainless Steel Cushion Clamps

I got 3 packs. 15 should do the trick.

EDIT: That brings my total cost with shipping to $268.91.

So it's just a tad more expensive than the STM kit, but you get a better quality line.