2G EVO Oil Squirters in a 2G

[4G63510]

I'm sure there must be info out there on this, but I'm not finding anything.

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(this is a 4G93 block shown btw)

I recently discovered my 7 bolt stock oil squirters are stuck open which means it's time for a rebuild. Rather than build that block, I figured I would just build a spare split thrust block I have. Removing the stock 2G squirters and blocking them off is easy enough. Having a machine shop do the work to put EVO style squirters in is another thing. I assume others have done this, but I'm coming up empty. If I knew of a DSM machine shop near me, I'm sure they'd know what to do, but I will likely need to provide them some instructions.

I'm sure a competent machine shop could do this with a few instructions. The oil passage is on the exhaust side of the DSM block (intake on EVO) and it needs to be threaded for the banjo bolts with a dowl hole for the squirter. Are there any critical dimensions that I should be aware of? Are there any issues to be concerned with?

And to answer the question of why I don't just run the stock 2G squirters; I just don't trust them. I have to rebuild a motor simply because they are stuck open. To remove and replace them, it's a full tear down. I might as well "upgrade" while I'm in there.

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

Might I ask why not eliminate them? Several of us including myself have used non turbo blocks with no oil squirters with no ill effect. David Buschur once stated he felt they were a waste and oil better supplied elsewhere so he preferred non turbo blocks for his customer builds for this reason. Not blaming you for keeping them but just throwing the idea out there to make life easier.

 

[4G63510]

I appreciate the input. I do road race the car (HPDE) so the added cooling has been proven beneficial in my research. And although splash oiling of the wrist pins might be enough, I like the added security of more direct oiling from the squirters.

I'm sure no squirters is just fine for drag racing and street driving. This isn't an all-out race build, but I drive the hell out of it.

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

Completely understandable, I can’t knock that logic I can see how they could be beneficial in that setting.

 

[DSMPT]

I use only non turbo block if it's available when I build the engine, and have never had any issues. But if you do road racing or some sort of endurance racing, especially if the pistons are stock, keeping oil jets may be a good idea. I have talked a couple of times about this with aftermarket piston manufacturers reps. They have the same idea.
If you are running the stock rods, the rods also have oil jet and jetting oil to around exhaust/major thrust side piston skirt. So you are still having some oil splash from there to wrist pin.

 

[4G63510]

No replies yet? I know there have been a ton of people to do this. I assume it's all been done by shops that have experience with the 4G63 so no one thought to document it. I don't think I will have that luxury, and DSM specific shops are becoming more rare. Any help in this area would be greatly appriciated.

 

[donniekak]

Put some slits in the top of the rod big end. You get some spray on the pistons and they’ll never stick open or fall out like squirters.

 

[EC17PSE]

I'm building my block now and had Evo squirters to go into a non squirter block but since changed back to my OEM block and I'm keeping the OEM ones in the main bearings. They can be cleaned but changing them will help much better vs cleaning and age. Being stuck open is just from dirt and age and a weak internal spring/valve.

They are not ideal but don't have clearance issues thankfully like the external ones can. To help with more oil on the bearings you can do the taper mod to the bearing, I remember watching this trick on here a while ago, file 1 end of the crank rod bearings. I have only read this trick and I believe it was on here from a few members it was discussed. I'm no pro engine builder by any means. Tips from engine builders helps a lot.

When I looked at my block I don't remember if it had room for the external squirters. I need to have another look at that but most machine shops should be able to to the work and tap threads with the correct tools.

 

[4G63510]

Im building my block now and had evo squirters to go into a non squirter block but since changed back to my oem block and im keeping the oem ones in the main bearings. They can be cleaned but changing them will help much better vs cleaning and age. Being stuck open is just from dirt and age and a weak internal spring/valve.

They are not ideal but dont have clearance issues thankfully like the external ones can, to help with more oil on the bearings you can do the taper mod to the bearing, i remember watching this trick on here a while agofile 1 end of the crank rod bearings, i have only read this trick and i believe it was on here from a few members it was discussed. Im no pro engine builder by any means. Tips from engine builders helps alot.

When i looked at my block i dont remember if it had room for the external squirters. I need to have another look at that but most machine shops should be able to to the work and tap threads with the correct tools.

What bearing trick are you talking about? Is this where you chamfer the crank itself?

Removing the stock oil squirters isn't an issue other than I would need to disassemble the entire engine to remove them. With one failure, I don't want this repeated on a higher end build. That's essentially my thinking here.

 

[EC17PSE]

What bearing trick are you talking about? Is this where you chamfer the crank itself?

Removing the stock oil squirters isn't an issue other than I would need to disassemble the entire engine to remove them. With one failure, I don't want this repeated on a higher end build. That's essentially my thinking here.

you file the end on the outside where the cap and block meet. Let me see if i can find the post or some details on it, its been a LONG time since i read this but always stuck in my brain as a HUH moment of never knowing that.

I never see failures on here on any squirter issues, the ODD one may pop up from bolt backing out but its not common and many are on a 7 bolt still, while the JET style is not as ideal I cannot find any reasons its worse then the bolt on externals, both will cause pressure drops if stuck open and as they both fed from the main gally anyway they share the same issues of bearings going bad on you. I don't see any details on the jets of the insides but i did fine one member on another forum talk about spring inside but i have not taken mine out yet to confirm this. seems logical since if nothing is in there to control the pressures then that's a problem and most of these run at a higher pressure to activate anyway.

I was searching for another version possible adjustable but not a lot comes up for jet style vs bolt in style.

I to don't wish my my build to be a problem so its why everything is just being replaced for NEW as it worked before so why not again, oil changes regular and clean engine is a happy engine and sticking jets wont be a problem. my block was at 172k so lasted fine on jets. I do think its a worry factor but you likely had a 1 in a few thousand issue.

 

[EC17PSE]

@4G63510 https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-t...hrust-bearing-and-setting-crankshaft-endplay/

I cannot find the exact post or video that shows it but here in this link it shows a chamfer / mod for the bearing.

i got king bearings and it seems they already do this as part of the bearing to help with loads and more oiling to the bearing surface so might be worth looking into this also as another extra protection precaution

 

[biglady112]

We road raced to our Galant for years at 500whp and never had an issue. I agree with most here. Remove the oil squirters and don’t overthink it. Watching them back out and fail, I personally have no interest in ever using one. The same goes for using a 7 bolt.

This is 24 years and nearly 300 freshly machined 4G63 engine assemblies worth of experience here.

 

[4G63510]

We road raced to our Galant for years at 500whp and never had an issue. I agree with most here. Remove the oil squirters and don’t overthink it. Watching them back out and fail, I personally have no interest in ever using one. The same goes for using a 7 bolt.

This is 24 years and nearly 300 freshly machined 4G63 engine assemblies worth of experience here.

What method are you using to plug the holes in the 7-bolt. I've only seen one method of tapping the hold and using a small allen head threaded rod to plug it. I'm wondering if there is a less invasive method. I might see if I can get the squirters out without removing the head. If I can, then I'll just replace bearings, gaskets, and seals from removing the crank and rod caps.

If I have to do a full teardown, I'll likely just build the other block I was talking about. If I can save this one, I'm all for it.

 

[biglady112]

Huge advocate of anti 7 bolt talk.

The few I have been forced to deal with however, were all done with a torn down block. Punch them out, drill/tap and insert the corresponding plug with thread locker. Then reassemble.

 

[EC17PSE]

This is whats inside a 2G 7 bolt oil jet. Ball and spring. Hard to know when it opens so one assumes its pressure related on revs to the mains.

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[4G63510]

This is whats inside a 2G 7 bolt oil jet. Ball and spring. Hard to know when it opens so one assumes its pressure related on revs to the mains.

Thanks for the pics. I'm aware of what they look like and how they behave, but it's nice to have some quality images of them. I am mostly interested in trying to use EVO/6-bolt squirters and what that entails. At this point, I'm not seeing any advantages to doing all of the block work. I'm going to see how difficult it will be to swap in new 2G squirters without removing the head. If I can't do that, then I'll continue to investigate these options.

 

[4G63510]

I was able to remove them with some careful work using a slide hammer. There is definite wear on the bearings and a few light grooves from junk passing through. The cank is fine and only needs a polish. I'm just going to replace them with stock squirters since the alternative seems cost prohibitive at this time and others here have stated it's not worth it.

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[jed344]

We always delete them. My own motor has a slit machined in rod so oil in theory will squirt out past rod bearing and up towards piston.