Evo 8 Ecu In 2g Works!!

GSXDNA · 10-31-2008, 06:24 PM

*

*****Updated 5.10.09*****

Months of members testing, troubleshooting and experimenting has given us a very good manual to use for performing this swap. Special thanks to RRE for their initial help with this project, and thanks to all the members who've contributed to this posting. This thread will explain how to install and use an Evo 8 Ecu in a 2G DSM, in order to take advantage of the EcuFlash tunning program.

STEP ONE: WIRING

Although the wiring for this project is relatively simple, the perspective when working with the fronts and backs of Ecu harness can be difficult to grasp at first. The most common question I've received is concerning how to gain the proper perspective when wiring. The first step is to go to Mach V forums and purchase an Evo 8 Harness Color Coded ECU Patch Harness - Evo 8 - ECU Tuning And Management. Then, refer to the four reference pins indicated in the below diagram to understand the perspective to use when performing all the wiring chnages:

Now that we have the harness and the correct perspective, we can began with the wiring changes. Below are the pinouts for the ECUs along with a description of what pins need to be swapped/changed/disconnected:

STEP TWO: ROM DEFINITIONS

Before you will be able to get a 2G to run with an EVO 8 ECU, you will need to find a ROM image with the engine immobilizer disabled. Join OpenEcu.org to obtain access to ROM downloads (Most EDM EVO 8 ROMs have the immobilizer disabled). OpenEcu.org is also where you can download (for free, legally) the EcuFlash tuning software, which allows load-based tuning and a great level of tuning flexibility. OpenEcu is a great place to learn more about tuning and the EcuFlash software.

But before you can do any flashing (including the initial immobilizer flash required to start the car for the first time), you will need to buy the reflashing cable from Tactrix.

STEP 3: INITIAL TUNNING

For a 2G, the MAF size in EcuFlash will need to be changed to 260. You will also need to make the following Maf scaling changes for the EVO 8 Rom to work properly with a 2G (courtesy of Johnnyboy55):

You will also need to scale your injectors down to 400-450 (assuming you are running the stock injectors).

STEP 4: TUNNING

Now the fun of tunning can begin. Log onto evolutionm.net or openecu.org to learn how to tune using EcuFlash.

Please PM me with any corrections/questions/comments.

delta448 · 10-31-2008, 07:41 PM

Sweet!

Were any of the stock sensors an issue? I have been anxiously awaiting the results since you first posted about trying this in the Scan/Flash threads. I knew RRE would get it working, just didn't expect it so quickly.

Looks like I may have a new wiring project soon.

DSMunknown · 10-31-2008, 08:51 PM

Interesting. Wonder if the 9s or 10s could also be compatible.

(Something I should have thought of, damn it!)

TSIMonsteR · 10-31-2008, 08:56 PM

whats the point? More tuning options?

GVR4592 · 10-31-2008, 08:57 PM

We've been using 2g dsmlink ecu's in Evo's since 2003, why did it take almost 6 years for people to figure out that the two are compatible?

z24frank · 10-31-2008, 09:55 PM

Ok now Im confused you have actually been using dsm ecus in evos?So why is everyone so happy about evo ecu in a dsm they use our ecus?????

JMiller · 10-31-2008, 10:26 PM

No, he said Evo's have been using DSM Link which is a tuning program for DSMs.

delta448 · 10-31-2008, 10:43 PM

The Evo guys previously used eprom DSM ECUs so that they could run DSMLink for it's good tuning abilities. This was what they had experience using and what they could fairly easily create a good tune with for a smaller investment and less headaches than a standalone EMS. Now that more support for the Evo has arrived, the Evo ECU is now a cheaper path for DSMers on a budget and moderate power goals because it can be easily flashed without the need for finding an eprom ECU, soldering a socket and buying a custom chip. A freeware program called EcuFlash, along with a $25 EvoScan datalogger and $99 cable provides all the tuning capabilities most DSMers will ever need.

Gamble97 · 10-31-2008, 10:54 PM

DSMLink can work in an evo but you will loose the mivec.
As for the evo maf it flows like air than the 2g maf (IIRC), so when you swapped ecu's did you put in the evo8 maf or leave the stocker?
Also is this a plug and play deal or do you need to change any pin outs?

GSXDNA · 10-31-2008, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamble97

DSMLink can work in an evo but you will loose the mivec.
As for the evo maf it flows like air than the 2g maf (IIRC), so when you swapped ecu's did you put in the evo8 maf or leave the stocker?
Also is this a plug and play deal or do you need to change any pin outs?

I left my stock MAF in. This is what I need to figure out how to compensate for. RRE used a Evo8 to 2G wiring harness, and just switched around a few of the wires. So now, i can simply just unplug my Evo 8 ecu if i need to, and swap my 2g ecu back in within a matter of minutes.

Any idea how i should compensate for using the stock maf?

98GSXtreme07 · 10-31-2008, 11:22 PM

Since this discovery does this mean RRE will have a cable available for the public to buy to make the Evo ECU and the 2g ECU easily swappable? I hope so... I'm so glad this works.

I forget if you have EvoScan GSXDNA but if you do, you could just clear that P0505 code and see if that fixes the problem. I get it every now and then. You can try adjusting the BISS or maybe it's your ISC. I'm not sure if this will help though because your using the Evo VIII ECU.

Boost Demon · 11-01-2008, 03:06 AM

Sounds like if you buy an Evo VIII MAF it would fix your problem. I'll be running DSM Link in an Evo early next year

.

Sam@RRE · 11-01-2008, 09:51 AM

Thanks David for putting this all out there.

I know your excited about it, but for now just leave it as "It works, it took some harness modifications and ROM Modification. With the help from the guys at RRE harness and remote possibility"

As far as availability on this, we'll see how much interest gets generated, and I'll talk it over with Mike.

Its just we have soo much on our hands at the shop right now that no one hears about or will hear about, and RND on the EVOX, I'm probably the only guy who still cares about DSM's (I still drive one as my daily driver/fun car and my girlfriend hates the car even more now that its broken, again.)

ewoevo · 11-01-2008, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam@RRE

Thanks David for putting this all out there.

I know your excited about it, but for now just leave it as "It works, it took some harness modifications and ROM Modification. With the help from the guys at RRE and Sam for research on the harness and remote possibility"

As far as availability on this, we'll see how much interest gets generated, and I'll talk it over with Mike.

Sam,

Thanks for trying this for us. I, like many others, would like to know which pins were swapped to make it function. I already have an EVO VIII ECU and extension harness, so I just need to know which pins to swap. Also, where did you get the EDM ROM from? I definitely think this will be a very viable option for 2G guys, as I used ECUflash on 2 EVO's and really liked it.

Thanks Again!

elementalwindx · 11-01-2008, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam@RRE

Thanks David for putting this all out there.

I know your excited about it, but for now just leave it as "It works, it took some harness modifications and ROM Modification. With the help from the guys at RRE and Sam for research on the harness and remote possibility"

As far as availability on this, we'll see how much interest gets generated, and I'll talk it over with Mike.

Its just we have soo much on our hands at the shop right now that no one hears about or will hear about, and RND on the EVOX, I'm probably the only guy who still cares about DSM's (I still drive one as my daily driver/fun car and my girlfriend hates the car even more now that its broken, again.)

wtf?

I never understand why people want to keep all the good shit secret. Screw those people anyways.

I still prefer dsmlink over this

Just having a membership on the forum is almost worth the price in full anyways.

GSXDNA · 11-01-2008, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam@RRE

Thanks David for putting this all out there.

I know your excited about it, but for now just leave it as "It works, it took some harness modifications and ROM Modification. With the help from the guys at RRE and Sam for research on the harness and remote possibility"

As far as availability on this, we'll see how much interest gets generated, and I'll talk it over with Mike.

Its just we have soo much on our hands at the shop right now that no one hears about or will hear about, and RND on the EVOX, I'm probably the only guy who still cares about DSM's (I still drive one as my daily driver/fun car and my girlfriend hates the car even more now that its broken, again.)

Sam,

I intentionally didn't mention what pins were swapped, or where to get the harness, out of respect and consideration for RRE and the work you did. The only item i mentioned of any significance is the ROM that was used, which as u know is publicly available info anyways.

Even though I don't feel I've posted anything that would be considered infringing on yours or RRE's IP, I'll try to keep this post restricted to just status updates and info on any problems I'm having, excluding any details about any work you or RRE does. Sound agreeable?

You can't disown me yet, because I still have some bugs to work through with this ECU that I need your help on

Sam@RRE · 11-01-2008, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSXDNA

Sam,

I intentionally didn't mention what pins were swapped, or where to get the harness, out of respect and consideration for RRE and the work you did. The only item i mentioned of any significance is the ROM that was used, which as u know is publicly available info anyways.

Even though I don't feel I've posted anything that would be considered infringing on yours or RRE's IP, I'll try to keep this post restricted to just status updates and info on any problems I'm having, excluding any details about any work you or RRE does. Sound agreeable?

You can't disown me yet, because I still have some bugs to work through with this ECU that I need your help on

Thats totally cool, we still need to finish up a few things on the car, tune it, and then we'll see.

And elementalwindx Thomas From DSMlink is a cool guy, helped out the community a lot. I don't know if you now but when he first came out with Link, people were buying it and copying his chips and reselling them for cheaper, reasons like that is why things are a secret. Thats why the DSMlink forums are private, thats why you cant just buy a DSMlink cable/adapter. Because the chips are easily copied with a eeprom burner. You aren't paying $500 for a 10cent chip and $20 cable, your paying for his long hours of development and reverse engineering the 1g/2g ecu's. Your paying for the great support on the DSMlink forums from Dave and Thomas. IMHO, DSMlink is still one of the best affordable Tuning Software bar none. I've used Tunerpro/Ostrich, DSMlink, ECUFlash, AEMPro and others. I myself am a DSMlink user, tune my car myself and tuned some of my friends cars. Played with Tunerpro/ostrich in a 1G and its great, just as powerful and affordable as ECUflash in a 2g, but the only thing it lacks is logging capability, your tune will only be as good as how well you know the cars bounderies. And AEM, is the bomb diggity yo, but I wouldn't call it affordable next to Link. What the difference between AEM and DSMlink, true speed density with infinite load tables among many other things. Even if speed density is incorporated in DSMlink, you still are limited to max load cells.

And what do you think will happen to DSMlink if this EVO8 ECU thing hits the fan and 2G guys are looking for powerful tooning tool and the prices boil down to $500 vs $150~$250. Us at RRE wont profit off of it, and Thomas and Dave will lose business. Don't know if you noticed but the DSM community is dying, all the vendors who develop things are moving to newer platforms. This EVO8 ECU thing will only take away more from whats left like the guys at ECMtuning and us are RRE. So don't go throwing around that attitude around here elementalwindx.

For you its a hobby, for us it's a way of life. It what we enjoy doing and it puts food on our tables and pays the bills.

delta448 · 11-01-2008, 02:10 PM

Sam, I totally understand where you're coming from, I appreciate your position and I agree that DSMLink should come at the price it does, but there's one thing I'm not too sure if you've realized. DSMers are notorious for finding the cheapest way to reach a goal. I am in no way trying to incite a riot here, but if no tuning shop develops this possibility, it's still only a matter of time before a few smart freelancers with the right resources comes up with the solution all on their own. Just like the way EFI tuning began.

Someone somewhere will put it all together and either make a killing selling the pre-packaged secrets, or they'll turn the process into public information and completely ruin the price competition for all the vendors. The only thing left to save the market then will be the huge price jump that will be slapped on the ass of all the used Evo 8 ECUs.

If RRE gets into this early enough (which you obviously are) and offers the correct angle, you could be looking at a nice little niche market. The right aim would place this at a step above a piggyback, and a step below the new DSMLink being deployed soon. Personally, I think Dave and Tom will survive just fine when V3 gets released. There's plenty of us that would still rather use Link I'm sure, especially if we're already familiar with it's awesome tuning interface and the good support available on the DSMLink forums.

I think $150 for a Evo 8 ECU is incredibly cheap, and atypical considering that you can't even buy a 95 eprom anymore for less than ~$200 in used condition. If swapping in the Evo ECU actually gets to the point where it works well, I'd expect to see the price of used Evo ECUs to jump tremendously, especially after the Evo guys start to realize they can expect us DSMers to pay $250-300 for their almost-new unwanted boards. Add in the price of the cable and software at $125, and then throw in the pre-wired removable ECU harness and modified sensors, which YOU will provide all ready-to-go and we could easily be almost to the cost of the current Link version, minus the eprom ECU.
Whatchathinkin'?

elementalwindx · 11-01-2008, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam@RRE

And what do you think will happen to DSMlink if this EVO8 ECU thing hits the fan and 2G guys are looking for powerful tooning tool and the prices boil down to $500 vs $150~$250. Us at RRE wont profit off of it, and Thomas and Dave will lose business. Don't know if you noticed but the DSM community is dying, all the vendors who develop things are moving to newer platforms. This EVO8 ECU thing will only take away more from whats left like the guys at ECMtuning and us are RRE. So don't go throwing around that attitude around here elementalwindx.

For you its a hobby, for us it's a way of life. It what we enjoy doing and it puts food on our tables and pays the bills.

True when you put it that way.

asexton6969 · 11-01-2008, 02:39 PM

I like this idea of putting an evo 8 ecu in. I understand what you guys are saying about stepping on the toes of ECMtuning. I just can't justify spending the $500 on dsmlink and $200+ on an ECU. There are so many dsm'ers out there that do not care to buy those things. These cars are getting to be old. It just isn't worth it to pay that amount. If I could afford a newer evo and the only tuning option was something like dsmlink. Yea I would warrant the cost, but not for these 10+ year old cars.

I would rather spend the time to R&D this myself than to HAVE to buy dsmlink and an Eprom ecu.

Sam@RRE · 11-01-2008, 03:23 PM

Glad you guys understand, again, it just happend yesterday, give it some time, if everything proves to be good and working right, I'll see if Mike wants to market the swap harness. Thats what we get out of it, and ECMtuning's product won't be overshadowed due to the availability of EVO8 ECU's. I'm actually looking right now into making 95-96 chassis cars flashable by creating a flash port for the car.

Right now I'm sitting here buried in EVO8 ECU stuff, 95-96 wiring, putting together my motor for my car, playing Starcraft, and a toothache. So life's kinda nuts.

Afroclipse · 11-01-2008, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSMunknown

Interesting. Wonder if the 9s or 10s could also be compatible.

(Something I should have thought of, damn it!)

EVO X? really man really?

Sam@RRE · 11-01-2008, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSMunknown

Interesting. Wonder if the 9s or 10s could also be compatible.

(Something I should have thought of, damn it!)

EVO9 has mivec, 3 connector ecu. EVOX whole now engine and platform, why would you want to? The main purpose of the swap is to allow for full control of the ECU. The ECU itself doesn't make power, its the fact that you can tune timing and fuel maps through ecuflash.

asexton6969 · 11-01-2008, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam@RRE

Glad you guys understand, again, it just happend yesterday, give it some time, if everything proves to be good and working right, I'll see if Mike wants to market the swap harness. Thats what we get out of it, and ECMtuning's product won't be overshadowed due to the availability of EVO8 ECU's. I'm actually looking right now into making 95-96 chassis cars flashable by creating a flash port for the car.

Right now I'm sitting here buried in EVO8 ECU stuff, 95-96 wiring, putting together my motor for my car, playing Starcraft, and a toothache. So life's kinda nuts.

Starcraft 2 needs to come out already with Diablo 3 to follow. I am going to disappear for a few months when those drop.

Oh and the only other thing I want to throw in, 95 Eprom Ecu's are only going to become more and more extinct as accidents happen and Eprom ecu's will slowly be destroyed. Life changes, Americans used to buy nothing but ford, dodge, chevy. Now look at them, they are dying.

GSXDNA · 11-01-2008, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam@RRE

EVO9 has mivec, 3 connector ecu. EVOX whole now engine and platform, why would you want to? The main purpose of the swap is to allow for full control of the ECU. The ECU itself doesn't make power, its the fact that you can tune timing and fuel maps through ecuflash.

Besides, isn't the X CAN?

ewoevo · 11-01-2008, 08:09 PM

Yes it is.

webconnect · 11-01-2008, 09:49 PM

I'm sorry but the guys from dsmlink are shooting themselves in the foot. V3 actually looks good, but v1 and v2 are pretty elementary. I am actually about 60% done with my own setup that I have written and connected myself. I am not basing it off of dsmlink, but it will have all the features that any tuner would want. I started only a year ago, when I took my first java class!

p.s. - My setup will use usb, require low computer requirements, and it will be free.

Gamble97 · 11-01-2008, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webconnect

I'm sorry but the guys from dsmlink are shooting themselves in the foot. V3 actually looks good, but v1 and v2 are pretty elementary. I am actually about 60% done with my own setup that I have written and connected myself. I am not basing it off of dsmlink, but it will have all the features that any tuner would want. I started only a year ago, when I took my first java class!

p.s. - My setup will use usb, require low computer requirements, and it will be free.

Well good for you. You obviously know what your doing, but for the most part people that buy dsmlink want to learn themselves. Also part of what your paying for when buying dsmlink is the ease of use, and the awesome forum that you can be a part of. Post up your log and people will gladly help you out and whatnot.

SpoolinTalonAWD · 11-01-2008, 10:54 PM

I dont think ECM Tuning's toes are getting stepped on.
They only deal with Eproms ECUs.
There are only so many available, not everybody can get one anyway.

The only way to keep making money is to keep coming out with different and better products/services.

I'm curious to see what happens with this.

bpestilence · 11-02-2008, 01:16 AM

I understand that certain companies want to protect their niches... But the world only has so many EPROM ECUs. The ability to use OBDII Evo ECUs and maintain tunability will be a great boon to the DSM community, especially if the product is easy to install and use.

I am interested. Unable to find a '95 ECU for less than an arm and a leg, I am currently opting for the F/IC-8 as a tuning option.