1G Road Course Cooling Nightmares... Meth Injection?

[360glitch]

I've been having lots of trouble keeping the DSM cool on the 90+ degree track days we've had lately. The car will heat up as much as I will let it and shows no signs of stopping at 225*. I've been doing everything I can to keep the front mount intercooler but I am losing the battle. Here's what I have so far:

- Punishment Racing radiator
- Stock main fan
- Aftermarket pusher fan
- Ducting that directs all airflow through the intercooler into the radiator
- RRE/Carbontrix hood vent (over the exhaust manifold / valve cover area)

I was prepared to pull the trigger on a SMIC setup but then in my last round of trying to come up with alternate ideas I came up with the idea of adding methanol/water injection purely for it's cooling benefits. Benefits of 50+ degree cooler intake temps, 250+ degree cooler combustion chamber, and 200+ degree cooler exhaust temps seem to be common place. Am I correct in thinking this might remedy my problem? Or am I looking in the wrong place? I am open to any and all ideas.

 

[BIGBLAZE79]

I was thinking about mounting an external smaller radiator where the stock intercooler is. What do you think of doing that?

 

[Scott McIntyre]

Ducting is what solved my overheating problem. But you can't half-ass it... To be fully effective you have to completely seal the space between the IC & rad, and between the FMIC & front fascia.

For example, I trimmed my stock plastic ducting and added some aluminum sheet when I first installed my FMIC, but I was still hitting 235ºF temps on track. Then I tried an aluminum rad, external oil cooler, lower t-stat, coolant flush, 100% water & Water Wetter, etc... No change. So I went back over the ducting again with foam insulation & aluminum duct tape and completely sealed everything up. End result was stable engine temps throughout 20 minute lapping sessions.

Mine is a 2G, but here's some pics of what I did to mine: FMIC Install pictures by scmcint - Photobucket

 

[Ludachris]

Keep in mind that if you ever want to run Time Trials with NASA you can't run meth or war injection... not sure about SCCA, but I think they're the same.

Do you have your exhaust manifold and O2 sensor coated, wrapped, or shielded? Are you using Water Wetter? What's your coolant/water mixture? You've obviously pulled the A/C by now, right?

The one thing that helped me that you haven't tried - a thicker than stock radiator. Mine is about 50% thicker than all the stock aluminum radiators you'll find on the market. It's made by PWR. My exhaust manifold is coated as well.

My future plans to include ducting on the inlet side as well as under the hood to help direct air up through the hood vent. I want to either get a FAL shroud w/fans or make my own and then fab up some ducting from the radiator to the hood.

I'm also planning to change the routing of my wastegate to recirc on the backside, closer to the block instead of in the front near the radiator. This should make more room for the ducting. I'll also be adding a couple of GVR-4 hood vents further up on the hood to allow more of the hot under hood air to escape. And then, if I need to drive the car on the street in hot weather, I'll just make my own A/C unit:
Portable 12V Air Conditioner --Cheap and easy!

 

[Scott McIntyre]

I forgot to add to my previous post that I ran water / meth injection when I was hitting 235ºF, so it did nothing for my overheating issues. Plus I was running a ceramic coated exhaust manifold along with the factory lower heat shield. And my aluminum rad was/is 50% thicker than stock, like Chis.

Try ducting / sealing first. It's cheap and easy!

 

[360glitch]

I was thinking about mounting an external smaller radiator where the stock intercooler is. What do you think of doing that?

Interested idea. It does sound like a decent one however I do not know of anyone that has done that sort of thing or how much it could/would help.

Ducting is what solved my overheating problem. But you can't half-ass it... To be fully effective you have to completely seal the space between the IC & rad, and between the FMIC & front fascia.

For example, I trimmed my stock plastic ducting and added some aluminum sheet when I first installed my FMIC, but I was still hitting 235ºF temps on track. Then I tried an aluminum rad, external oil cooler, lower t-stat, coolant flush, 100% water & Water Wetter, etc... No change. So I went back over the ducting again with foam insulation & aluminum duct tape and completely sealed everything up. End result was stable engine temps throughout 20 minute lapping sessions.

Mine is a 2G, but here's some pics of what I did to mine: FMIC Install pictures by scmcint - Photobucket

Thanks for tips. I recently did a lot of ducting as well by modifiying the stock plastic along with foam insulation and aluminum tape. I'm really not sure it could be improved upon, it is sealed on all sides.

Keep in mind that if you ever want to run Time Trials with NASA you can't run meth or war injection... not sure about SCCA, but I think they're the same.

Do you have your exhaust manifold and O2 sensor coated, wrapped, or shielded? Are you using Water Wetter? What's your coolant/water mixture? You've obviously pulled the A/C by now, right?

The one thing that helped me that you haven't tried - a thicker than stock radiator. Mine is about 50% thicker than all the stock aluminum radiators you'll find on the market. It's made by PWR. My exhaust manifold is coated as well.

My future plans to include ducting on the inlet side as well as under the hood to help direct air up through the hood vent. I want to either get a FAL shroud w/fans or make my own and then fab up some ducting from the radiator to the hood.

I'm also planning to change the routing of my wastegate to recirc on the backside, closer to the block instead of in the front near the radiator. This should make more room for the ducting. I'll also be adding a couple of GVR-4 hood vents further up on the hood to allow more of the hot under hood air to escape. And then, if I need to drive the car on the street in hot weather, I'll just make my own A/C unit:
Portable 12V Air Conditioner --Cheap and easy!

Thanks for the input. SCCA allows water but not meth. I've heard sometimes a water/meth setup can be ok'd on a case by case basis, likely only on the local level of events.

Our exhaust manifold and o2 sensor housing have not been coated, but they are shielded. Our manifold is a 2g stock manifold with a JM Fab heat shield over it, and the o2 housing (stock 1g) has the stock heat shielding on it. There currently is water wetter in the system, it has not seemed to help too much. I can't give you an exact percentage of the coolant mix, but I'd say it's easily 80+ percent water. AC is gone. I do not have the exact measurement of our radiator, but I really think that our Punishment Racing radiator is indeed a fair bit thicker than stock.

I forgot to add to my previous post that I ran water / meth injection when I was hitting 235ºF, so it did nothing for my overheating issues. Plus I was running a ceramic coated exhaust manifold along with the factory lower heat shield. And my aluminum rad was/is 50% thicker than stock, like Chis.

Try ducting / sealing first. It's cheap and easy!

In regards to the meth injection, did you have the car tuned for it, meaning were you using it to push more boost and timing? I'm wondering that if you were to hook it up and then not increase the load on the engine (with boost and timing) it would provide more overall cooling benefits than if you were to set it up and then use it to push the engine further. (it's main purpose for most)



Still playing around with ideas here. Thanks for the help guys.

 

[Scott McIntyre]

In regards to the meth injection, did you have the car tuned for it, meaning were you using it to push more boost and timing? I'm wondering that if you were to hook it up and then not increase the load on the engine (with boost and timing) it would provide more overall cooling benefits than if you were to set it up and then use it to push the engine further. (it's main purpose for most)

Good question! The car is actually tuned for 91 octane pump gas and no meth. AFR is 10.5:1 with timing zeroed across the board.

Why, you might ask? I just never got around to retuning it after adding the meth injection kit.

 

[360glitch]

Good question! The car is actually tuned for 91 octane pump gas and no meth. AFR is 10.5:1 with timing zeroed across the board.

Why, you might ask? I just never got around to retuning it after adding the meth injection kit.

Got it. Thanks for the reply.


At the moment I'm looking at having my exhaust manifold, turbine housing, and o2 housing ceramic coated. And then possibly wrapping the down pipe, at least the part of it that's "in" the engine bay. Currently I only have a heat shield on the manifold and o2 housing. Do you guys think this idea will possibly solve the problem, and is worth chancing $~200 on?

 

[Scott McIntyre]

I've had my FP Race Manifold, turbine housing, and PR O2 housing ceramic coated twice. Both times the coating has flaked off; and I'm still running relatively rich (i.e. lower EGTs).

I could be an isolated case, but in my experience ceramic coating turned out to be a waste of money. YMMV.

 

[360glitch]

I've had my FP Race Manifold, turbine housing, and PR O2 housing ceramic coated twice. Both times the coating has flaked off; and I'm still running relatively rich (i.e. lower EGTs).

I could be an isolated case, but in my experience ceramic coating turned out to be a waste of money. YMMV.

Hmm I will have to see if the guy that I'm looking at having do it will warranty the work. How long did yours last?

 

[Scott McIntyre]

Mine was / is warrantied for a year. I had it originally coated Spring of 2009 with the chrome-like finish:

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But it only took a few autox / HPDE's for it to turn dull and start to flake.

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So during the off-season I got it recoated under warranty, but this time had them use their black coating which is the highest-temp coating they have:

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But again, after only a couple autox / HPDE's it's flaked worse than the first coating. So at this point I give up. There's no point in getting them to do it a third time if it only lasts an event or two.

 

[360glitch]

Yikes ^^

Thanks for the info.

 

[#40Fan]

This is just a cardboard template, but here is the idea. Having this creates a low pressure behind the radiator and FMIC helping with air flow. Might be something to look into.

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[pboglio]

^^^Yes This mod worked to knock 3* off my coolant temps. Vehicle speed needs to be up around 40 mph to work, but it does indeed work very nicely. Something built with a pivoting spring loaded hinge or something to prevent getting destroyed on lowered cars would be nice too.

 

[lucuc0212]

You could try a i/c spray? It sounds like somethings wrong though like maybe you need to change your thermastat