You will need a fuel pump and afpr at least to be safe.

Would I damage the engine or turbo if I decided not to get a new fuel pump and AFPR?

I'd like to get the turbo - then down the road (maybe 6 months or so) get some other upgrades to go with the new turbo.

You shouldent have any problems without fuel upgrades IF you get a quality boost gauge and mbc to keep tabs on your boost. Take it easy and you should be alright. A logger of some sort would also be a good idea.

The only thing you have to do is bolt the dang thing up. I dont know why they are telling you otherwise. I actually have the t28. I sent my t25 to Forced Performance for the t28 rebuild. I'm running on stock boost controller and stock fuel system with no problems. I haven't really noticed any difference...as I'm still running stock boost. It still spools up nice and fast below 3500. Whether or not you should get it is up to you. My t25 was on its way out so getting the t28 rebuild was logical for my goals. I only plan on going for around 275-300ish hp while I'm still in college. If you plan on wanting more then you might just want to hold out for a bigger turbo for awhile and work on getting your supporting mods in place.

gammey4 said:

You will need a fuel pump and afpr at least to be safe.

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Incorrect. If anything, you will need a logger to be safe. An AFPR is not needed unless you are having fuel overrun issues at idle and deceleration by using a big pump like the 255.

You don't need any mods with the FP Big T28 if you keep the boost down, it is a bolt on turbo. Above 15psi on the T25/T28, you'll need a blow off valve that doesn't leak like the stock 2G one before you start to need more fuel.

If you want to max out the turbo at about 22psi, you'll need 550cc injectors, 190pump (no AFPR needed with the 190), BOV, FMIC (maybe a small one), free exhaust etc.

If there is nothing wrong with your T25, I suggest that you bump the boost up to 15psi on the T25 and keep it until you get more supporting mods. At this point you need more supporting mods before you start to think about a bigger turbo. A bigger turbo should not be your first upgrade part. Check the Tech Guide for the 2G upgrade path.

If/when your T25 blows, if you still want the T28, send it to FP (www.forcedperformance.net) and get the T28 rebuild, it is about $300 cheaper than a new Big T28. There are better flowing bigger turbos out there for the price of the Big T28.

For the cost of the T28, you can get SBRs total package which includes the MHI Evo III 16G turbo, their SBR manifold and 2G install kit. And for the cost of the SBR total package you can get a 50trim setup. It all depends on your power goals.

Get the fuel pump(255) and afpr and upgrade your injectors six months down the road. There is no sense in upgrading the turbo and then cutting back on parts to run it at its full potential. Dont skimp on supporting parts when you a. have a new engine and b. will want to go faster because you know you can turn up the boost. For the money I would recomend a 14b, hell of a lot cheaper and you will make almost the same amount of power. And remember your fuel system in what limits your ability to make power first, then your turbo. Look at the 2g upgrade path item number 10 (maybe 11) is a fuel pump upgrade. And yes you will need an upgraded blow off valve but thats a given even with the stock turbo, they just suck.

I never understood why the t28 variations were so goddamn expensive. Even just having a b28 chra put into a stock housing is in 16g territory. When I first got into a dsm i wanted to get one untill I realized they are a waste of money.

Im just going to do all my supporting mods and step right up to a 50trim. No point in really even doing a 16g just to uprgrade it later.

The reason the t28 is a good turbo is because its "stock appearing" which keeps you in a lower race class.

If there is nothing wrong with your T25, I suggest that you bump the boost up to 15psi on the T25 and keep it until you get more supporting mods. At this point you need more supporting mods before you start to think about a bigger turbo. A bigger turbo should not be your first upgrade part. Check the Tech Guide for the 2G upgrade path.

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Ok, so I think I'm going to take advice from DGajre777. I'm going to wait on the new turbo for now since it works fine.

So, can I really bump up the boost to 15psi without changing anything else? I wouldn't want to damage my new engine!

I'm not even sure how to bump up the boost....I'm searching the forums now...

Thanks again.

You bump up the boost by using a MBC or electronic boost controller to delay the wastegate actuator from actuating.

Also if you are running the stock 2G BOV its going to leak like an SOB, you will be lucky to see much past 13 psi. Replace it with a 1G BOV.

a MBC is what you need to control the boost. Make sure you get an aftermarket boost gauge too.

Originally posted by: Bo0O0ostedDSM
a MBC is what you need to control the boost. Make sure you get an aftermarket boost gauge too.

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Ok, sounds good. I probably order the MBC and the boost gauge now and have it ready to install (and gauge pillar too.) I'll probably order 2 other gauges to install too. Any recommendations for the other two gauges? Oil pressure or Air/Fuel, or...

So, with the MBC and boost gauge I can get the car to 15psi. Will it wear down the turbo or the engine faster than normal by raising the boost???

Thanks!

Boost, A/F and Pyrometer is what I here is best

^^ He beat me too it , but same answer though.

Besides the boost gauge, I'd get a EGT gauge too. Then for the 3rd one maybe a A/F gauge, many will tell you they don't do anything but give you a light show, but I think they at least give you an idea of the A/F ratio. An oil pressure gauge wouldnt' be a bad choice either, as I like the preciseness of an aftermarket oil pressure gauge, vs. the stock one.

As far as gauges go, boost and air/fuel are a must! IMHO, having a third gauge isn't critical, but if I had to choose, I'd go with an EGT gauge.

The a/f gauges are worthless, period. The stock narrowband sensor does NOT give an accurate reading at WOT, which is the only place you need to know it. Get a boost gauge, you don't need an EGT. I've seen plenty of motors blown up without the EGT going too high. Boost and oil pressure would be good investments.

I agree with Keymaster, and I should have clarified on the A/F I was thinking an aftermarket wideband like AEM UEGO, or something similar.

You can also boost to about 14-15 psi safely for free. Check the free mods on how to remove the solenoid in the wastegate. Worked for me.

keymaster said:

The a/f gauges are worthless, period. The stock narrowband sensor does NOT give an accurate reading at WOT, which is the only place you need to know it.

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x2

I meant an air/fuel with a wideband sensor... just want to clear that up.

Ok, wasn't sure if you all meant wideband or not since you just said A/F.

If you have a wideband A/F gauge, you don't really need an EGT gauge. It is nice to have, but one overtakes the other. The purpose of the EGT gauge is to tell you how close you are to melting your pistons by running lean, this is what the wideband A/F gauge is for.

I would go boost gauge and EGT or boost gauge and gauge type wideband A/F like the AEM UEGO. Or you could just go with boost and volts to fill up the other hole, or a seperate gauge for boost and vacuum. It all comes to what you want.

And yes you can run to 15psi with no issues. ABOVE 15psi the stock 2G bov leaks, if you don't trust your 2G bov, do a boost leak test at 15psi and see if it leaks. If it does, replace it with a 1G or aftermarket blow off valve.

FYI, you can find a used 1G BOV for $25 on ebay. You'll need an adapter to mount it to your stock upper intercooler pipe, though. Since you're going to wait on the turbo, I'd recommend that you make up your mind on the long-term intercooler setup: if you're sticking with the sidemounted intercooler, then replace the upper intercooler pipe and be sure to order it with the 1G BOV flange. If you get a different BOV, make sure you know what kind of flange it uses and get that for the upper intercooler pipe. If you're going with a front-mounted intercooler in the future, then just buy the adapter from 2G to 1G, get the 1G BOV, and keep the crappy stock upper intercooler pipe (take your fuse box off - 3 bolts - and look at that thing!!).

The MBC can cost $25 if you get a bare-bones used one. You can easily dial it up to 15psi and not worry about anything on your new motor. I'm not so sure about it shortening the remaining life of your T25, though, so you might want to keep the boost a bit low until you are ready to drop the $800 on a new turbo setup; if your T25 dies a horrible death, your car will be parked until you get a new turbo installed.

As for gauges, if you're thinking long term, boost, oil pressure, and wideband A/F/lamda seem to be the most useful, but others commonly find volts useful as well. EGT is said to be of limited value by the gurus around here. The boost and oil pressure are cheap, but a wideband setup runs from $250 on up to $700 or more. It's a pain that it's one of the most valuable tuning gauges, but it's so damned expensive.

As for the B28 discussion, if you want a B28, don't blow your T25 or it may be totalled and not usable in by FP to upgrade to a B28. Some folks bash the B28 in favor for the evo3, but many point out that the B28 is a great turbo for fun city driving.

Other mods you can do in the meantime are completely dependent on your long-term goals, so you need to decide that before anyone here can do more than speculate. The only one I think you'll end up with regardless is a new filter (K&N FIPK gen 2 for example), but that might even be wrong if you intend to drop the stock 2g MAS.

Good info kenamond, a few comments though.

kenamond said:

The boost and oil pressure are cheap, but a wideband setup runs from $250 on up to $700 or more. It's a pain that it's one of the most valuable tuning gauges, but it's so damned expensive.

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Innovate LC1 wideband runs for $199 and you can track it with the New MAFT Gen 2 or log it with DSMLink, ECUPlus or the Zeitronix unit.

kenamond said:

As for the B28 discussion, if you want a B28, don't blow your T25 or it may be totalled and not usable in by FP to upgrade to a B28. Some folks bash the B28 in favor for the evo3, but many point out that the B28 is a great turbo for fun city driving.

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Feel free to blow the T25. FP can still reuse it, all they use is the compressor cover, turbine housing and the actuator. You should be using their 17psi actuator with the Big FP T28 anyway. Some more info here - http://linux.forcedperformance.net/...oduct_Code=TUDSMBig28&Category_Code=DSM-Turbo

kenamond said:

The only one I think you'll end up with regardless is a new filter (K&N FIPK gen 2 for example), but that might even be wrong if you intend to drop the stock 2g MAS.

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If you get a 3" filter and adapter from ebay you can get a www.Dejonpowerhouse.com intake pipe and reuse the same filter.

When my T25 went, the shaft broke, and the compressor wheel gouged out the compressor housing a bit (maybe a millimeter the whole way around). I couldn't get the housing off the center section due to no sur-clip pliers in my toolbox, so I don't know if it damaged the back section of the compressor housing as well. I know that they machine out the housing for the larger wheel, but I don't know if the back section is touched (and I don't know if the back side of the compressor wheel could even touch the housing or if it would just touch the center section pieces-parts).

Nevertheless, if he doesn't have the cash in hand to get the B28 when the T25 goes, then he may have to park his car for awhile. Mine sat for 2 months while I wrestled with vendors who sent wrong parts.