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Tuning & Engine Management: 4G63 EPROMS, ECU, MAF, knock, EGT, wideband, datalogging, fuel trims, etc. Read this Forum's Strict Guidelines.

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Old 05-05-2010, 03:09 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #1 (permalink)
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Ideal Wideband AFR at idle?


Exactly as the title states. What is the normal or ideal wideband o2 AFR reading when idling at 750 rpms? I searched but got nothing. On my turbo swap, fresh rebuild (profile is current), brand new AEM wideband installed on the downpipe, after the bend, before the flex. Super lean with factory injectors, 14b, no tuning device at idle.

AFPR is set at 37 with the hose off
Timing is 5 BTDC
Idle is 750-800
AFR is 17 to ---

Is this good or bad? When I drive the AFR falls, haven't been WOT or even over 2500 rpms yet. I need the rest of my exhaust before I can take it on the roads.

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Old 05-05-2010, 03:13 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #2 (permalink)
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It should cycle around 14.7 once it's warmed up.


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Old 05-05-2010, 05:59 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #3 (permalink)
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How/what are you using to provide the narrowband input to the ECU required to support the ECU going into closed loop?

Without it the ECU will go into a limp mode.
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Old 05-05-2010, 06:37 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #4 (permalink)
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How/what are you using to provide the narrowband input to the ECU required to support the ECU going into closed loop?

Without it the ECU will go into a limp mode.
I have a brand new NTK o2 sensor in the o2 sensor housing.
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:07 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #5 (permalink)
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Good. Is the narrowband cycling?

If the wideband isn't tracking it as the ECU dithers the AFR to cause the NB to switch then you might have a leak between the two or drawing fresh air in the unfinished exhaust and throwing the reading off.
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:59 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #6 (permalink)
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How would I tell if the narrowband is cycling?

The exhaust ends at the downpipe for the moment, I hadn't thought about that making it read lean. Hmm. I hope to have the rest of the exhaust by the end of the week.
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Old 05-05-2010, 09:19 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #7 (permalink)
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How would I tell if the narrowband is cycling?
Datalogger or voltmeter.
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Old 05-05-2010, 09:26 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #8 (permalink)
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Datalogger or voltmeter.
I have a voltmeter, no dataloger yet (v3 lite is next on my list).
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Old 05-05-2010, 09:46 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #9 (permalink)
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Should be near 12.0 on a cold start and lean out as the car gets warmer.
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Old 05-05-2010, 10:14 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #10 (permalink)
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mine starts at 13-14 when cold then when it warms up its anywhere from 14.5-16 u get your wideband new or used?
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Old 05-06-2010, 05:04 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #11 (permalink)
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mine starts at 13-14 when cold then when it warms up its anywhere from 14.5-16 u get your wideband new or used?
Wideband is brand new. It's an AEM UEGO Wideband.
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:06 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #12 (permalink)
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do you have the gauge set right there's a little dial on the back of the gauge that they swear the set on lambda before the leave the factory, but i would double check it with your owners manual. If that doesn't work i would check your ignition timing probably advanced to much.
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Old 05-09-2010, 06:06 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #13 (permalink)
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With my EMS, I have to keep the idle between 13.4-13.9 AFR. Having the 272's, 14.7 while idling will cause it to surge. So I had to richen it up a pinch and turn the idle up to about 950.

Definately check for exhaust leaks, air could easily be back feeding into your open downpipe giving leaner-than-normal readings.


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Old 05-09-2010, 09:49 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #14 (permalink)
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Thanks for all the numbers. I must have an exhaust leak. I got the rest of the exhaust bolted up and i'm still getting --- at idle. Driving everything is good, high 14's/low 15's cruising. High 12's/low 13's boosting (set at factory boost, about 11 psi, while I break the engine in). But when I idle or am off the gas, high 17's and then off the gauge.

I have a 2g o2 housing feeding into a 3" punishment racing downpipe, I think the leak is there because I can't get a socket on the nuts. I'll have to work with it some more.
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Old 05-09-2010, 09:54 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #15 (permalink)
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had the same issue and it was exhaust leak at the o2 housing and the downpipe.


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Old 05-10-2010, 07:52 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #16 (permalink)
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I had a similar leak there also. I ended up switching the 19mm nuts to 17mm with the same threads inside so I could get a socket on them. They haven't backed off yet.


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Old 05-10-2010, 12:04 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #17 (permalink)
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I had a similar leak there also. I ended up switching the 19mm nuts to 17mm with the same threads inside so I could get a socket on them. They haven't backed off yet.
I was just told the same thing today by the guy who built my block. Good advice! Do you remember the thread size? Also where did you find the nuts?
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Old 05-10-2010, 09:57 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #18 (permalink)
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I think the leak is there because I can't get a socket on the nuts. I'll have to work with it some more.
Here's what I did to solve that problem on my car:


[IMG][/IMG]


[IMG][/IMG]


Did the grinding on the tips of this crowfoot with a bench grinder and cold water for dunking. Those stock 19mm nuts are super quality if they haven't been rounded or rusted.

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Old 05-18-2010, 05:37 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #19 (permalink)
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The crows foot works too but I just dug through my bolt drawers and found 2 17mm nuts. The thread is 12 x 1.25 i believe but I'm not 100% on that.


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