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Road Course oil starvation

Posted by rival, Sep 6, 2017

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  1. rival

    rival Proven Member

    153
    66
    Joined Dec 12, 2004
    aiken, South Carolina
    I am looking for people who have had starvation issues on a road course or auto x and what has been done to remedy this... I know Magnus makes a dry sump kit, but are there any other options? is the Moroso oil pan a viable option?
     

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    My DSM:
    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Road Race Build

    GT30   manual
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  2. Ludachris

    Ludachris Founder & Zookeeper

    3,431
    401
    Joined Nov 12, 2001
    Roseville, California
    I didn't actually have starvation issues when I road raced - at least nothing noticeable, but I can tell you I was planning to go with the Moroso oil pan in order to help prevent it anyway. Figured it was cheap insurance. I had talked to a couple people about it at the time and was set on it, but then my build stalled out. I know RRE liked that pan too back in the day. Hope this helps some, even if it wasn't exactly what you were looking for.
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (sold)

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Road Race Build

    12.450 @ MPH
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  3. gsxitement

    gsxitement Proven Member

    547
    320
    Joined Dec 9, 2002
    staten island, New York
    I run the Moroso oil pan. Not that I was seeing starvation issues, but it was a preventative measure. You can also look into Accusump oil accumulators. It's a great system that protects against this issue.
     
    My DSM:
    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    11.930 @ 119.000 MPH
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    ceedawg likes this.
  4. slowwhite

    slowwhite Proven Member

    204
    77
    Joined Oct 27, 2013
    camden, South Carolina
    According to conversations I've had.

    I heard Andrew Brilliant once said the accusump system was to slow for him.

    But john freund runs the accu sump system with the Moroso pan and so far said he hasn't seen any issues.

    I personally run the moroso pan. And planned on installing the accusump setup once my driving skills progress. And I learn to corner at higher g forces.
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Road Race Build

    GT30   manual
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Road Race Build

    425 whp   354 lb/ft
    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX (sold)

    Drag Race Build

    GT35   manual
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  5. ec17pse

    ec17pse Freelancer

    2,974
    975
    Joined Nov 1, 2008
    London, Europe
    6 bolts have use of that pan but for a 7 bolt we got nothing. So im modifying my oil pan to baffle it and make it bigger volume! I would love to make a billet 7 bolt pan or even fabricate one but would need to get a flange made and tool to press the curve on the pump case, but for now just welding my oem pan will be fine
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Road Race Build

    175 whp   180.1 lb/ft
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  6. rival

    rival Proven Member

    153
    66
    Joined Dec 12, 2004
    aiken, South Carolina
    Yeah I was speaking with Andrew last night, he said the dry sump is the only way to go. He had made his own to an extent, anyone else have any experience with this? I just got the new motor in and tuned and am being on the cautious side, its also turning 8500rpm and making max power there, could rev higher but stopped for fear of starvation. I have done some auto x and track days and have a bad history of spun bearings afterword, but cant prove that it was from starvation.
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Road Race Build

    GT30   manual
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  7. ec17pse

    ec17pse Freelancer

    2,974
    975
    Joined Nov 1, 2008
    London, Europe
    While dry sump is the top many have raced with wet sumps and high G loads just fine! Its about proper oil control! Everything you can do must be done
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Road Race Build

    175 whp   180.1 lb/ft
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    Kryndon and gsxitement like this.
  8. SOADweskey

    SOADweskey Proven Member

    762
    92
    Joined Dec 11, 2006
    Jacksonville, Florida
    I mostly do autocross events, with a few track days here and there. I had no issues while running the stock oil pan but like most people on here that have a 6-bolt I put on the Moroso pan as a precaution. Of course I would love a dry sump system but I have trouble bringing myself to spend $5k+ on a car that blue books for under $3k.

    I don't normally log during autocross runs for fear of beating up my laptop, but I am looking at ways to mount it solidly so I can log my oil pressure and other parameters during a run. Especially now that I have upgraded my tires and the cornering forces are higher, but at least in autocross they are not sustained. My "super accurate" GoPro G meter showed a peak of 1.2Gs at Shootout (see attached screen shot) and I only expect that to get higher as I sort out some suspension issues.

    When I get some logs I will post them up with video of the runs so that oil pressure can be compared to what is happening on course.
    G Force.jpg
     
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX (sold)

    Street Build

    12.273 @ 113.55 MPH
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  9. ec17pse

    ec17pse Freelancer

    2,974
    975
    Joined Nov 1, 2008
    London, Europe
    When i spoke to some builders they say autoX is not as big an issue as road racing because the short turn durations where as road race can be longer, faster and more force so pulls oil away more, if you look at evo oil pans they make it flatter and have it where less oil escapes from the belly and it has a small half baffle inside too, not thats its not fool proof but compared to ours it certainly is a good step forward!
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Road Race Build

    175 whp   180.1 lb/ft
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  10. slowwhite

    slowwhite Proven Member

    204
    77
    Joined Oct 27, 2013
    camden, South Carolina
    When I first started this build I heard that out motors have issues when they sustain 1.5+ g forces. (Just a number I heard, no data to back up). So I asked my brother who races weekly if those forces are an issue? He responded 1.5+G's he sees regularly sustained. But this is what he does pretty much for a living.
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Road Race Build

    GT30   manual
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Road Race Build

    425 whp   354 lb/ft
    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX (sold)

    Drag Race Build

    GT35   manual
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  11. 2gmitsueclipse

    2gmitsueclipse DSM Wiseman

    2,024
    577
    Joined Jul 13, 2005
    Auburn Hills, Michigan
    For AutoX, I think a dry-sump is way over kill. As others have mentioned, it is about long sustained g-loads to the shallow side of the pan (like a road course). Most of the oiling choices should come down to the types of courses you would run most. The cheapest options are baffling added to the OE pan, Kiggly HLA, and adding extra oil. I would start there, ensuring that you are logging/keeping an eye on oil pressure. If drops are noticed on turns, look next to an Accusump setup and/or Moroso pan (6-bolt only). The only issue with the Accusump are mounting locations, capacity, and having enough time to refill before the next sustained high-g load.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
    My DSM:
    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Autocross Build

    T25   manual
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1990 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo

    Autocross Build

    14b   manual
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    Ludachris likes this.
  12. rival

    rival Proven Member

    153
    66
    Joined Dec 12, 2004
    aiken, South Carolina
    yeah I may look into a accusump for the time being and keep saving for a dry sump system... I am still on a 7 bolt so the moroso oil pan is not an option..
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Road Race Build

    GT30   manual
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  13. mountain_man

    mountain_man Supporting Member

    78
    28
    Joined Apr 18, 2007
    Long Beach, California
    I too am running a 7 bolt and have experienced this issue while hoofing it on back roads. The Kiggly HLA did a great job of alleviating this issue however, it's still not satisfactory.
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Road Race Build

    14b   manual
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  14. Black95TSIawd

    Black95TSIawd Proven Member

    1,627
    262
    Joined Jan 28, 2003
    Dirty, New Jersey
    I threw an Accusump in mine for safe measure. I know ACM was spinning bearings left and right years ago until he got one. Ileagle also spun a bearing on his car only after a few events. But, those are cars on super wide hoosier slicks. Not sure if its needed for street tires. But, for the $600 it cost, Its relatively cheap insurance.
     
    My DSM:
    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    184.4 whp   251.0 lb/ft
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX (sold)

    Drag Race Build

    20g   manual
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  15. slowwhite

    slowwhite Proven Member

    204
    77
    Joined Oct 27, 2013
    camden, South Carolina
    Also changing oil often or before events will help to make sure the viscosity hasn't broken down any that could other wise not allow it work as efficiently.
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Road Race Build

    GT30   manual
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Road Race Build

    425 whp   354 lb/ft
    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX (sold)

    Drag Race Build

    GT35   manual
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  16. rival

    rival Proven Member

    153
    66
    Joined Dec 12, 2004
    aiken, South Carolina
    yeah I have done two events and spun bearings both times... the last one was after a fresh build.... very costly to do that each event, especially when the crank, two rods, cams etc. are toast....
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Road Race Build

    GT30   manual
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  17. jakelandry

    jakelandry Proven Member

    772
    77
    Joined Oct 13, 2009
    Minden, Louisiana
    Cutting the stock pan flush with the flange and adding a 1" strip would not be hard at all and it would bring oil capacity up 2 quarts. Adding baffling wouldn't be any harder. I understand the moroso and dry sumps have their place but modifying a stock pan could effectively do the same thing.
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    11.410 @ 125.490 MPH
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    Archer Fabrications likes this.
  18. ec17pse

    ec17pse Freelancer

    2,974
    975
    Joined Nov 1, 2008
    London, Europe
    Then try welding that thin flange all the way around! You would warp it like a gooden and have huge gaps everywhere.

    Its not as easy as you think because its so thin!
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Road Race Build

    175 whp   180.1 lb/ft
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  19. ec17pse

    ec17pse Freelancer

    2,974
    975
    Joined Nov 1, 2008
    London, Europe
    I will grab a few pics of mine and what i have startd today as im at work working on the car soon. That way you can all see what im roughly doing
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Road Race Build

    175 whp   180.1 lb/ft
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  20. ec17pse

    ec17pse Freelancer

    2,974
    975
    Joined Nov 1, 2008
    London, Europe
    So here is what i have got so far! Its pretty simple to a point, bigger volume pushed towards the front and when cornering it helps keep more in the main pan, flow out of the belly will be limited and contained in a tube around the pickup! Hopefully this will at least assist in some way!

    IMG_20170909_140540.jpg IMG_20170909_140545.jpg IMG_20170909_140615.jpg IMG_20170909_140626.jpg
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Road Race Build

    175 whp   180.1 lb/ft
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  21. slowwhite

    slowwhite Proven Member

    204
    77
    Joined Oct 27, 2013
    camden, South Carolina
    This is a little off topic.

    But how can I log oil pressure using dsm link V3? Anyone have a write up?

    I have AEM digital oil pressure and oil temp sensors.
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Road Race Build

    GT30   manual
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Road Race Build

    425 whp   354 lb/ft
    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX (sold)

    Drag Race Build

    GT35   manual
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  22. ceedawg

    ceedawg Proven Member

    1,306
    207
    Joined Jun 2, 2004
    laurelton, New York
    All I can say is scary!,, Never thought this would be an issue now I’m concerned. Subscribed
     
    My DSM:
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  23. Scott McIntyre

    Scott McIntyre DSM Wiseman

    287
    38
    Joined Mar 15, 2002
    Halifax, NS, Canada
    IIRC, you can tap into the .5 - 4.5v analog output of an Autometer pressure transducer from their "Digital Stepper Motor Oil Pressure Gauge".

    https://www.autometer.com/2-1-16-oil-press-0-100-psi-fse-w-peak-warn.html

    May want to confirm on the ecmtuning forum first.
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    50trim   manual
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    1990TSIAWDTALON likes this.
  24. Ludachris

    Ludachris Founder & Zookeeper

    3,431
    401
    Joined Nov 12, 2001
    Roseville, California
    If a write-up does not exist, will the next person that does it please post a write up on it?
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (sold)

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Road Race Build

    12.450 @ MPH
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    slowwhite likes this.
  25. dragonov_elite

    dragonov_elite Proven Member

    223
    5
    Joined Jul 14, 2005
    La Crosse, Wisconsin
    I know this is an older thread but how has the progress been on your oil pan project/ accusump?
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    GT30   manual
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