Let's talk about evo turbos on dsms

[Gamble97]

So everyone says the evo turbos won't work on a dsm because it's transverse. Let's talk about this and see if its possible, on how to do it and what would need to be done. We all know the stock evo turbos are great turbos and can get a evo into the low to mid 11s.

So how do you think we can make it work? Turbo the turbo around and do some custom shit?
Run it the way it is and run speed density?

Discuss.

 

[hubz91talontsi]

Why does it matter if it on the other side? Your exactly right, turn the thing around a run some custom lines. Dsmlink and a EVO mas and your set.

 

[Turbo Juice]

They already have 16gs that fit on DSMs.

Those can also go low to mid 11s.....

 

[Gamble97]

They already have 16gs that fit on DSMs.

Those can also go low to mid 11s.....

16gs suck.
Boost spike sucks.
J pipes suck.

Need I continue?

 

[Gamble97]

Why does it matter if it on the other side? Your exactly right, turn the thing around a run some custom lines. Dsmlink and a EVO mas and your set.

I am just curious if anyone has done it or tried. I am not looking to.

Just me thinking and being bored at work again.

 

[Turbo Juice]

16gs suck.
Boost spike sucks.
J pipes suck.

Need I continue?

An evo VIII turbo is a 16g
An evo VIII turbo will boost spike
An evo VII turbo has a j-pipe.



Yes, you are just too bored at work. It is barely 10 on a monday morning there has to be something to do.

 

[Gamble97]

Boy nothing gets past you

 

[donniekak]

I read a post where a guy did it. For all of the effort, time, and money it takes, i would slap on a much better turbo than a stock evo turbo.

 

[Killa_dsm]

Yes it has been done and I've seen pics. Now all I have to do is find the pics.

Edit: Did some searching and maybe I was wrong. But I found a Evo 10 turbo install, and its still a twin scroll.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/323777-1st-twin-scroll-20g-dsm-evo-10-turbo.html

 

[dsm-onster]

An evo VIII turbo is a 16g
An evo VIII turbo will boost spike
An evo VII turbo has a j-pipe.



Yes, you are just too bored at work. It is barely 10 on a monday morning there has to be something to do.

Some things DO get past some. . .

You fail to see the single most important advantage. Twinscroll. It is DEFINATELY worth it . Your evo3 16g setup suffers from back pressure issues that NO evo8+ 16g with proper divided manifold suffers. . . Can you imagine turning the boost up to 30psi and not having to worry about if the hotside is pushing exhaust into the intake because PR in the exhaust manifold is over that of the intake during overlap. Can you imagine more overlap for more topend and less pumping loss. Can you imagine faster spool with more overall flow since the gases are limited to running through the turbine to do work and don't hender the intake charge. All with a 16g setup that's "proven"

 

[El Cuervo]

It could be bolted the same exact way as the evos but with a custom exhaust manifold which runners extend horizontaly to the drivers side. Same with a custom down pipe. This way you'll have roon for an intake and filter. I assume that you will need maf in blow trough set up or speed density. If you want to use the stock maf, then either splice and add extension to the wires/harness that connects to the stock maf or you could fabricate a custom intake pipe that would do a U turn and extend all the way to the stock location. Custom/extended oil and water lines and return line. Most likely ss braided. And that sould be about it. making sure that it there is clearance with the lower radiator pipe and main radiator fan. And I believe that would be it. Its possible.

 

[toofast82]

Can you imagine turning the boost up to 30psi and not having to worry about if the hotside is pushing exhaust into the intake because PR in the exhaust manifold is over that of the intake during overlap.

It doesn't seem to me that all these e316g/e85 400whp+ guys are too worried about it
Agreed, the evo twin scroll is a nice advantage over 7cm housing, but in the reality, what has this evo8 turbo done that hasn't been done with the e316g. Or maybe should I say "has the evo8 16g done what some have done with the e316g?"
I've seen Lucas English put up some great times with his stock turbo evo8 for sure as well as we've seen what he's done with the e316g
For the amount of work to put the e816g on our cars, we'd probably be better off slapping one of those hx35s or hx40s you've been selling us on. Theres a distinct compressor flow advantage and plenty capable turbines and housings available.

 

[andy4g63]

^^^ Exactly... To the OP, check some of the threads, regarding Lucas English and their E3-16G cars...
This is a small turbo. I would rather put twin scroll on someting, that is worth it: like GT40R; BW S3XX: Holset HX-52...

 

[toofast82]

This is a small turbo. I would rather put twin scroll on someting, that is worth it: like GT40R; BW S3XX: Holset HX-52...

It may be worth the effort though if you were going with a twin scroll setup but using a larger compressor wheel than the e8 16g. Maybe like an evoGreen or Red. That way you get the much increased compressor flow as well as the advantages to twin sroll. Not many peoples goals require something as big as a hx52 or gt40r.
Still though there are plenty of turbo choices for our dsms, for each power goal, that can still spool/flow fairly well and require little/none modification or customization to put on the car.

 

[Gamble97]

So nobody is open to new ideas? All you can say is evoIII 16g?

Ok so maybe the evo8 turbo isn't crazy but the evo9 turbo is freaking awesome. Why wouldn't you want that twin scroll badass on your car?

 

[dsm-onster]

^^^ the evo 10 turbo is where you want it. Isn't that the 20g with reverse twinscroll?

Anyway. I still think the evo3 16g turbine housing, or turbine wheel, or combination is too small for it's evo3 compressor wheel. That compressor benefits from a better flowing turbine. The evo3 16g compressor flows 42lb/min and the turbine wheel is the same one found on the stock 14b turbo for the stock 1g 5speed dsm. You can do better with more flow for sure. And the twin scroll housing allows more flow without the sacrifice in spool.

. . . Of course all anyone is going to say is evo3 16g "all the way baby yea!!!" It's not like some big names havn't make big numbers with it with their knowledge and expertice. Yep an hx series holset would do the trick and flow way more, and probably spool about the same. But these evo8-9 turbos are going for cheap since the morons at evom seem to think that twin scroll doesn't work. They really don't care that every single auto manufacturer in the world incorporating turbocharging have migrated to twinscroll tech. "It's just a marketing ploy."

Still, guys like Kiggly and other 'big names' report hellatiously low back pressure and incredible results for the boost they run. The ones who run the open scroll 16g don't complain about back pressure because they havn't measured it. And still the evo8 16g has a higher whp record than the evo3 16g. Look at the MPH and weight of the Lucas English EVO. Click. What can YOU do with less back pressure from your evo 3 16g? What can YOU do with less pumping losses with the same compression (more aggresive cam timing possible)? ????????? The lucas english team did 550whp with the evo9 turbo. Click.

 

[El Cuervo]

Well alot of people will say that its not worth it because there are better turbos. True but its also about making something diferent. Look at what 99gst racer just did to his car. Compound turbo. I'm sure thatt he is netting great results with it. It is expensive to do something different. Specially when one doesn't have the proper skills in fabrication, tuning etc.
My brother has an FC RX-7 10 aniversary collection. Its the 13b turbo II. The car really loves to blow manifold to turbo gaskets. Anyhow, when the car as that exhaust leak, its extremely slow. Rotary engines are not famous for their torque power. NO low end whatsoever. But as soon as we replace the gasket, WOW!! Honestly the car doesn't feel turbocharged. It feels like it has a V6 in terms of low end. The turbo is a stock twin scroll turbo. No lag at all and they are very loud too. . Car is completely stock except for exhaust system. There is something to gain out of a twin scroll vs a non twin scroll. Even on a small turbo such as an evo3 16g. Even on a 14b turbo.

 

[toofast82]

Would it be possible maybe to modify or make a manifold to switch the scrolls/flange to make it face the same direction as our cars and then do simple water/oil line and piping modifications?
The evo10 thread used a modified evox manifold he made, but the turbo already faces our direction.

 

[Gamble97]

Would it be possible maybe to modify or make a manifold to switch the scrolls/flange to make it face the same direction as our cars and then do simple water/oil line and piping modifications?
The evo10 thread used a modified evox manifold he made, but the turbo already faces our direction.

This is my thought the only downside is that I'm sure whoever would make one would want $800+.
Are the head flanges on the evo the same as the dsm? Wondering if you can turn the evo turbo around and use the stock evo manifold and bolt it right on.
The o2 housing and downpipe would the trickest and most expensive part.

 

[dsm-onster]

If the o2 housing would be the hardest part then I don't see why this would be sucha terribly costly feat. I don't know about flange and turbo orientation. But I do know that welding is honestly rather easy Seams like you have to cut the flange and reweld on a dsm flange at the head. Then you monkey with an evo8-9 outlet flange with better flowing tubular piping. Wala. hella fast spool and great topend flow.

 

[RvlutionMtrsprt]

A local friend of mine has an Evo8 turbo on his 2G and it hauls ass. Everything about it is better than a regular Evo3 16g. It took a custom manifold which he made himself, he tweaked the lines to fit and made his own intercooler piping. It wasn't rocket science, it wasn't hard, and his car is a blast so it was worth every bit of time/energy he spent.

 

[toofast82]

A local friend of mine has an Evo8 turbo on his 2G and it hauls ass. Everything about it is better than a regular Evo3 16g. It took a custom manifold which he made himself, he tweaked the lines to fit and made his own intercooler piping. It wasn't rocket science, it wasn't hard, and his car is a blast so it was worth every bit of time/energy he spent.

You know we would all love to see some pics
Did he do it forward facing?

 

[dsm-onster]

Pix please

 

[Gamble97]

Oh shit, a forward facing evo turbo would be sweet. This would be soooo cost affective I would love to do it.
Only thing is I can't weld. Can someone confirm weather or not the head flanges on the evo and dsm are the same or different.

 

[Gamble97]

I got a pm back from Ron Shearer, both the head flanges are one in the same. Meaning the evo manifold will bolt right up to the 2g or 1g head.
Now I has an idea, since the turbo is backwards, what if someone with a cnc machine or some skills can make a plate out of steel say 3/4" thick to where 4 bolts will go up from the bottom of the turbo into the spacer. Then have holes in the spacer to where the manifold would bolt to it, but make it backwards this way you can turn the turbo around and it's facing the correct orentation. Slap on your intake, oil feed and make a oil drain. All you need is an o2 housing to bolt to our downpipe and it's a done deal.
It would be 2 custom pieces.
Then for the o2 housing, buy a megan o2 housing for a dsm and one for a evo. Cut and weld the 2 pieces together.
Ta Da!
If someone could make it, I would test fit it on my car.




Shit, I wish I had a machine shop.