Ran fine yesterday, no won't build boost

[19gsx91]

Hey guys, I drove my car home from work yesterday, worked flawlessly, had no issues building boost, or driving it around.. I got in to go to work this morning, went to go up a hill by my house and the boost gauge hit 0 and wouldn't go any higher, doesn't misfire, chug, do anything weird beyond it does NOT build boost. I have not changed anything, parked it running fine last night, this morning it will not build boost at all.

I am going to investigate when I get home (I did not drive the car to work) But am looking for ideas to check when I get home..

I am going to check for play in the turbo, that comes out fine I'll do a boost leak test but is there anything else I should be on the lookout for?

It's a v2 68hta fed from the OFH, has about 5k miles on it from a brand new rebuild.

 

[o0GuitarKid0o]

Waste gate stuck open?
Do you have power or does the car feel weak?

 

[19gsx91]

Should of mentioned, It is an external wastegate setup dumped to the atmosphere, if it was stuck open It'd be pretty noticeable. It feels normal until it goes to about where it SHOULD boost then it just feels.. slow. I'm kinda afraid for the health of the turbo, funny thing is if it takes a dump this would be the second time in less then a year I'd have to send it back to FP. Whatever happens when I figure it out I will update.

 

[ThunderChild]

If you can log it that would be some useful info. Sounds like a WG issue, but its possible you may have a snapped turbine shaft?

 

[19gsx91]

It may be, I was going to switch from the v2 68hta to the v1 68hta this weekend anyway but I'll know for sure in about 3 hours.

 

[pauleyman]

At least take off the intake and make sure it isn't seized.

 

[boostdawd]

What's the word 19gsx91. I'm curious as to what it is. If no boost at all then it's your turbo for sure. Pics sir!

 

[19gsx91]

Just got home and went right to tearing it apart. Turbine spins freely, some up and down play but no more then I'd expect checking shaft play cold

Boost leak test came back normal as well WITH one slight hiccup, during the test I noticed my power steering pump pulley did rotate a bit during the test. There are some small leaks but certainly nothing that would merit NO boost at all.

Moved on to the spark plugs. Pulled all 4 and they had slight variations but nothing crazy (some a slightly darker color then others)

I am going back out to pull the manifold and see what might be hiding on the backside

@JusMX141 a spinning shaft doesn't mean I'm out of the woods yet does it?

So sit tights guys I'm not sure what's happening yet but It's kind of annoying, it didn't act weird at all last night, I didn't even really run it hard (er then normal )

At least take off the intake and make sure it isn't seized.

I had mentioned in the first post that I had intended on doing that, but wanted some ideas of what else may cause this issue in case my findings came up empty, I'd rather ask a few hours in advanced then sit around and despair .


As a side note, The EBC wouldn't have anything to do with this would it? @GST with PSI I assumed if it was stuck at 0%DC it would just run wastegate spring pressure.. and if it stuck at 100% it'd run a lot more boost then it's currently set for.

 

[19gsx91]

If you can log it that would be some useful info. Sounds like a WG issue, but its possible you may have a snapped turbine shaft?

Right now until I dig a little deeper I'm not comfortable starting/running it again, If there is a problem the last thing I want to do is exacerbate it.

 

[19gsx91]

Sorry for the triple post guys, But pictures were requested and this is what I found. Everything spins, I'm kinda stumped to be honest with you. If there's an issue it doesn't APPEAR to be with the turbo.

It looks like I had some pretty good exhaust leaks but that wouldn't cause it to not boost at all right? Weird thing is I was in there, doing all that maybe 6 weeks ago? less then 5k miles on it. I know those gaskets are garbage but are they THAT bad?

 

[pauleyman]

Did you leak test the entire system? Ive seen splits in ic cores. Broken compressor orings. Broken turbo shafts. All possible causes.

 

[d1prospect]

Same thing happened to me one time. I run speed density and I ended up having a 8" split in my intercooler.

 

[boostdawd]

What pressure did u test the system? Did u use a homemade BLT and tested frm the compressor housing leaving all couplers and everything connected?

 

[jakk220]

I would take the hot side off of that turbo and inspect the whole turbine wheel. That chipped gasket worries me. Because that piece of metal had to go somewhere and it does not look like it went outward. I just had the exact same issue a few months ago and my turbine wheel got destroyed by some sort of foreign object. I never figured out what.

When looking down into the hot side it did not look bad. Once I took the hot side off it was way worse on the inside of the fins you could not see. I would take the hot side off and have a look over the whole wheel.

If that gasket was not chipped when you put it on, I would almost put money on it that you wiped out that turbine wheel

 

[19gsx91]

Did you leak test the entire system? Ive seen splits in ic cores. Broken compressor orings. Broken turbo shafts. All possible causes.

What pressure did u test the system? Did u use a homemade BLT and tested frm the compressor housing leaving all couplers and everything connected?

Doing a twofer here. Yes I did a complete BLT from the compressor housing to 30psi, Like I said there were some leaks but nothing massive, held enough to blow open my BOV

If that gasket was not chipped when you put it on, I would almost put money on it that you wiped out that turbine wheel

It's a common thing with the cheap stainless gaskets, I have since ordered 3 proper evoIII gaskets with the embossed O ring, Extremepsi is having a very nice sale on those for $15 a pop if anyone needs one, or even if you don't... At that price I couldn't resist getting spares.

I HOPE that that chip blew OUT and not in.. I feel like common sense would dictate that especially under pressure that gasket would blow pieces outwards, not inwards, but we do live in a crazy world. I will attempt to inspect further tomorrow when I get some daylight back. I'm this far already I might just throw the v168hta on and change my oil feed and call it a day.

 

[GST with PSI]

Even with the EBC set all the way down, you should at least see WG pressure.

That's a strange issue. Not many things can cause a zero boost issue. The main causes to look for would be boost leaks, WG issues, or the turbo itself.

 

[19gsx91]

Yeah I'm at a crossroads right now.. Do I swap turbos and change my feeds which I did NOT want to do without the lift (I'm lazy.. you'd be too if you had access to a lift at your house.) or just grab a flashlight and slap it all together with my new gaskets and see what happens? Ah screw it. slap it together it is. I'll also bypass the EBC for now just to cover everything, unlikely as it may be. I'll try to take better pictures of the turbine wheel, or at least inspect it further.

 

[GST with PSI]

Yeah, I wouldn't swap turbos. I'd check the easier stuff first.

 

[19gsx91]

Alright guys. Here's your update..

CHANGE YOUR GASKETS AND MAKE SURE YOU DO IT RIGHT

I bout pooped my pants at the way the car took off after letting the RTV set a bit and resealing everything with OEM gaskets.

I never stomped on it when it wasn't giving me boost before for fear of something going wrong and unlike some other people we won't mention I won't keep my foot in it if it's obvious there's a problem

So.. change your gaskets.. try that before freaking out and asking your fellow tooners for help

Extremepsi has an awesome deal on the OEM evoIII 7cm gaskets with that embossed O-ring. PLEASE USE THOSE. The cheap ones don't last, at all.. I've chewed through at least 3 this summer.

 

[boostdawd]

So replacing the manifold to turbo gasket fixed the boost issue? A little confused. I've had leaking gaskets at the turbo/manifold surface and was still able to boost.

 

[jakk220]

So replacing the manifold to turbo gasket fixed the boost issue? A little confused. I've had leaking gaskets at the turbo/manifold surface and was still able to boost.

I'm in the same boat. They would practically have to be disconnected for you to not be able to spool at all....

 

[19gsx91]

As am I boostawd.. as am I. But if my turbos okay to run for another month!? (New york.. I pull it off the road when snow hits) I'll take it. After looking at the gasket again I'm curious if maybe jakk had a point, It doesn't look like that gasket piece could of blown out. So I may find some damage to the turbine.

Trust me guys I'm confused and a bit embarrassed by even asking before taking care of the simple stuff, I'm just posting my findings, even with the 68hta I could give it partial throttle and it'd build boost and start to pull, this morning? nothing. no positive pressure whatsoever.

All I did was pull the filter off, the intake pipe, did a boost leak test. Everything checked out. Pulled the manifold off. grabbed my new gaskets, laid a ring of RTV around them and put everything back together, let it set. Started it up, took it up and down the road and the difference was astounding. I wouldn't be terrible surprised if the leak from the manifold to turbo was much worse then what it seemed.

 

[boostdawd]

Boost god was messin with u. Only reasonable explanation

 

[jakk220]

Boost god was messin with u. Only reasonable explanation

Or maybe not . Here is a theory for you:

The turbine wheel is damaged (as I stated before) but only has minor damage from that gasket chipping off and doing some damage. There is no way that piece went outward.

The gasket then had a leak.

Now that the turbine wheel is damaged somewhat, a small leak would have a much larger effect being that there is more air velocity needed to spin the damaged turbine wheel.

completely plausible in my book.

 

[boostdawd]

Here's another theory.

Piece of the gasket got stuck in between the turbine wheel preventing it from spinning. While our boy was moving the turbo around it fell off. Lets hope all is well with the turbo .