Im putting on a tial 38mm WG and it looks like it doesnt need a gasket because on the inlet side it has a protruding ring that looks like it is there to seal the WG to the flang. I cant use a gasket with a fire ring because it is too thick and i have clearance issues, so should i use a gasket or not. THe WG is going on the DNP manifold to o2 housing recirculating kit. http://www.dnperformance.com/images/dnp32_2.JPG

i have that exact setup and i say you will need the gaskets. agp has some nice ones

I currently run that particular DNP set-up and I am somewhat disappointed in the gaskets. After only 1000 miles or so, the gasket between the WG and 5th runner (gasket BEFORE the wg) has developed a substantial leak. The gasket deteriorates and only the wire mesh remains in places. Not only does this cause unstable boost conditions but also turns the underside of my hood black among other negative ramafications. I dont know if this is due to the design of the DNP products or a flaw in the Tial gaskets. But as far as I am concerned, it is becoming common knowledge that the TIAL gaskets are rather useless. When I replace mine in the next a week or so, I will opt for one of our metal gaskets and be done with this subject.

Just something to keep in mind....

so far from what i researched, you may be able to use Permatrex copper gasket maker on the WG to seal it. Apparently the turbo only reaches temps around 500F but the exhaust gasses are what heats up so much. I tried to use the thicker gaskets with fire rings on the WG but they are too thick for the setup and trow the alignment of it off as to where it is nearly impossible to get the WG on. I think if they would make a thin SS gasket like what is used on the exhaust manifold it would work great. If you have anything else to add please do.

I don't have the DNP setup, but I do have a 38mm Tial on a tubular o2 housing. I am not using a gasket(just the ring) and I have had no leaks at all for 2 months now.

Like GermanDSM said, the supplied paper gaskets suck. Mine burned out in less than 1000 miles. That prompted me to make my own, whih didnt last more than 100 miles. Then, I found these.....
http://www.dsmtuners.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=24956&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

eclipse98GST said:

so far from what i researched, you may be able to use Permatrex copper gasket maker on the WG to seal it. Apparently the turbo only reaches temps around 500F but the exhaust gasses are what heats up so much.

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No, trust me, Permatex doesn't make anything that will withstand the temps of out exhaust manifolds.....

eclipse98GST said:

I tried to use the thicker gaskets with fire rings on the WG but they are too thick for the setup

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What thicker gaskets?

eclipse98GST said:

I think if they would make a thin SS gasket like what is used on the exhaust manifold it would work great.

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Like these copper ones?

These work great for me. They compress down alot, so they are not much thicker than the paper gaskets that come with it.

when i say thicker im refering to the ones that RoadRaceEngineering sells. They are pretty thick. Are the copper ones as thin as the paper ones?

99gst_racer said:

Like GermanDSM said, the supplied paper gaskets suck. Mine burned out in less than 1000 miles. That prompted me to make my own, whih didnt last more than 100 miles. Then, I found these.....
http://www.dsmtuners.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=24956&sort=1&cat=500&page=1


No, trust me, Permatex doesn't make anything that will withstand the temps of out exhaust manifolds.....

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Your competly 100% INCORRECT, SORRY.


Peramatex Copper Seal will seal EVERYTHING. I used it on my Turbo/Manifold tasket, Manifold/Wastegate gasket, turbo/downpiep gasket and every single gasket in the exhaust. Hell I used it on my intake manifold to head and it didn't leak at 30psi.

I NEVER leaks if you put it on smoothly and evenly. It withstands huge temperatures and pressure and will not blow. Gaskets suck ass and are for guys who havn't blown them out yet and gotten pissed. Even metal gaskets blow eventually. Copper Seal never did on my car. WIth 150 passes down the track and crazy street driving nothing ever leaked even with EGT's into the 1700's nothin...

Copper Seal is the shit for any exhaust gasket anywhere..

eclipse98GST said:

when i say thicker im refering to the ones that RoadRaceEngineering sells. They are pretty thick. Are the copper ones as thin as the paper ones?

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The copper ones are a little thicker, but they compress alot and seal better, and last longer, etc.... SBR is selling them now too, but they want $24 each I believe.

DSMJim said:

Your competly 100% INCORRECT, SORRY.

Peramatex Copper Seal will seal EVERYTHING. I used it on my Turbo/Manifold tasket, Manifold/Wastegate gasket, turbo/downpiep gasket and every single gasket in the exhaust. Hell I used it on my intake manifold to head and it didn't leak at 30psi.

I NEVER leaks if you put it on smoothly and evenly. It withstands huge temperatures and pressure and will not blow. Gaskets suck ass and are for guys who havn't blown them out yet and gotten pissed. Even metal gaskets blow eventually. Copper Seal never did on my car. WIth 150 passes down the track and crazy street driving nothing ever leaked even with EGT's into the 1700's nothin...

Copper Seal is the shit for any exhaust gasket anywhere..

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I've never had any luck with any of the permatex stuff near the manifold. Anywhere else, yeah, but heat always seemed to kill it for me. They don't have anything rated much higher than 500* or so, do they? I've never tried using it on the TIAL gaskets before, but the problem doesn't lye with the gasket seal. It's the fact that the gasket is completely disintegrating and burning away. Thanks for the info though... I'll definitely take that into consideration for other gaskets now.

PS - Do you think Copper Seal would have saved these? I don't think it would have, but I cant say that for sure..... Usually, for copper seal to work efficiently, you need a decent gasket to start out with in the first place.

Permetex is the way to go. It gives a good seal it will blowout but it also last longer than those gaskets. The copper gaskets are nice but they would not work with my old wastegate setup.

try turbonetics gasket.

spooledu1st said:

The copper gaskets are nice but they would not work with my old wastegate setup.

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Why is that? What exactly didnt work?

I had a Victory Performance o2 housing setup for an external. There was no way to fit both gaskets in there.

yo2001 said:

try turbonetics gasket.

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Are you referring to the Deltagate gaskets? The deltagate's valve is only 35mm, hence a smaller ID on the gasket. It might fit, but it could pose as a restriction. I wouldnt recommend using it.

off the deltagate, yes. it's same size as what comes on the Tial. I've reused mine about 20 times now.

PS - Do you think Copper Seal would have saved these? I don't think it would have, but I cant say that for sure..... Usually, for copper seal to work efficiently, you need a decent gasket to start out with in the first place.

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Yeah, it would have.

Here's the thing. Those gaskets blow out because they are so thick and the exhaust has so much surface area to push on and burn against.

When you use copper seal it's literally a metal to metal contact with an ever so thin layer that seals it. Copper seal does not go rubbery like the lower temp stuff. IT acctually turns into a hard powder after it heats up and seals the area really nicely. When you remove it there is just this thin layer or orange dust that you scrub away and then re-seal if you remove and re-install the part.

If you used copper seal the wastegate would never blow out. I have had so many cars into the shop that have blown turbo/wastegate/downpipe gaskets because of using a crap gasket it's not even funny. We ALWAYS pull the gaskets and copper seal them. THey never return for a leaking gasket. These are customers we know too who are not just not returning. THey are cars that come back all the time and we inspect and they don't leak. Even after many hard miles at really high temps still nothing.

what jim is saying is right. this is what i had to do when i had my twin turbo mustang. i could not find a header gasket that would last more than one pass. i milled my exhaust manifold straight used the high temp copper rtv and never looked back. until i blew it up that is

Here's a little info on those copper gaskets.
Many people are asking about the thickness. I dont know if these pics will help at all, but here you go: Here's a couple pics showing the compressed thickness while installed. PIC#1 PIC#2

I just pulled my Tial off a few hours ago to inspect the copper gasket. It looks really good still. A positive seal has remained since I installed it. It is not damaged in any way; it's hardly even dirty. With the use of these gaskets and the Tial sealing ring, it looks like this would be a good choice for a worry free set-up.

Jim, you are talking about Copper RTV not Copper spray right? Sorry for the stupid question I just want to make sure that I understand correctly.

Neither my friend nor I run gaskets, I had more exhaust leaks with the gasket. Now it dosn't leak at all.

When you say your using copper rtv are you using only copper rtv or rtv + gasket?

Majite said:

When you say your using copper spray are you using only copper spray or
spray + gasket?

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its not spray. its high temp copper rtv.

at majite changing what he said^^^

heh forgot i was editing that got distracted at work.

Yes just Permatex High-Temp Ultra Copper RTV Silicone Gasket Maker

http://www.autobarn.net/per81878.html

Now don't get your panties all in a knot when you see 700* as the top temp. Thats the temp of the metal not exhaust gas. The manifold does not get to 700* even with 1500* exhaust gas running through it.