bodily injury liability

[everbruin]

ignorance was bliss for me. then this quote from http://www.sportscarmarket.com/articles/archives/956 burst my bubble:

"Don't make the mistake of thinking that all is okay because you are willing to write off your car. Remember that insurance policies now frequently exclude coverage for bodily injuries to other persons, which can easily be a much greater liability."

i think i might stop hotlapping unless i can find an insurer that will cover bodily injury liability at the track =(. i was always ok w/ writing off my car at the track but naively assumed bodily injury liability would be covered.

 

[Ludachris]

Pretty scary. If anyone finds out more info on insurers that cover track events please do share it with us.

*** edit ****

Quote from our regional NASA Director about the NASA liability waiver that you sign at NASA events:

"Section 2 protects you as a participant against being sued by another participant. In the long run, they will always go for the deep pocket (i.e.
the insurance company) and would leave another participant alone unless you willfully did something (ran them off the track, hunted them down and drove over them in the paddock, etc)"

So I feel better now. Just make sure the events you track your car at has insurance and waivers like NASA that protect the driver.

*** /edit ***

 

[Greg Collier]

Yep..... I guess this will determine the MEN from the boys

 

[Ludachris]

The thing is, if you're just risking your car, that's fine. But risking losing your house or going to jail or being in debt forever because you injured someone accidentally and your insurance doesn't cover it is quite a bit more scary.

*** edit ****

Quote from our regional NASA Director about the NASA liability waiver that you sign at NASA events:

"Section 2 protects you as a participant against being sued by another participant. In the long run, they will always go for the deep pocket (i.e.
the insurance company) and would leave another participant alone unless you willfully did something (ran them off the track, hunted them down and drove over them in the paddock, etc)"

So I feel better now. Just make sure the events you track your car at has insurance and waivers like NASA that protect the driver.

*** /edit ***

 

[Greg Collier]

The thing is, if you're just risking your car, that's fine. But risking losing your house or going to jail or being in debt forever because you injured someone accidentally and your insurance doesn't cover it is quite a bit more scary.

Life is full of risk's... death is the only thing that's final. I love the smell of fresh coffee in the morning, but driving on the freeway scares the crap out of me!!

 

[underradar92]

Life is full of risk's... death is the only thing that's final. I love the smell of fresh coffee in the morning, but driving on the freeway scares the crap out of me!!

Agreed. I don't ride motorcycles on the street anymore, only off road and track days, 'cause it actually feels safer. WTF

(And it's more fun)

 

[Ludachris]

I'm not worried about wrecking my car or injuring myself. I'm perfectly fine with that risk.

I'm worried that Joe-Blow will sue me if I wreck into him and my insurance doesn't cover it. Then I lose everything or maybe go to jail - with a baby on the way that's something you have to worry about. That's the big issue that I think people are looking past. Forget about your car and yourself, if you hurt someone else you could be screwed for life.


*** edit ****

Quote from our regional NASA Director about the NASA liability waiver that you sign at NASA events:

"Section 2 protects you as a participant against being sued by another participant. In the long run, they will always go for the deep pocket (i.e.
the insurance company) and would leave another participant alone unless you willfully did something (ran them off the track, hunted them down and drove over them in the paddock, etc)"

So I feel better now. Just make sure the events you track your car at has insurance and waivers like NASA that protect the driver.

*** /edit ***

 

[Defiant]

Agreed. I don't ride motorcycles on the street anymore, only off road and track days, 'cause it actually feels safer.

Well, that didn't work out too well for DSMJim.

You'll undoubtedly find out that if you crash during a competition event, you had no coverage for it under most normal policies.

Then, there's fun companies like Geico, whose primary goal seems to be getting rid of customers by sending agents to meets and collecting license plate numbers and canceling any who are insured by them.

 

[Elvenhome21]

Thats why people should buy racing insurance for track days and race cars. Its not very cheap but it comes in handy if you don't trust your ability not to hit another car. I really don't care if I ball up the car on the track, or if I get a little banged up. Its all part of racing, which also brings me to another point. If you can't make a clean pass dont pass and give him room, if he spins in front of you it should not be your fault if you gave him as much room as you could. If the other guys trys passing you and he isn't going to back out, LIFT and let him pass anyway. A dsm might be slower than a corvette on the straights but we can beat them in the corners, either back off a get some distance where you aren't passing each other every corner or try to work out a rythym where you are in front for a section of twistys and let him out in front for the straights. I know its hard to back off when your going at it but on track days your only racing yourself not someone else.

 

[underradar92]

I'm not worried about wrecking my car or injuring myself. I'm perfectly fine with that risk.

I'm worried that Joe-Blow will sue me if I wreck into him and my insurance doesn't cover it. Then I lose everything or maybe go to jail - with a baby on the way that's something you have to worry about. That's the big issue that I think people are looking past. Forget about your car and yourself, if you hurt someone else you could be screwed for life.

That is reasonable, we track day types really need to not get too carried away, although I do understand that anything CAN happen. I leave a decent amount of room, Most of the time

You'll undoubtedly find out that if you crash during a competition event, you had no coverage for it under most normal policies.

Then, there's fun companies like Geico, whose primary goal seems to be getting rid of customers by sending agents to meets and collecting license plate numbers and canceling any who are insured by them.

Technically a track day isn't competition. I have NO intention of competing, as I've realised I'm a crappy driver a long time ago. Doesn't stop me from having fun.
Couldn't hurt to pull off our plates.

Thats why people should buy racing insurance for track days and race cars. Its not very cheap but it comes in handy if you don't trust your ability not to hit another car. I really don't care if I ball up the car on the track, or if I get a little banged up. Its all part of racing, which also brings me to another point. If you can't make a clean pass dont pass and give him room, if he spins in front of you it should not be your fault if you gave him as much room as you could. If the other guys trys passing you and he isn't going to back out, LIFT and let him pass anyway. A dsm might be slower than a corvette on the straights but we can beat them in the corners, either back off a get some distance where you aren't passing each other every corner or try to work out a rythym where you are in front for a section of twistys and let him out in front for the straights. I know its hard to back off when your going at it but on track days your only racing yourself not someone else.

Yes, lets be as carefull as possible out there. I bought the 50 trim for those pesky Vette boys.

 

[Greg Collier]

Can’t we all just be friends?

 

[1LE]

Yes, lets be as carefull as possible out there. I bought the 50 trim for those pesky Vette boys.

A 16g is enough to take care of the older ones (C4) that come out around here Unfortunately, they kill me in the corners... BUT, I can take them in the straights!

 

[Defiant]

Technically a track day isn't competition. I have NO intention of competing, as I've realised I'm a crappy driver a long time ago. Doesn't stop me from having fun.

Now, do you think for a second your insurance company is going to recognize a distinction?

 

[Elvenhome21]

Some of the nasa stuff is covered under insurance because it is considered a driving school then. I think HPDE classes, I was talking to a vette guy last year at mfba and he was an instructor and well educated so I think he was probably correct.

 

[1LE]

You can be sued for any silly little thing now, and essentially lose everything for no reason. The options are to avoid all risk and hope that somebody doesn't sue you for no reason and win, or you can take calculated risks and go out and enjoy life. Obviously staying home and doing nothing improves your odds of a prosperous retirement, but hey, you might die before then anyways

Not everyone will have the same answer, but everyone needs to be informed so that each can make a decision they can live with...

 

[Elvenhome21]

Its freakin stupid with the sueing bull. A person can break into your home, cut himself on something INSIDE your home, and he can sue YOU for getting cut eventhough he was at fault for breaking in and entering.

 

[Caithness]

Our nation has become a joke amongst the rest of the people of the world, and the total corruption of our legal system into a get-rich-quick scheme for litigious scumbags is one big part of it. This is just another example of this corruption.

How much is liability coverage for an amateur racer? If it's too expensive, there's nothing to do but to press on and worry about any legal troubles if it ever becomes a problem.

 

[Greg Collier]

I've seen two fatalities in the last two year at Button Willow Race Park in NASA. I'm not going to go into the causes of these accidents, but I have yet to see or hear about any law suit(s). And this is in California were you get sued if the coffee is to hot at a fast food restaurant...[Check the facts on that suit before castigating it. It was much more than "hot" coffee, even factoring in how stupid she was to carry it in her lap.]

Whatareyagonnado?

 

[Elvenhome21]

I think racing insurance for a $20,000 car is $1000-1500 for 6 months.

 

[everbruin]

the carrera gt suit is in CA. i also heard of a recent audi event lawsuit somewhere...

 

[Ludachris]

Quote from our regional NASA Director about the NASA liability waiver that you sign at NASA events:

"Section 2 protects you as a participant against being sued by another participant. In the long run, they will always go for the deep pocket (i.e.
the insurance company) and would leave another participant alone unless you willfully did something (ran them off the track, hunted them down and drove over them in the paddock, etc)"

So I feel better now. Just make sure the events you track your car at has insurance and waivers like NASA that protect the driver.

 

[Ludachris]

Some of the nasa stuff is covered under insurance because it is considered a driving school then. I think HPDE classes, I was talking to a vette guy last year at mfba and he was an instructor and well educated so I think he was probably correct.

No, most insurers won't cover you if they specify that you will not be covered if the accident takes place on a "a racing surface". That's the whole point of the article - most insurance companies are no longer covering drivers for "driver education" events. They're working their way out of any coverage for any closed circuit event.

It sucks that our car won't be covered at the track anymore but at least if you participate at a NASA event their waiver protects you as a driver from being sued by another driver (unless you do something malicious). So make sure the club events you participate in have good insurance and waiver forms to protect you like NASA does.

 

[underradar92]

It's good to know a lot of the things pointed out in this thread, knowing what you are up against allows a more informed decision. Thanks to the OP.

It rather bites that our society has so many people who cannot assume responsibility for their decisions and force others to shoulder that responsibility.

Life is hard. Life is even harder when you are stupid. John Wayne.

Maybe we all should tie kerosene soaked rags around our ankles, so ants can't crawl up our legs ant bite us on our candy a$$es. Dale Earnhardt.

 

[underradar92]

Now, do you think for a second your insurance company is going to recognize a distinction?

True enough, insurance companies seem to be in the business of collecting money, and not insuring anything.

I am however, liking NASA more and more all the time. v v v v

 

[everbruin]

i just found out about this nasa benefit!
Under the Membership heading at
http://www.nasaproracing.com/aboutnasa/index.html is the text
"While participating at events, all NASA members are covered by an
extensive insurance policy, which includes General Liability,
Accidental Death and Dismemberment, and Excess Medical coverage."