SAFC2 ---> Bad Karman readings

[gir]

I'm tring to tune a new SAFC 2 on my galant. It's a 4g64 and I'm pretty sure that I've got it hooked up properly. What is happening is that the sensor is reporting really really high karman readings all of a sudden. At idle for example I will get a reading of 1000 or 2000 hz for maybe a half second. This will force teh AFC to compensate and when it does the motor bogs and or dies due to huge amounts of gas getting thrown in there. I checked on club3g's webpage since they run 4g64's as well and the best they could offer was to contact RRE. I did this and he suggested a filter as they do on some 3g cars. Dougs dyno power suggested the following:

Assuming you have the mass air connections of the AFC on the correct mas air wire to the ECU. What color of mass air wires of the AFC harness did you use? You have to use the yellow and white wires. The Apex directions are incorrect in saying to use the pink and orange, those wires are for a twin mass air meter system in which all four would be used. For a single mass air the white and yellow must be used.
Otherwise its possible you have a bad ground, or bad connection itself with the cars stock mass air wire going to the ECU.



I'm not too sure which to do. As far as ANY DSM webpage on AFCs goes, I have seen them always use pink and orange wires for AFCs. Any suggestions?

 

[ASZRAEL1266]

did you check to make sure it is on the right channel
when my frient first hooked his up it was giving some funky readings he had it set on the wrong channel

 

[gir]

Channel meaning the actual wire? I'm getting karman data and the wire was the one I was told to tap into from thegalantcenter.com before they went down. The karman data seems to be accurate since at idle it'll read anywhere from 30 - 50 hz which is normal and slammed out it'll peak up to around 1000 hz.

 

[gir]

Adding onto this, I have now tried a few more things.

I am currently troubleshooting an AFC problem in a 97 4g64 galant (distributored 2g spyder motor). My karman readings are cyclically coming upward of 1000 Hz at idle for a brief moment then dropping to around 45 Hz. This sudden peak is causing the ECU to attempt compensation for the air, the motor then bogs. Eventually, the car will die.

The problem is similar to the NABR post in this thread, but it occurs at idle. NABR post I have searched prior to posting without success in finding an answer.

I emailed Tony Kan of club 3g since he seemed to have more information on 4g64 cars and AFCs. His response is as follows:

Hi Chase,

The symptoms sounds alot like what I experienced when I installed the SAFC without a fix. I know on the 3G application if you connect the RPM signal from the SAFC straight to the distributer, you'd get these huge voltage spikes that would bleed through the karmen signal and cause the car to sputter and sometimes even die. The only way to know for sure is to put the signal on a scope and check the voltage readings on the tap you're using the RPM signal. I'm not all that familiar with the 4G64 so don't take what I say as fact, I'm merely speculating. Have you tried contacting Road Race Engineering? Mike W. would probably know a thing or two about the Galant.

Good Luck
Tony


I have contacted Road Race following this email. Mike W. responded as follows:

Try making and installing a filter for the rpm like they do with the 3G Eclipses. Or try to find a better place to get the rpm signal. Search around on the club 3G site for more info on the problems with the AFC on 3G cars. It is only on the V-6s. We don't find the AFC very useful on NT Mitsubishis so we have not run into your problem on one.

Mike W

I also emailed Doug's Dyno Power to see what they would say; their response is as follows:

Assuming you have the mass air connections of the AFC on the correct mas air wire to the ECU. What color of mass air wires of the AFC harness did you
use? You have to use the yellow and white wires. The Apex directions are incorrect in saying to use the pink and orange, those wires are for a twin mass air meter system in which all four would be used. For a single mass air the white and yellow must be used. Otherwise its possible you have a bad ground, or bad connection itself with
the cars stock mass air wire going to the ECU.


Finally, I have also emailed all of barnonemotorsports.com and asked if anyone would know of how to fix this. They specifically deal in hybrid motors, and I felt they would have some knowledge in fixing this. I only received one response.

Sorry Chase, but my real expertise is wrenchin, so I can't be of much
help here.

My best advice would be to remove all crimped connections, and using all
soldered joints try again to follow RREs installation (wiring)
connections. Soldered (and heat shrink sleeved) joints will always yield
a better and more consistant signal than will any type of crimped
connection. If you are not well versed in soldering techniques, then
outside (local) assistance will be the best route to insure good wiring
connections.

I'll pass this on to another local guy whose expertise is more in line
with your problem & hopefully he can be of more assistance.

Kim Steele
bar none motorsports
[email protected]

I have recently also purchased a voltmeter. I put the voltmeter to the karman line and received a voltage of 3 volts when I bypass the AFC and run only my stock ECU. When I run my AFC line patched in, I receive a voltage of 2.5 ~ 2.7 V. I asked the electrical engineers at my work they believe somehow I am impeding the current and causing the drop in voltage.

I have visited forced induction racing, the shop where I purchased my AFC at, and asked Travis to have a look at it. He mainly deals with SR motored sentras which have a hot-wire mas setup. Unfortunately Travis had no new suggestions to offer. He cycled through all my settings to make sure they were consistent with a NA motor. He even swapped AFCs. He gave up eventually and said he is not sure of the exact problem.

I have tried most of the suggested options with no success. I have not tried the 3g eclipse fix yet. No 7th generation galants(94-98) have had any problems such as this with an AFC install before.

The Doug's dyno power suggestion is completely wrong. That is the only certain answer I have come to in my testing.

Any suggestions at all are quite welcome

I have soldered the connections as of last night. I still get some spiking of the karman frequency, but it is not as severe as before. It is still unacceptable to drive on, but things have improved. I will post a few pictures of my actual AFC graphs whenever I can borrow a camera and get those images uploaded.

I believe these still work, you can check they are the AFC videos,

http://paperstreetsoap.no-ip.org/videos/



I have not had any success in getting my car to consistently run well. I have swapped airflow meters with my neighbor's car. It runs a little better, but not much better than before. The connections are good and have been rewired about 5 times now. I've also tapped my tach wire from behind my gauge bezel and the problems still persist. I was told to post here to find help. If anyone can please post any type of suggestion.

 

[fantasykills]

Hello,

I have a mitsubishi galant 2000 Es automatic trans / Engine code - 4g64 / I'm trying to hook up a safc but I need a wiring diagram... because its kind of hard to find. other diagram for other cars yes its available. but this one ...hard to find. I'll be posting pictures later... I have upgraded the whole fuel line system... equiped.. with nitrous,purge,440cc injectors,customized fuel rail,zex spark plugs,vertical doors,coillovers much more.. Pls. let me know asap... and trying to disable my engine light? coz i have change the whole exhaust pipe line... o2 simulator..not working properly.. thanks... email at: [email protected]

ray,